Self Examination: Do you understand the Gospel?
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Gods love only works in us if we respond. Without that response we are lost is sin.
If you do not acknowledge the need for the sinners response you are a universalist.
It is like saying a flood has come, but there is no wall and it washes us all clean. Or the water is a reservoir with a tap. You either turn the tap on and can be washed or you remain dirty.
There are just these two options. Now I know theology can be hard, but this is very simple, even a child understands getting washed, but clearly not hyper-grace followers.
But then admiting Joseph Prince is WOF, prosperity and hyper-grace teacher equally is a step too far. Truth was never there strong point, just miss-representation and slander of righteous God fearing people.
If you do not acknowledge the need for the sinners response you are a universalist.
It is like saying a flood has come, but there is no wall and it washes us all clean. Or the water is a reservoir with a tap. You either turn the tap on and can be washed or you remain dirty.
There are just these two options. Now I know theology can be hard, but this is very simple, even a child understands getting washed, but clearly not hyper-grace followers.
But then admiting Joseph Prince is WOF, prosperity and hyper-grace teacher equally is a step too far. Truth was never there strong point, just miss-representation and slander of righteous God fearing people.
E
God only accepts one response from us,
The response of the tax collector.
Unless your broken to the point of falling on your knees with out hope, and in desperation of allowing God to save you. You have not responded the right way.
for you, The law still needs to act as the schoolmaster to tear you down even more, until you repent and come to that point of total brokenness.
As Jesus said, I did not come to heal the well, but the sick, and broken.
The response of the tax collector.
Unless your broken to the point of falling on your knees with out hope, and in desperation of allowing God to save you. You have not responded the right way.
for you, The law still needs to act as the schoolmaster to tear you down even more, until you repent and come to that point of total brokenness.
As Jesus said, I did not come to heal the well, but the sick, and broken.
E
if anyone thinks salvation can be lost. they have not come to this point of repentance yet, Because for some reason, whatever it may be, they still feel they can do something to help out in their salvation. and make them worthy of Gods love.
A person who is broken like the tax collector would never think he could lose salvation, Because he truly understands, no matter what he does, or how good he thinks he may ever be, he will still fall short of Gods glorious standard.
This security keeps him focused on the cross. and looking forward. Because gratitude is his root basis for growth in Christ, and one can not be grateful if their gift is not secured in Christ, but has to rest on what they do or do not do..
A person who is broken like the tax collector would never think he could lose salvation, Because he truly understands, no matter what he does, or how good he thinks he may ever be, he will still fall short of Gods glorious standard.
This security keeps him focused on the cross. and looking forward. Because gratitude is his root basis for growth in Christ, and one can not be grateful if their gift is not secured in Christ, but has to rest on what they do or do not do..
E
Hopefully every day of my life, It is the days I do not do this when I get myself in trouble. and at the end, think to myself wow, if I only woke up with the gratitude spirit, of anyway I wake up and am not in hell, is a good day..
God has broken me down to tears quite a few times though. Every time I need broken, I can count on him to break me, and I praise him for it, Otherwise, I do not think I would even be alive today.
All I can say is if you have to ask, I must wonder if you have ever even done this.. even once.
Sounds like you have not heard your own message. I do not wake up everyday and think "am not in hell" its a good day.
I wake up and praise the Lord for the blessing of a new day. I know the love of Jesus wherever I walk and I do not feel condemnation but a clear conscience. I am always a sinner saved by grace, but I actually live in that love, and walk according to His love.
You claim to be free from condemnation but your testifies to it every-day. I do not think about hell because I know Jesus.
And yes I have broken before the cross, and the Lord brings me to that place everyday in wonder and appreciation.
Unfortunately there is something wrong in your story. Once the Lord meets with you, you do not feel brokenness in the same way, but love and appreciation. He is my friend, my Lord, the one who holds my heart, the centre of my deepest desire. If you had met Jesus OSAS would not even be an issue, because you would know His presence and reassurance in the Lord. Your sense of sin sounds like OCD, self mortification of the soul, because you cannot come to accept and love yourself as Jesus loves you as you are. It is not me who is the legalist, the legalist is still in you condemning you and me as not good enough, no matter how many times we repent and believe on the cross.
I wake up and praise the Lord for the blessing of a new day. I know the love of Jesus wherever I walk and I do not feel condemnation but a clear conscience. I am always a sinner saved by grace, but I actually live in that love, and walk according to His love.
You claim to be free from condemnation but your testifies to it every-day. I do not think about hell because I know Jesus.
And yes I have broken before the cross, and the Lord brings me to that place everyday in wonder and appreciation.
Unfortunately there is something wrong in your story. Once the Lord meets with you, you do not feel brokenness in the same way, but love and appreciation. He is my friend, my Lord, the one who holds my heart, the centre of my deepest desire. If you had met Jesus OSAS would not even be an issue, because you would know His presence and reassurance in the Lord. Your sense of sin sounds like OCD, self mortification of the soul, because you cannot come to accept and love yourself as Jesus loves you as you are. It is not me who is the legalist, the legalist is still in you condemning you and me as not good enough, no matter how many times we repent and believe on the cross.
I was going to post something concerning the posts on this thread. A song I learnt as a child: "There's A Hole In My Bucket, Dear Liza, Dear Liza. There's A Hole In My Bucket, Dear Liza, A Hole."
Whilst I was pondering on this: BOOM!! It hit me, as to that which I am Baring witness (sometimes, even witty nesses
) to, and wondering: "Am I the only one seeing this?"
Job-10: 8-16 (KJV) (Job speaking here) "Thine hands have made me and fashioned me together round about; yet though dost destroy me. Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me to dust again? Hast thou not poured me out like milk, and curdled me like cheese? Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinew. Thou hast granted me life and favour, and THY VISITATION hath preserved my spirit. And these things hast thou hid in thine heart; I know that this is with thee. If I sin, then thou markest, and thou wilt not acquit me from my iniquity. If I be wicked, woe unto me; and if I be righteous, yet will I not lift my head. I am full of confusion; therefore see thou mine affliction: For it increaseth, Thou huntest me as a fierce lion: yet, again, thou showest Thyself marvellous unto me.
Matt.-24: 21-25 (KJV) (Jesus speaking here) "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be (again). And except those days be shortened, there should be no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake, those days shall be shortened. THEN, if any man shall say unto you: "LO!!....HERE IS CHRIST!!...or THERE (is Christ); BELIEVE IT NOT!!
As in "back in the day", as such I see it in these days: ALL the Priests were Levites, but, not all Levites were Priests. And so, in these days: "ALL ELECT, are Christian.........but, NOT ALL Christians, are elect."
......And this is what I'm seeing. As it seems that The Father is "Calling out His Own", from whatever rocks the enemy, or we, are trying to hide under!
Far be it from me, to lay any claims of rightousness, or holiness upon myself......Cuz Lord knows, I ain't!!
But, this what I see happening in this and other threads round cheer.
Er, as brother "YET", might say?.....I report.......YOU, decide!!
Whilst I was pondering on this: BOOM!! It hit me, as to that which I am Baring witness (sometimes, even witty nesses
) to, and wondering: "Am I the only one seeing this?"Job-10: 8-16 (KJV) (Job speaking here) "Thine hands have made me and fashioned me together round about; yet though dost destroy me. Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me to dust again? Hast thou not poured me out like milk, and curdled me like cheese? Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinew. Thou hast granted me life and favour, and THY VISITATION hath preserved my spirit. And these things hast thou hid in thine heart; I know that this is with thee. If I sin, then thou markest, and thou wilt not acquit me from my iniquity. If I be wicked, woe unto me; and if I be righteous, yet will I not lift my head. I am full of confusion; therefore see thou mine affliction: For it increaseth, Thou huntest me as a fierce lion: yet, again, thou showest Thyself marvellous unto me.
Matt.-24: 21-25 (KJV) (Jesus speaking here) "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be (again). And except those days be shortened, there should be no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake, those days shall be shortened. THEN, if any man shall say unto you: "LO!!....HERE IS CHRIST!!...or THERE (is Christ); BELIEVE IT NOT!!
As in "back in the day", as such I see it in these days: ALL the Priests were Levites, but, not all Levites were Priests. And so, in these days: "ALL ELECT, are Christian.........but, NOT ALL Christians, are elect."
......And this is what I'm seeing. As it seems that The Father is "Calling out His Own", from whatever rocks the enemy, or we, are trying to hide under!
Far be it from me, to lay any claims of rightousness, or holiness upon myself......Cuz Lord knows, I ain't!!
But, this what I see happening in this and other threads round cheer.
Er, as brother "YET", might say?.....I report.......YOU, decide!!
E
That is most likely your problem..
I do that after I thank God I am not where I deserve to be.. Those words are meaningless if I do not humble myself and see who I really am
How can you say that then ptreach it can all be lost? So you live 50 years of your christian life with that attitude, then the last year of your life you fall from grace and your 50 years is lost? You are going to hell?
Thats what the pharisees thought That they were going to heaven because of what they did, And that they could lose it all in a moment, Jesus told them they were wrong, they could never earn Gods love, They rejected and crucified him for that.
I am free from Condemnation, How else could I praise God that I am not where I KNOW I deserve to be?
I feel love BECAUSE of Gods great love for me, How do I know Gods true love? Because I am not where I deserve to be, Love without gratitude is fake love..
Eternal security is not an issue, Your the one who akes it an issue, It is not an issue because I have met jesus, and feel his infinate unending, unconditional love, Thats why I can love others, Because I have experienced Gods love..
I could not do that apart from having security in God, it would be a fake love, which is not love at all..
I do not condemn myself See you still are not listening to me.
Listen to yourself. You puff yourself up how you are this and that, There is no humility in you. Thats why your gospel has no power.
God has condemned me, I have fallen short of his glory,, Those are his words not mine.. I do not dwell on hell. I just wake up with the attitude of if I got what I deserved, I would be in hell. The rest of my day is spent praising God and seeing who I can serve and share this wonderful gospel of God to..
I do that after I thank God I am not where I deserve to be.. Those words are meaningless if I do not humble myself and see who I really am
How can you say that then ptreach it can all be lost? So you live 50 years of your christian life with that attitude, then the last year of your life you fall from grace and your 50 years is lost? You are going to hell?
Thats what the pharisees thought That they were going to heaven because of what they did, And that they could lose it all in a moment, Jesus told them they were wrong, they could never earn Gods love, They rejected and crucified him for that.
I am free from Condemnation, How else could I praise God that I am not where I KNOW I deserve to be?
I feel love BECAUSE of Gods great love for me, How do I know Gods true love? Because I am not where I deserve to be, Love without gratitude is fake love..
Eternal security is not an issue, Your the one who akes it an issue, It is not an issue because I have met jesus, and feel his infinate unending, unconditional love, Thats why I can love others, Because I have experienced Gods love..
I could not do that apart from having security in God, it would be a fake love, which is not love at all..
I do not condemn myself See you still are not listening to me.
Listen to yourself. You puff yourself up how you are this and that, There is no humility in you. Thats why your gospel has no power.
God has condemned me, I have fallen short of his glory,, Those are his words not mine.. I do not dwell on hell. I just wake up with the attitude of if I got what I deserved, I would be in hell. The rest of my day is spent praising God and seeing who I can serve and share this wonderful gospel of God to..
For the most part yes. I don't see miracles active in the body today. I see a lot of counterfeits. Does this mean God isn't working any miracles at all? I think more than likely, yes, but am not opposed to the idea that he may still yet be doing them on extremely rare occasions. Scripture clearly defines God's providential nature. Something often misunderstood or rejected by continuationists. God's supremacy and sovereignty is something often misunderstood or rejected by continuationists as well.
Many claim they have to give God permission to do anything, making themselves more sovereign than God. Most of what comes out of churches that claim miracles and signs and wonders are still going on are very man-centered doctrines, churches who have perverted the Gospel in one way or another and made man supreme over God. The counter-argument is that cessationists are not working in the Holy Spirit, which is absurd. Cessationists typically have a better understanding of the Word and fewer false prophets and false teachers. If these churches who practice signs and wonders and miracles are so Spirit filled, why do they toss scripture out the window and base every thing on experience rather than the Word of God?
What we see today being called miracles attributed to the Holy Spirit:
Violent shaking
Unsubstantiated claims of "miraculous healing"
Unsubstantiated claims of resurrections
False babbling tongues
Claims of minor pain relief (back pain, headaches, etc., all inconsequential while real terminal illnesses remain)
Making animal noises
Uncontrollable laughter
Spiritual drunkeness
False visions
Very specific false prophecies
Vague, fortune teller like prophecies, often very bizarre in nature
Communing with spirits
Loss of control of oneself (loss of motor function, blacking out)
False signs (synchronistic events, coincidences, hearing voices, dreams, etc.)
Other bizarre things people call miracles and attribute to the Holy Spirit
What we see in the bible being called miraculous:
A sea parting
Public resurrections of the dead
Public instantaneous healings of terminal and incurable illnesses and severe disabilities
The sun stopping for a day
Fire and brimstone raining from the sky to destroy twin cities
A man being swallowed by a whale and being in it's belly for three days and three nights
Worldwide flood
Virgin birth
The plagues of Egypt
A burning bush that wasn't consumed and spoke
A staff turning into a serpent
Pillars of fire and smoke
The walls of Jericho falling
Shadrach Meshach and Abednego not consumed in the furnace
Miraculously understanding and or speaking a foreign language not previously known
And on and on it goes
--
What we see today is in no way a comparison to biblical miracles.
Many claim they have to give God permission to do anything, making themselves more sovereign than God. Most of what comes out of churches that claim miracles and signs and wonders are still going on are very man-centered doctrines, churches who have perverted the Gospel in one way or another and made man supreme over God. The counter-argument is that cessationists are not working in the Holy Spirit, which is absurd. Cessationists typically have a better understanding of the Word and fewer false prophets and false teachers. If these churches who practice signs and wonders and miracles are so Spirit filled, why do they toss scripture out the window and base every thing on experience rather than the Word of God?
What we see today being called miracles attributed to the Holy Spirit:
Violent shaking
Unsubstantiated claims of "miraculous healing"
Unsubstantiated claims of resurrections
False babbling tongues
Claims of minor pain relief (back pain, headaches, etc., all inconsequential while real terminal illnesses remain)
Making animal noises
Uncontrollable laughter
Spiritual drunkeness
False visions
Very specific false prophecies
Vague, fortune teller like prophecies, often very bizarre in nature
Communing with spirits
Loss of control of oneself (loss of motor function, blacking out)
False signs (synchronistic events, coincidences, hearing voices, dreams, etc.)
Other bizarre things people call miracles and attribute to the Holy Spirit
What we see in the bible being called miraculous:
A sea parting
Public resurrections of the dead
Public instantaneous healings of terminal and incurable illnesses and severe disabilities
The sun stopping for a day
Fire and brimstone raining from the sky to destroy twin cities
A man being swallowed by a whale and being in it's belly for three days and three nights
Worldwide flood
Virgin birth
The plagues of Egypt
A burning bush that wasn't consumed and spoke
A staff turning into a serpent
Pillars of fire and smoke
The walls of Jericho falling
Shadrach Meshach and Abednego not consumed in the furnace
Miraculously understanding and or speaking a foreign language not previously known
And on and on it goes
--
What we see today is in no way a comparison to biblical miracles.
Some of the replies to this thread genuinely upset my stomach, like genuine repulsion. Your hatred, malice, and anti-Spirit words are horrendous. To call God's works satanic is just audaciously irresponsible. How ashamed you ought to be, I could see the Lord standing before some of you as the apostle Paul and say, once again, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting." Some of your replies bring out a righteous anger and indignation, to be opposed to God's workings and to attribute it to the devil. Just awful...
We were all there at one point and still are in some areas in our ignorance of all that our Lord has accomplished in His finished work...but we are growing in the grace and knowledge of HIM.......that's why we preach the gospel of the grace of Christ....in IT is the power for salvation in all areas of our life.
Sir, we would see Jesus!
Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Sir, we would see Jesus!
Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."