Common Misconceptions Of Hyper-Grace

[PeterJens]

By following this test.

1. Catholics are saved
2. Pharisees were saved (even though they denied Christ, They through people out of their synogogs, or churhces, who sinned.
3. All religious churches who will cast people out because they commit certain sins, whether they have the right gospel or not. is the correct church.
Shoot. that must means muslims and other religions are ok to. because they do the same thing..

what is it that makes the true christian church a true church? Accordin gto your standard, we can never know who that church is.

Dear reader, ofcourse there are many other tests you could apply.

Now it is no defence to say some different faiths or groups pass this.

The defence is we do not have to pass this test because .....

In the world of negative is evil, you do not have to answer the question only point out a negative view of it.
The positive view is a church upholding righteousness is pointing to Jesus and His sacrifice, while those holding up sin are pointing to failure and defeat.

There are churches in Canada that are actually atheist while all like the ceremonies want to continue meeting and saying the words though they no longer believe them. So you will find all variations in the church, but to follow Jesus you need to pass some specific criteria.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear reader, ofcourse there are many other tests you could apply.

Now it is no defence to say some different faiths or groups pass this.

The defence is we do not have to pass this test because .....

In the world of negative is evil, you do not have to answer the question only point out a negative view of it.
The positive view is a church upholding righteousness is pointing to Jesus and His sacrifice, while those holding up sin are pointing to failure and defeat.

There are churches in Canada that are actually atheist while all like the ceremonies want to continue meeting and saying the words though they no longer believe them. So you will find all variations in the church, but to follow Jesus you need to pass some specific criteria.

dear reader. this is called hiding from the truth.

This poster made it clear, in his own words.

One simple test of a church following Jesus

And I proved, that if this is the only simple test one needs, It will never show who is the true church,, And all he can do is belittle the message which proved him wrong, and not admit his mistake..

God said he would take the proud to his knees, Maybe one day, people like peter here will realise this.

 

[PeterJens]

dear reader. this is called hiding from the truth.

Dear reader - EG is right. I was saying in the application of testing a "hyper-grace" church is to apply this test.

Now if a church fails this test, is it following Jesus?

Test

If someone is in sin, real sin, obvious clear sin, see how the church reacts if they are confronted.
If you are thrown out of the church, you know they are following sin and approving sinful behaviour.

Everytime we share about righteousness, the cry is we accept walking in righteousness is the way.
But when it comes to reality, even God is not allowed to convict of sin.

Now please tell me, is this a false test or should every church following Jesus pass?

If the answer is every church, then hyper-grace churches have just failed by their own theology and declared beliefs.

Now I am being as fair as anyone can be about the bar or measure of scripture.
But this is so sensitive EG has to avoid the question because if he accepts the proposition his whole position collapses.

I saw a rebuttal on the internet about another similar test list.
It again was a bitter twisted response and did not address the basic righteousness/sin issue within the body.

There is no way back from this place for them.

 

[Magenta]

I proved, that if this is the only simple test one needs, It will never show who is the true church,,

What you quoted, though, said one simple test, not the only simple test.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What you quoted, though, said one simple test, not the only simple test.

does it matter?

It is not even a simple test. Because I just proved many false churches would do this also.

Simple means it is a way to simply see who was a real church vs a false church, so it is not so simple is it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear reader - EG is right. I was saying in the application of testing a "hyper-grace" church is to apply this test.

Now if a church fails this test, is it following Jesus?

Test

If someone is in sin, real sin, obvious clear sin, see how the church reacts if they are confronted.
If you are thrown out of the church, you know they are following sin and approving sinful behaviour.

Everytime we share about righteousness, the cry is we accept walking in righteousness is the way.
But when it comes to reality, even God is not allowed to convict of sin.

Now please tell me, is this a false test or should every church following Jesus pass?

We should follow the word. What does the word say.

1. You see a brother in sin confront him,
2. If he continues in that sin, Take a witness
3. If he continues, Confront him in front of the church, If he still refuses to repent, Ask him to leave and not come back until he repents.

Now here is the part that you can not get.

1. Hyper grace churches do this (Mine does it,, I have had a few close brothers asked to leave.. One of them came back, One is still gone, bit 99.9 percent of the time, it does not get to that point because most people leave before we get to point three.. or they repent..and never get there..
2. Legalistic churches teach this, Does it prove they are a gtrue church?
3. Other world religions will have some form of this, and kick people who do certain sins out.

so we see, this is not a very good test at all.. There are FAR FAR greater tests to use than this to test who is a true church as apposed to a false church. this one is weak.

If the answer is every church, then hyper-grace churches have just failed by their own theology and declared beliefs.

No Because Hyper Grace does not teach licentiousness.

But you can never see this, Because you have it in your head YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT WE BELIEVE, even though you have been proven over and over to be wrong about that very point.

Now I am being as fair as anyone can be about the bar or measure of scripture.
But this is so sensitive EG has to avoid the question because if he accepts the proposition his whole position collapses.

I saw a rebuttal on the internet about another similar test list.
It again was a bitter twisted response and did not address the basic righteousness/sin issue within the body.

There is no way back from this place for them.

Dude, you just totally destroyed yourself. Because twice now I tried to divert your attention to the truth, and twice now, you have attaxked me and made false accusations against me. Saying myself, or my church would not do the very thing you claim we would never do. Or any other church of Christ for that matter..

If you want to continue your lies about what we teach, You will continue to be exposed for what you are.

 

[Magenta]

does it matter?

Of course it matters. You proved something wrong that was not even put on the table for consideration, and claim victory. You need at the very least to deal with what is said, instead of changing it and working with your alteration.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Of course it matters. You proved something wrong that was not even put on the table for consideration, and claim victory. You need at the very least to deal with what is said, instead of changing it and working with your alteration.

No, I did not do what you said, I was proven right either way..

I proved my point a few times now.. It does not matter if what he said was th eonly test or not. IT IS NOT A SIMPLE TEST, IT FAILS TO TEST ANYTHING. BECAUSE THE WORLD CHURCHES DO THE SAME THING.. And HYPER GRACE CHURCHES DO THEM ALSO..

and I do not boast of things, Why would I boast of the fact someone is not led to Christ by what I say? You do not know me at all..

 

[Magenta]

No, I did not do what you said, I was proven right either way..

I proved my point a few times now.. It does not matter if what he said was th eonly test or not. IT IS NOT A SIMPLE TEST, IT FAILS TO TEST ANYTHING. BECAUSE THE WORLD CHURCHES DO THE SAME THING.. And HYPER GRACE CHURCHES DO THEM ALSO..

and I do not boast of things, Why would I boast of the fact someone is not led to Christ by what I say? You do not know me at all..

Here you have done it again. You claim I don't know you at all after you defend the fact that you don't boast when that was not even something I said. You read something in and defend against that instead of what was actually said, and you have claimed victory once again, saying it doesn't even matter.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here you have done it again. You claim I don't know you at all after you defend the fact that you don't boast when that was not even something I said. You read something in and defend against that instead of what was actually said, and you have claimed victory once again, saying it doesn't even matter.

There is no discussing anything with you, It is no wonder people get so frustrating.

1. Was I wrong in my assumption that it is not a simple test?
2. Was I wrong in my knowledge that hyper grace churches would not do what he said we would do?
3. Was I wrong in saying it does not matter which way he meant?

 

[PeterJens]

No, I did not do what you said, I was proven right either way..

EG you proved you cannot answer logically.

Now what you have demonstrated is hyper-grace churches themselves pick and choose their theology.
It is also what I suspected, what you actually behave differentely to what you believe.

This is always the problem with constructed theology that most of a congregation do not understand or agree with.
So you proved your church is not that far down this heretical path.

You also have your own agenda and do not want to discuss. But I know you very well, and expected nothing more from you.

And yes you won everything, if it makes you feel better, but not in the real world, because you have to engage to win a point or even to really make one. But this obviously goes somewhat above your head.

 

[Jimbone]

Here you have done it again. You claim I don't know you at all after you defend the fact that you don't boast when that was not even something I said. You read something in and defend against that instead of what was actually said, and you have claimed victory once again, saying it doesn't even matter.

That's funny, boast that "I was right", the say "I don't boast", very funny.

 

[Magenta]

There is no discussing anything with you, It is no wonder people get so frustrating.

Yes, three posts, and you are fed up, because a simple error was pointed out to you.

 

[gb9]

EG you proved you cannot answer logically.

Now what you have demonstrated is hyper-grace churches themselves pick and choose their theology.
It is also what I suspected, what you actually behave differentely to what you believe.

This is always the problem with constructed theology that most of a congregation do not understand or agree with.
So you proved your church is not that far down this heretical path.

You also have your own agenda and do not want to discuss. But I know you very well, and expected nothing more from you.

And yes you won everything, if it makes you feel better, but not in the real world, because you have to engage to win a point or even to really make one. But this obviously goes somewhat above your head.

if the agenda is teaching about grace salvation, then he does. and so do I and others. YOUR agenda is to pump up works and self-effort. and we see right through it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, three posts, and you are fed up, because a simple error was pointed out to you.

No..

I am fed up because you continuously nit pick what people say, and go to war over them on one point.

Unstead of saying, yes, everything you said here but this one point, I agree,, Can we speak to this point. (which myself and others have done many many times)

You point to that one point, and go to war at that one point, and totally ignore everything else the person said.. and go to war on that one little point, whcih makes everything else the person said null and void..

I see you do it alot. to many people. and I can not figure out why.

You said I was wrong in that one point,

I asked, According to everything else I said, DID IT MATTER..(meaning I admitted to what you said, but asked the question, did it matter)

yet all you want to do is focus on the one point, (even though I ADMITTED TO WHAT YOU SAID) AND KEEP AT IT OVER AND OVER..

 

[PeterJens]

Yes, three posts, and you are fed up, because a simple error was pointed out to you.

Willie-T talked about this anger that rises in him.

The simple thing they seem to miss is we write what we actually believe and follow. All the responses come back we are legalists, when I do not see one here at all.

But then they have redefined the term legalist so it means something different to them than us.

I remember at school when you use language you have to be sensitive to use words in the way your audience uses them.
They actively change the meaning of words, use them and expect us to understand what they mean.
When we respond they read in their meanings and into scripture so it is like ships passing in the night.

The unfortunate thing it is their fault, because they make zero effort to express what they mean because it would have to make sense, which it only does in this changed meaning world. I think this is the definition of a delusion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG you proved you cannot answer logically.

Now what you have demonstrated is hyper-grace churches themselves pick and choose their theology.

Oh I did, Can you please put your words to the test by proving I said this? Where did I ever claim any church can pick and chose their theology? Yet again, all you have is attack and false truths..

Well it is time to back your claims.. Prove I said that..

It is also what I suspected, what you actually behave differentely to what you believe.

Again, Prove it, Where did I say what you claim I said?? I am waiting

This is always the problem with constructed theology that most of a congregation do not understand or agree with.
So you proved your church is not that far down this heretical path.

Ok, So my church following the biblical prescribed form of disicpline is heresy? Now I have heard everything.

Maybe you misunderstood when I said most do not get to the final form of discipline (being confronted by the whole congregation) because people repent before they get to that point, and thought we just skipped the third point> well if thats the case, you misread me, and I forgive you.


otherwise, please prove your point

You also have your own agenda and do not want to discuss. But I know you very well, and expected nothing more from you.

strawman.

Please show me where I said what you claimed I said. I am sick of these useless religious arguiments, which do nothing to prove your point.

And yes you won everything, if it makes you feel better, but not in the real world, because you have to engage to win a point or even to really make one. But this obviously goes somewhat above your head.

No, I will never win anything, Only God gets the glory,

and your still saying lies about me, and being a false accuser. so how could I win?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Willie-T talked about this anger that rises in him.

The simple thing they seem to miss is we write what we actually believe and follow. All the responses come back we are legalists, when I do not see one here at all.

But then they have redefined the term legalist so it means something different to them than us.

I remember at school when you use language you have to be sensitive to use words in the way your audience uses them.
They actively change the meaning of words, use them and expect us to understand what they mean.
When we respond they read in their meanings and into scripture so it is like ships passing in the night.

The unfortunate thing it is their fault, because they make zero effort to express what they mean because it would have to make sense, which it only does in this changed meaning world. I think this is the definition of a delusion.

legalism.

If I can lose salvation, I must earn it.

Legalism.

There is no other definition, Legalism is a term which describes a church, a doctrine, or a group of people who proclaim that Gods gift is only given to those who do certain works in order to obtain that gift.

which is what you teach.

I have always maintained the same defenition, I have never wavered, so yet again, you are proven a liar.

 

[PeterJens]

legalism.
If I can lose salvation, I must earn it.
Legalism.
There is no other definition, Legalism is a term which describes a church, a doctrine, or a group of people who proclaim that Gods gift is only given to those who do certain works in order to obtain that gift.
which is what you teach.
I have always maintained the same defenition, I have never wavered, so yet again, you are proven a liar.

As I teach we are saved through belief in Jesus, either I am lying that I teach this or you are lying.
We have at length defined you believe you have arrived at new birth, whereas I say you need to be sanctified, which is why the believer agreed to follow.

Now legalism means following rules that justify you. As I do not do this I am not a legalist.
You define legalism as saying there are any rules related to behaviour and morality.

Now the concept you propose is you can be given a gift, but it cannot be taken back.

At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
Matt 18:26-27

Jesus in this parable the servant was forgiven, but the servant did not forgive a fellow servant.
The master heared and then threw him into prison for the debt he had previously been forgiven.

Behaviour matters, but not in your gospel.

Simple idea, but you are ignoring Jesus by holding your position on faith.

 

[PeterJens]

Dear reader, I am disappointed. The critisms are plain and simple, but they all refuse to answer them.

They know the power of their half message, their slander and false accusations, their stand against the word of God, and then the refuse to engage in the real argument.

Unfortunately I do not expect this behaviour from brothers and sisters in the Lord but in the deceived.
And if they make us into enemies and slander us, what hope is there for unbelievers?