GOD IS FOR YOU, NOT AGAINST YOU

[Grace777x70]

The Holy Spirit is inside of us to reveal Jesus to us and what Jesus did for us in His finished work...and the Holy Spirit reveals the things of God..

John 16:13-15 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.[SUP]15 [/SUP] "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.


1 Corinthians 2:12-16 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[Grace777x70]

Anyone desiring to know more about the grace-based view of what the Holy Spirit ministry to us is ....can view it in the link below...it'll bless you and you will fall deeper in love with Jesus more then ever!

Search Results holy spirit – Escape to Reality

Sometimes the comments section below the articles have great questions that I have found as edifying as the actual article itself...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

He convicts the world(Cosmos/unbelievers) of their sin of unbelief. We are not of this world.

Jesus convicts (proves wrong) both the world and believers of sin. Reprove and rebuke in the verses below are the same word.

Reprove/Rebuke
G1651 ἐλέγχω elegcho (el-eng'-kho) v.
1. to confute, admonish

Jesus convicts the world of sin

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: John 16:8​

Jesus convicts believers of their sin

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Revelation 3:19​

 

[crossnote]

I pretty much agree with that statement, if I am reading it in the right context.

Believers judge themselves, by their own conscience(Doctrine in our soul)

Acts 24:16And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.

The Holy Spirit convinces us that we are out of Gods plan, and we need to get back in His plan.

I always focus on the quenching of the Spirit, which is religion and our own righteousness. The Holy Spirit is not going PAY,PAY,PAY because we are stuck in religion. or PAY,PAY,PAY because we sit in a pew to feel better about ourselves.

He gives us a one liner from a teacher who is teaching TRUTH on a radio station or a bit of truth from another believer and we can make a positive or negative decision to that truth.

He convicts the world(Cosmos/unbelievers) of their sin of unbelief. We are not of this world.

If you blow up in anger, the Spirit won't convict you?

 

[Gr8grace]

If you blow up in anger, the Spirit won't convict you?

Do you know not to blow up in anger? Have you learned it, and have it metabolized in your soul? Or does the Holy Spirit have to convict you because you have no clue.

The Holy Spirit TEACHES us that we should not blow up in anger. And when we do, we use our conscience or bible doctrine that we have learned to convict ourselves.

 

[crossnote]

Do you know not to blow up in anger? Have you learned it, and have it metabolized in your soul? Or does the Holy Spirit have to convict you because you have no clue.

The Holy Spirit TEACHES us that we should not blow up in anger. And when we do, we use our conscience or bible doctrine that we have learned to convict ourselves.

I know it's wrong by His Word and by my new nature, but sometimes when my flesh gets the upperhand His Spirit convicts me of it. All glory to His Spirit of Grace and not to my own conscience or bible doctrine.

 

[psalm6819]

You are a joker. Here you have been for weeks pushing Joseph and now its that Prince guy.
You are happy with Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn so I know which fold you come out of, and it is not the Lords.

Once again, not edifying but "accusing the brethern" fruit of the spirit displayed...the lemon.

 

[Gr8grace]

I know it's wrong by His Word and by my new nature, but sometimes when my flesh gets the upperhand His Spirit convicts me of it. All glory to His Spirit of Grace and not to my own conscience or bible doctrine.

Its one way to Glorify the Lord Crossnote. Use His word(bible doctrine) to solve our problems. Being positive to His word.

For every believer, God gives us instruction and solutions before the problem arises. We have the solution or answer, we just need to recall it. And that takes study,study,study.

We see Paul and the disciples doing this all the time........Paul praying for the thorn to be removed. The solution was already there for Paul.

2 Cor 12:9~~New American Standard Bible
And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Luke 24:8~~New American Standard Bible
And they remembered His words,

 

[ForthAngel]

I pretty much agree with that statement, if I am reading it in the right context.

Believers judge themselves, by their own conscience(Doctrine in our soul)

Acts 24:16And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.

The Holy Spirit convinces us that we are out of Gods plan, and we need to get back in His plan.

I always focus on the quenching of the Spirit, which is religion and our own righteousness. The Holy Spirit is not going PAY,PAY,PAY because we are stuck in religion. or PAY,PAY,PAY because we sit in a pew to feel better about ourselves.

He gives us a one liner from a teacher who is teaching TRUTH on a radio station or a bit of truth from another believer and we can make a positive or negative decision to that truth.

He convicts the world(Cosmos/unbelievers) of their sin of unbelief. We are not of this world.

Hi Gr8

You guys like to play with words.

Here is what scripture says about "convincing" us.

Hebrews 12
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. [SUP]4 [/SUP]In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?

“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
nor be weary when reproved by him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives.”

[SUP]7[/SUP]It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?[SUP]8 [/SUP]If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? [SUP]10 [/SUP]For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed.

Proverbs 3
[SUP]11 [/SUP]My son, do not despise the Lord's discipline
or be weary of his reproof,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]for the Lord reproves him whom he loves,
as a father the son in whom he delights.

Revelation 3
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! [SUP]16 [/SUP]So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.[SUP]18 [/SUP]I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

 

[Grace777x70]

That sounds very convincing to me...the discipline of the Lord is a good thing..it shows He loves us!!

 

[ForthAngel]

That sounds very convincing to me...the discipline of the Lord is a good thing..it shows He loves us!!

The thing is Grace777, you say that here. But in other places you say it is satan who makes us aware of sin and that we should never repent. This is what Prince and many of the other preachers you promote on here teach as well. But the scripture I posted clearly contradicts that. "Be zealous and repent" are words from God, not satan. If you notice there in Revelation 3, the people claim they are rich, have prospered, and need nothing, much like prosperity preachers claim you will be. but God contrasts that with No, you don't even realize you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked, and calls them to repent. He's addressing the church here, not an unbelieving world.

So instead of God bringing to mind our sins that we need to repent of, these preachers call it satan. Do you see the danger in that?

 

[starblue]

God bless you I needed to hear this today as I feel very alone. Sometimes reading words from our God can bring you back to the reality that God is our rock in times of need.

 

[Grace777x70]

Obviously you have a skewed understanding when you say that people should not repent....I don't have the time nor the desire to go around this mulberry bush again but for on lookers on the site..they can go and see what is really being said on that subject...they can click below to read for themselves and rely on the Holy Spirit to guide them.

Search Results repentance – Escape to Reality

The thing is Grace777, you say that here. But in other places you say it is satan who makes us aware of sin and that we should never repent. This is what Prince and many of the other preachers you promote on here teach as well. But the scripture I posted clearly contradicts that. "Be zealous and repent" are words from God, not satan. If you notice there in Revelation 3, the people claim they are rich, have prospered, and need nothing, much like prosperity preachers claim you will be. but God contrasts that with No, you don't even realize you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked, and calls them to repent. He's addressing the church here, not an unbelieving world.

So instead of God bringing to mind our sins that we need to repent of, these preachers call it satan. Do you see the danger in that?

 

[Grace777x70]

You are welcome! The Lord is for us and His grace will be there for you in all things. His love goes with us no matter what we face in life.

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

God bless you I needed to hear this today as I feel very alone. Sometimes reading words from our God can bring you back to the reality that God is our rock in times of need.

 

[Grace777x70]

I understand also what you mean in Revelation 3 and the church at Laodecia.....some people will make "going after riches" their main focus which is no doubt a snare to people.....and it most certainly can apply to any where in the world...in any culture...here is a grace-based view looking at the letters to the churches through the lens of the finished work of our Lord Jesus on the cross and in His resurrection.

Again I don't want to go around the "bush" again as you have your views ...so I'll just leave a link for those looking on to go to if they want to ...and let the Holy Spirit within speak to them what they need to know now for where they are in their walk with the Lord.

Search Results laodicea – Escape to Reality

Have a great rest of the day!....

The thing is Grace777, you say that here. But in other places you say it is satan who makes us aware of sin and that we should never repent. This is what Prince and many of the other preachers you promote on here teach as well. But the scripture I posted clearly contradicts that. "Be zealous and repent" are words from God, not satan. If you notice there in Revelation 3, the people claim they are rich, have prospered, and need nothing, much like prosperity preachers claim you will be. but God contrasts that with No, you don't even realize you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked, and calls them to repent. He's addressing the church here, not an unbelieving world.

So instead of God bringing to mind our sins that we need to repent of, these preachers call it satan. Do you see the danger in that?

 

[roaringkitten]

I like to think of the last part of Romans 8:31 as, it's better if the whole world is against you and God be for you, than for the whole world to be for you and God be against you! While Satan is the accuser of the brethren night and day(Rev 12:10), the saints have the most powerful advocate, Jesus the righteous according to 1 John 2:1. He can only be your advocate because of His Righteousness, for He is our Righteousness(Jer 33:16)

 

[Gr8grace]

Hi Gr8

You guys like to play with words.

Here is what scripture says about "convincing" us.

Hebrews 12
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. [SUP]4 [/SUP]In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?

“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
nor be weary when reproved by him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives.”

[SUP]7[/SUP]It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?[SUP]8 [/SUP]If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? [SUP]10 [/SUP]For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed.

Proverbs 3
[SUP]11 [/SUP]My son, do not despise the Lord's discipline
or be weary of his reproof,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]for the Lord reproves him whom he loves,
as a father the son in whom he delights.

Revelation 3
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! [SUP]16 [/SUP]So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.[SUP]18 [/SUP]I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

Did you notice that it says in YOUR struggle against sin. Not the Holy Spirits struggle against sin. And sin is singular.......our old sin nature. our "good" and our sin.

The Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ discipline a believer to get the believer back in His plan for their lives. He is not making the believer pay,pay,pay for a specific sin or legalistic activity.

He convicts and disciplines us in the things that we are NOT(His plan for our lives) doing, not making us pay for "bad" things we have done.

 

[ladylynn]

No problem. Thanks for the thoughtful reply.



I do understand that it takes some times to hear someone out. I think I have heard enough to make a sound judgment however. I've been listening to him a lot recently as well because of all the hyper stuff being brought up on the boards to see if his theology has changed at all since I was listening before. Still a lot of WoF teaching mixed in with his messages. He is very subtle about it, but it's there.

I will admit that he makes some good points and is not exactly wrong about everything. But I think he has taken the Gospel out of his message entirely. Grace itself seems to be the object of faith in his gospel and not Christ. This is what I get out of listening to his version of the Gospel. In any given sermon, you may here Jesus a few times, but the rest of the time it's faith in the gospel of grace, faith in grace, belief in grace. Don't worry about those sins and trust in grace. Everyone here who likes him and others who teach the gospel of grace will deny that this teaching gives a license to sin, but while listening to his sermons it's difficult for me to come to that same conclusion.

He condemns everyone who preaches obedience to Christ as pharisees and lawkeepers. But Christ himself said if we love him, we will obey his commands. He teaches a form of anti-law. Complete lawlessness, even by the new covenant standard of obeying Christ. We are free in Christ, but not lawless. I am not talking about justification by old covenant law, which is the general accusation against those of us against the gospel of grace he preaches. I simply mean obedience to Christ. He preaches against the denial of self but to indulge self and to expect money, expect health, expect miracles. The most convincing lie is one that is mostly truth. But we know a little leaven leavens the whole lump. I know that, in context, that is speaking of lawkeepers, but I think it works just as well on the opposite end of the spectrum.



Fair enough. I agree with this. I think this can be expanded to beyond local church bodies however. Christian chat for example is a community of Christians. A virtual meeting place for the body. Should we not be as on guard (getting the house in order so to speak) here and judging those in our midst who would pervert the grace of God and turned it into sensuality, or an idol all on its own? Should we let the sheep fall prey to wolves simply because this is not a local body of believers?



Repentance is a key part of the true Gospel of Christ crucified. It can't be removed from the Gospel and still be able to be called the Gospel. Like I said in the previous post, it's like Prince believes his entire audience is already saved, so the full Gospel is never even preached. So we end up with a repentless gospel promising fleshly gain.

Wow., lots going on since I last was here. I see Grace777 has been posting links from the horses mouth sort of speak., and also from a few other links. There is NO way to understand unless you hear a person out to the end of their explanation. Even if while you are listening mid way you get annoyed again. Listen until the end because the very questions gets laid out then the answer in context to the question and then some.

I don't do the linking very well and end up spending hours trying to articulate an answer. It has been stated so many times that repentance is done every day. We are constantly repenting and changing our minds to be in agreement with God's Word about Him and us. We agree and change. Repentance is not always crying in sorrow and regret., it is most often having a mind change and realizing how far off we were. Then we get in line with the truth.

I spent many years in the kind of repentance that you are speaking of here and basically it was a glorification of my emotions. I focused on how awful I 'felt' and not on the remedy to the regret and suffering of sorrow for my missing the mark. Religion is focused on how much can WE do to show God how sorry WE are.... what can WE DO to get this right? to make this right? How do WE get OUT of this awful feeling of guilt and condemnation???? How much suffering do we need to do?
(when all the while the Christian has been given the gift of NO CONDEMNATION and is ignoring it)

Repentance (the kind you are talking about) is NOT the true Gospel of Christ crucified. Our 'feelings' of sorrow are about as valuable to God as Judas's were. He was so sorry he hated himself and tried to make it right by giving back the silver.,then he made the ultimate payment of showing just HOW sorry he was and what he was willing to do to PAY. He killed himself.

Many Christians are slowly doing that too. As if that mattered in the face of what Jesus did on the cross. WE CAN NOT DO WHAT HE DID. Repentance is actually accepting God's remedy for our sin...Jesus Christ His Son. Humbling ourselves to the realization our 'feelings' are stupid. They are supposed to be put aside and instead we are to take on God's way of solving the sin problem.


As Christians we LEARN from the place of forgiveness. We do not have to start all over again as if we were never made sons. We have the gift of no condemnation and we are learning about God's grace and how it applies.

 

[ladylynn]

Also Gr8 the concept of Grace is so obvious in Paul's writings whereas your example of the dipped morsel isn't.
So why are we being smothered with these certain teachers...Prince, Wommack, Farley, Rufus etc. almost in cult like fashion...it's scary.

(this is JGIGs link and an excellent one she shared in this thread)

I heard a Bob George teaching on the New Covenant, and I was like, YES! SOMEONE is FINALLY preaching this!!!




Yes, the "concept" of Grace is clearly wonderful!! But it soon loses it's truth as the religious mind set makes grace this faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar off spiritual idea that only happens at salvation. What so many people are hearing preached now and are so set free and excited about for the first time in their lives is there IS grace for the Christian!! That is why we newbies are soooo excited at my age about grace for our every day life. It's not new it's just new to us who were taught another way.

I was not taught the way JGIG was when I first got saved. She grasped the truth and held on to it where as I had a very religious moralistic teaching. It basically said "ok, you got the grace to get saved and Jesus paid your way in, now you have to maintain this gift by your good works, good thoughts and transforming of your mind and emotions., You better start to be manifesting those fruits of the Spirit right along now! if you're not; it could mean your not saved OR that your heart is rebellious OR you need more teaching OR you're just not doing enough and most probably that is it., you're not reading your Bible enough., read more chapters, pray for 2 hours as well, and take on more jobs at the church to show God you are willing to sacrifice for Him to show you really love Him."

All the while our eyes are OFF of Jesus and on to ourselves. We don't look at the finished work of Christ when we fall in some sin., we try to do better by sacrificing or doing more. We are so busy hating ourselves and our weakness that we continue to walk in the devils condemnation never realizing we already have the gift of no condemnation in Christ. We already have Christ's righteousness as sons., but we never walked in that truth and instead we saw ourselves as lowly rotten stinking sinners and not the true saints that we were in Christ. We had the gift of Christ's righteousness but never walked in it.

We lived like paupers and weaklings when we were gifted so much but never claimed it. Just like that story Willie put up about the woman who worked for the rich guy and when he died he willed his whole estate to her. She couldn't read so instead she put it up on her wall in a frame and lived until old age as a striving toiling overworked elderly lady until she died.

 

[ladylynn]

The Lord has sent us gifts to the body of Christ so that we would grow up in Him. Teachers are one of them. Some teachers are anointed to teach on certain areas of truth. If we reject teachers teaching us we are cutting ourselves off from what the Lord has for us.

The Holy Spirit uses teachers to help with us to learn the things of Jesus. He is the One inside us that witnesses to the truth. The very question as to why we need teachers is basic unless we know everything now. So, unless people have arrived as outlined in verse 13 below - we will always need teachers.

Ephesians 4:11-13 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
[SUP]12 [/SUP] for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
[SUP]13 [/SUP] until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

Acts 13:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now there were at Antioch, in the church that was there, prophets and teachers: Barnabas, and Simeon who was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

And also we are to read and feed on the Bible on our own just as much if not more but yet we are to do BOTH. We are called to do both. We have 24hrs in a day and what we spend our time on is what we will show out in our lives. With the innovations of technology we are able to hear teachers and preachers we never have been able to hear years ago. We have so many resources at our finger tips literally. To use this technology for good IS GOOD. Not bad.

People can go on line and take a class in Greek or Latin. Can take a class by a great man of God who actually helped put together portions of a translation of the Bible! This is amazing. Why are there so many negative Nessies who can't see the many possibilities for good but instead only see the possibilities for evil? yeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!