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You may not realise this but in London there is totally multi-ethnic mix of people. My daughters have friends who are from "muslim" families, who I also have contact with. Now to put most of these people under a label of terrorism just because of a cultural link is biggotry. Now if we were at war with "islam" in a miltary sense, then ok.
But Islam as an idiology loves possession of innocent victims, and polarize the discussion. The discussion is we are humans who need integrity and love irrespective of faith or culture. Now Trumps words jolt against this reality.
So a large part of society here went what? Isis is raising all the real issues, and the cultural issues of large numbers of syrian men in German cities. But it needs careful handling, without causing social splits.
Now the issue has not resolved, but there are lots of similar reactions within the US. Thankfully only attitudes are being expressed which is healthy. How simple Islamic thought is handled down the road is a rocky one, but Islam as a faith is in trouble, because it leaps to insane faith from social dislocation. If we can keep the conversation going there is hope.
But Islam as an idiology loves possession of innocent victims, and polarize the discussion. The discussion is we are humans who need integrity and love irrespective of faith or culture. Now Trumps words jolt against this reality.
So a large part of society here went what? Isis is raising all the real issues, and the cultural issues of large numbers of syrian men in German cities. But it needs careful handling, without causing social splits.
Now the issue has not resolved, but there are lots of similar reactions within the US. Thankfully only attitudes are being expressed which is healthy. How simple Islamic thought is handled down the road is a rocky one, but Islam as a faith is in trouble, because it leaps to insane faith from social dislocation. If we can keep the conversation going there is hope.
M
Yea well things in England should stay in England ..if you guys want to turn your culture over to another culture ..that's on you...but don't pretend that represents some high moral idea...its simply insane and its proving to be destructive .. As far as Trumps views ..they represent the majority of Americans ..and when the UK parliament insults trump for his opinions..they insult the majority of the people in this nation. Call it bigotry or whatever ...but the muslim culture is horrible and has proven itself to be destructive to all who embrace it. We (Americans) want folks that want to come and conform to our society and culture...if you don't want that? don't try to come here... its OUR country and OUR culture ...OUR society.
A bit back on topic. Personally I favor Trump's views particularly on islam and would not want him banned from Britain, but it's fair for Britain to discuss what they want about Trump especially in regards to him coming to Britain lol. Then of course I somewhat agree with the Brits on the Litvinenko case, though I thinks it inconclusive whether or not Putin himself involved in that. Could be, but also could be anything from their KGB factions to their mafia stuff, all sorts of intra- Russian enemies that guy and just in general Russian exiles tend to have as most of them tend to be somewhat wealthy billionaires or elites and oligarchs or former kgb/fsb agents. Not cool for Russians to assassinate dude in exile on British soil though.
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I have a short response. Islam claims this group of people over here. Now think about the idea of claims. It is all propoganda. The society runs like any society with its problems, corruption, justice, culture. But it gets labels which for muslim society looses the reality and creates a false image even to the people themselves.
If you attack the label, you make it real, when it is just that, a label. You need to bring justice, love, truth, reality to the everyday persons experience, so they have real hope for their future, they know they are cared for and they matter.
I could go deeper into an analysis, but the people in these cultures need to own their own societies, behaviour and injustice. We can help them do that by talking about what ordinary people can expect from their lives, how justice can become real, how simple civil administration works without corruption, how disputes are resolved using registers, legislation, courts. Women need a real voice, love needs to matter. Maybe this is all alien ideas to you, but people are dying because these ideas and realities are not in place. It sounds to me like you want the insular solution, man the battlements against the raging hordes...
If you attack the label, you make it real, when it is just that, a label. You need to bring justice, love, truth, reality to the everyday persons experience, so they have real hope for their future, they know they are cared for and they matter.
I could go deeper into an analysis, but the people in these cultures need to own their own societies, behaviour and injustice. We can help them do that by talking about what ordinary people can expect from their lives, how justice can become real, how simple civil administration works without corruption, how disputes are resolved using registers, legislation, courts. Women need a real voice, love needs to matter. Maybe this is all alien ideas to you, but people are dying because these ideas and realities are not in place. It sounds to me like you want the insular solution, man the battlements against the raging hordes...
M
Well that's part of the point the UK needs the USA much more than we need the UK... Im sure if not for American money the whole socialized system over there would collapse ... If the more than 50% that agreed with trump decided to cause the UK harm..they could .... I for one would have been for strong sanctions against the UK if they had passed some sort of attack upon Trump .... as it is they have harmed themselves with millions of Americans
M
Look man....you can believe that you can change the muslim culture with all that hippie nonsense if you want? It has not worked, it will not work ... Folks who are in touch with reality and understand history know that .. Soon your cities will be burning and all these muslims you have allowed in will be killing your people as we already see is happening ... So no your liberal ideas are not based in reality and are very destructive ... Trump is right
M
The Royal "we, us ours" does make me smile a bit.
I should think very few people on here have stepped
inside the Whitehouse or the Houses of Parliment, let
alone are among the law makers of any land.
The truth is that 99.9999999999999999% of people are
governed by 0.000000000000001% of the people or
thereabouts; and nobody on CC is actually in any position
to ban anyone from any country.
So what is everyone talking about!
Why take ownership or feel offended or take insult over
something that as an individual you have neither done, said
or actioned.
Just for the record I am an individual I am not "the UK"
Anyway..... who is Trump
.
I should think very few people on here have stepped
inside the Whitehouse or the Houses of Parliment, let
alone are among the law makers of any land.
The truth is that 99.9999999999999999% of people are
governed by 0.000000000000001% of the people or
thereabouts; and nobody on CC is actually in any position
to ban anyone from any country.
So what is everyone talking about!
Why take ownership or feel offended or take insult over
something that as an individual you have neither done, said
or actioned.
Just for the record I am an individual I am not "the UK"
Anyway..... who is Trump
.
M
The Royal "we, us ours" does make me smile a bit.
I should think very few people on here have stepped
inside the Whitehouse or the Houses of Parliment, let
alone are among the law makers of any land.
The truth is that 99.9999999999999999% of people are
governed by 0.000000000000001% of the people or
thereabouts; and nobody on CC is actually in any position
to ban anyone from any country.
So what is everyone talking about!
Why take ownership or feel offended or take insult over
something that as an individual you have neither done, said
or actioned.
Just for the record I am an individual I am not "the UK"
Anyway..... who is Trump.
I should think very few people on here have stepped
inside the Whitehouse or the Houses of Parliment, let
alone are among the law makers of any land.
The truth is that 99.9999999999999999% of people are
governed by 0.000000000000001% of the people or
thereabouts; and nobody on CC is actually in any position
to ban anyone from any country.
So what is everyone talking about!
Why take ownership or feel offended or take insult over
something that as an individual you have neither done, said
or actioned.
Just for the record I am an individual I am not "the UK"
Anyway..... who is Trump
.
M
I prefer the concept that God is in charge and that we prayer for our leaders and
God's will, will be done regardless of who is in charge.
1 Timothy 2:1-3 AMP
[1] FIRST OF all, then, I admonish and urge that petitions, prayers, intercessions,
and thanksgivings be offered on behalf of all men, [2] For kings and all who are in
positions of authority or high responsibility, that outwardly we may pass a quiet
and undisturbed life and inwardly a peaceable one in all godliness and reverence
and seriousness in every way. [3] For such praying is good and right, and it is
pleasing and acceptable to God our Savior,
M
I found this which is interesting but it could also be applied to
any country.
Does God Pick Presidents? | United Church of God
The Bible records that Nebuchadnezzar, a powerful ruler over the
Babylonian Empire 500 years before Christ, received a vision from
God. The prophet Daniel interpreted this dream. Daniel explained
that God gave Nebuchadnezzar this vision “… in order that the living
may know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, gives
it to whomever He will, and sets over it the lowest of men” (Daniel 4:17).
As implied in Daniel's words, Nebuchadnezzar was not a nice man.
He threw people alive into hot furnaces if they didn't bow to his idol.
He threatened all of his advisors with mass murder if they didn't interpret
his dream.
America has never experienced such a violent ruler. Yet, the Bible clearly
shows that at times God will place really bad leaders in positions of great
power for the explicit purpose of fulfilling His plans.
This was certainly true of the Pharaoh of the Exodus whose heart God
hardened time after time until Egypt was humbled for its evil treatment of
God's people, Israel. God sent Moses to tell Pharaoh: “…indeed for this purpose
I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name
may be declared in all the earth” (Exodus 9:16).
God has also been directly involved in elevating individuals to very prominent
positions on other occasions. He inspired the prophet Isaiah to announce
far in advance the rise to power of Cyrus the Great to fulfill His purpose
(Isaiah 45:1). It was a century and half later when God gave Cyrus power
over the Persian Empire.
Cyrus acknowledged God's purpose for his life by sending a royal proclamation
throughout his empire: “All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven
has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem
which is in Judah. Who is among you of all His people? May the Lord his God
be with him, and let him go up!” (2 Chronicles 36:23).
Students of Bible prophecy also know that in the last days God will even allow
a religious figure called “the man of sin” to be empowered by Satan. Through
skillful deception this man will pretend to be God and deceive many into
worshipping him (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12).
Prayers concerning national leaders
Since the founding of America's colonies over three centuries ago, Americans
have appealed to God in their selection of leaders. Pilgrims believed that their
civic leaders were servants of God and appealed to Christ to guide them. They
looked for biblical standards of leadership in their civic and political leaders.
They applied Old Testament principles directly to much of colonial law, even
quoting Scripture in their legislation.
There is much evidence in the Scriptures that God can and sometimes does
decide who will be the leading official of a nation. But He also allows people
to pick national leaders whose values are not those taught in the Holy
Scriptures, even to their detriment. He once criticized His own anciently chosen
people with these words, “Israel has rejected the good … They set up kings, but
not by Me …” (Hosea 8:4). The lesson is plain. God only approves of those
rulers who have not “rejected the good” as He defines it.
How should those who today respect God and the “good” that He teaches pray?
The apostle Paul gives us this superb advice: “Therefore I exhort first of all that
supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men,
for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable
life in all godliness and reverence” (1 Timothy 2:1-2, emphasis added).
Praying that God will give us leaders who will work to make it possible for us to
live “a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence” is commendable
and proper in God's eyes. But first we must begin learning and practicing His
will if we expect Him to hear our prayers. Even Jesus, having complete faith
in God's decisions, prayed “not My will, but Yours, be done” (Luke 22:42). We
learn God's will by reading and understanding His Word, the Bible.
any country.
Does God Pick Presidents? | United Church of God
The Bible records that Nebuchadnezzar, a powerful ruler over the
Babylonian Empire 500 years before Christ, received a vision from
God. The prophet Daniel interpreted this dream. Daniel explained
that God gave Nebuchadnezzar this vision “… in order that the living
may know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, gives
it to whomever He will, and sets over it the lowest of men” (Daniel 4:17).
As implied in Daniel's words, Nebuchadnezzar was not a nice man.
He threw people alive into hot furnaces if they didn't bow to his idol.
He threatened all of his advisors with mass murder if they didn't interpret
his dream.
America has never experienced such a violent ruler. Yet, the Bible clearly
shows that at times God will place really bad leaders in positions of great
power for the explicit purpose of fulfilling His plans.
This was certainly true of the Pharaoh of the Exodus whose heart God
hardened time after time until Egypt was humbled for its evil treatment of
God's people, Israel. God sent Moses to tell Pharaoh: “…indeed for this purpose
I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name
may be declared in all the earth” (Exodus 9:16).
God has also been directly involved in elevating individuals to very prominent
positions on other occasions. He inspired the prophet Isaiah to announce
far in advance the rise to power of Cyrus the Great to fulfill His purpose
(Isaiah 45:1). It was a century and half later when God gave Cyrus power
over the Persian Empire.
Cyrus acknowledged God's purpose for his life by sending a royal proclamation
throughout his empire: “All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven
has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem
which is in Judah. Who is among you of all His people? May the Lord his God
be with him, and let him go up!” (2 Chronicles 36:23).
Students of Bible prophecy also know that in the last days God will even allow
a religious figure called “the man of sin” to be empowered by Satan. Through
skillful deception this man will pretend to be God and deceive many into
worshipping him (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12).
Prayers concerning national leaders
Since the founding of America's colonies over three centuries ago, Americans
have appealed to God in their selection of leaders. Pilgrims believed that their
civic leaders were servants of God and appealed to Christ to guide them. They
looked for biblical standards of leadership in their civic and political leaders.
They applied Old Testament principles directly to much of colonial law, even
quoting Scripture in their legislation.
There is much evidence in the Scriptures that God can and sometimes does
decide who will be the leading official of a nation. But He also allows people
to pick national leaders whose values are not those taught in the Holy
Scriptures, even to their detriment. He once criticized His own anciently chosen
people with these words, “Israel has rejected the good … They set up kings, but
not by Me …” (Hosea 8:4). The lesson is plain. God only approves of those
rulers who have not “rejected the good” as He defines it.
How should those who today respect God and the “good” that He teaches pray?
The apostle Paul gives us this superb advice: “Therefore I exhort first of all that
supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men,
for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable
life in all godliness and reverence” (1 Timothy 2:1-2, emphasis added).
Praying that God will give us leaders who will work to make it possible for us to
live “a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence” is commendable
and proper in God's eyes. But first we must begin learning and practicing His
will if we expect Him to hear our prayers. Even Jesus, having complete faith
in God's decisions, prayed “not My will, but Yours, be done” (Luke 22:42). We
learn God's will by reading and understanding His Word, the Bible.