How encompassing is the Gospel?

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Feb 7, 2015
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#1
Thinking about how Romans speaks of "the whole creation groaning in anticipation of the revealing.......", I ran across this. Posted for your consideration and rational comments. (The last line sums up his thought.)

Our oversimplification of the Gospel into a message that we can escape hell and live forever in heaven is truly not found in the teachings of Jesus or the apostles. Is there postmortem hope held out in the Gospel? Yes, that of resurrection. The standard concept, though, that it all boils down to where will you spend "eternity", is not found at the center, nor on the fringes, of Jesus’ and His apostles' message.

Our simplifying of the Gospel into such a message, I believe, stems from our desire to make the story relevant to our lives, combined with a lack of understanding of the political climate and eschatological expectations of Jesus' day. Most in Jesus' day were not living in fear of eternal damnation, and awaiting a Messiah who would give them the secrets to making heaven. No, they were a people, essentially, living in exile in their own land, occupied by Rome, and desperately awaiting a King who would announce a year of jubilee and freedom to them, but a day of vengeance to their oppressors. Their hopes were extremely political, and dealt with the present world.

Jesus' message, similarly, dealt with very now issues. It was also political and social, only instead of proclaiming a warrior Messiah who would put Rome in its place and exalt the "people of God", it exposed and shamed the system to which Jerusalem had fallen prey. It showed that both they, and the empire they so longed to turn the tables on, were a part of the very same system, and that this system was void of hope. In Jesus, a contrary Kingdom is announced, and a new way of living revealed. It announces the hope that this world can be a different place, if we throw off systems of violence, domination and oppression, and embracing an others-centered life of love, generosity and altruism. It also announces the ultimate hope of the world being put to rights in a future resurrection.

Our problem, is that we're looking 2,000 years into the past, and see no relevance in the political issues Israel was facing, and then over-spiritualize many of the subversive parables and sayings of Jesus, causing them to appear as though they deal with the overly simplistic, heaven/hell issue. But this was not the problem Messiah was expected to rectify, and is simply not what Jesus was speaking to.

The Gospel's relevance lies in its call for us to abandon systems, be they religious, political, or a hybrid of the two, that move us to persecute, otherize, trample on, or oppress another human being. It calls us to see the whole of humanity as defined by Christ, and so to love, accept, and give to all equally. It announces salvation from "the present evil age" (Galatians 1:4), in which people are divided between "Jew and Gentile", "slave and free", "male and female" (Gal 3:28), for a "new creation", in which circumcision and uncircumcision, that is, human-made distinctions, mean nothing, and the only thing that counts is a faith that finds expression through love and service to others (Gal 5:6, 15).

In an era where the ideas of cosmic concentration camps and cloud cities (Bespin, anyone?) seem increasingly absurd to 99.9% of humanity, we have an opportunity to seize upon the true power of the Gospel. We have something better to offer than fear, fire and force, but a very real way of escape from present systems that destroy and lead to death. We have a message that doesn't call people to church attendance and hell avoidance, but to genuinely love one another, from the heart (1 Pet 1:22); a call and an empowerment to truly live in a new, and previously unknown way. This epic call is wrapped in an equally epic, poetic story of self-sacrifice, self-giving, enemy-love and forgiveness that has the power to move the heart in ways that mere political spiels and rhetoric cannot.

This Gospel, *the* Gospel, actually has the power to save the world, not just an individual.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,564
6,776
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#2
While I agree in principal............I would like to see this person incorporate what Jesus prayed to God the Father in the 17th Chapter of John...........

:)
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#3
It is with some trepidation that I post something like this, but I am holding out hope that at least a few readers can resist knee-jerk reactions to some "trigger phrases" well enough to absorb the entire article before forming an opinion. (My wife just laughed at my dreaming.... LOL)
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,564
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#4
...uhuo......u posted this a wee bit late........sigh........... :)
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#5
Oh, don't feel bad. I certainly only expect those "rational comments" from specific people. LOL
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,564
6,776
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#6
When I read the post, my very first thought was of the Thread on the BDF that I Authored Titled:

A Special Kind of Love........

Don't know if you read it...........but that was my first thought.

:)
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#7
When I read the post, my very first thought was of the Thread on the BDF that I Authored Titled:

A Special Kind of Love........

Don't know if you read it...........but that was my first thought.

:)
I haven't yet, but I will get to it. Probably tomorrow.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
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#9
Jesus died to invite us to develop a personal relationship with God to really get to know Him and to someday live with God, but we need to practice this loving relationship with each other here on earth first....now there is a BDF bomb for ya....lol Since it seems over in that area it is a one upsmanship battle..

Don't get me wrong He died to save us from sin but it was so we could use our time to develop the love relationship between God and our fellow man.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#10
So, you guys aren't seeing creation beyond mankind being affected by the gospel?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,564
6,776
113
#11
The story of all creation is in the Gospel, and the end result of all creation is in the Gospel.........BUT, it that the true focus of what the Gospel is?

God directly affects all He created........He is the Creator after all. But I don't see the Gospel focusing on Jesus taking upon Himself the form of man, to preach the Gospel, and to establish God's Salvation Plan for all mankind............"whosoever will" ........... as being focused on non human creations.

Maybe I am over simplifying your comments............dunno........but I'm pretty sure my understanding of the Gospel of Christ was directed at mankind....... :)
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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#12
Well I would have thought this a very rational proposal before I was regenerated by His Spirit and the veil was removed from my blind eyes. To be honest though it really sounds like a more secular "real world" interpretation of someone that really loves the "idea" of Jesus and what He taught and stood for than it does a truly reborn by the true power of the very REAL God and creator of everything. This sounds a lot like how I thought of all this "Christian stuff" before my motorcycle wreak when I too really liked the "idea of Jesus", but had a real life to live and bills to pay. When I just thought of it as a nice set of "guidelines" that if you lived by would result in a decent life. I didn't KNOW God, and I wouldn't have presumed to say any other belief system was "wrong" in absolute sense, and really never cared enough to look into it.

I definitely didn't know if heaven or hell was real and would have agreed with you that they couldn't have been the real focus of Jesus and this book, it was more about loving everyone for who they are and treating others well. From my worldly perspective that was completely rational and logical. But then something happened that took me off guard, I found myself at the end of my rope, I had lost any savings I had, my arm and a HUGE part of what gave me my self worth, any hope of carrying out any of my worldly dreams for myself, and my will to live. For 2 years all I wanted was to die, I thought about killing myself every 5 seconds for 2 whole years everyday, literally. I realized I couldn't help myself at all out of this situation, modern medicine and science couldn't fix it, my loved ones couldn't fix it, and I was just stuck here because I couldn't bring myself to kill myself and leave my two boys behind like that. First I new that no other man would love and take care of them like I would, and second I didn't want them to carry the burden of "my dad killed himself" the rest of their lives, so I was stuck. I was about at my wits end one day when I, already think I was a Christian by the way and at a point where I didn't even know if I wanted to believe there was a God anymore, hit my knees in defeat and gave up, in other words my pride died.

The next day I woke up and was about halfway through my day when I realized I hadn't contemplated suicide all day, and I was filled with new life, I actually felt better. I didn't know why but I did KNOW it was God. It only took a day or two to realize what happened and that I had been reborn and that God was REAL and Jesus was His Son. I had the Holy Spirit inside me and all this "bible stuff" was not just good guidelines and was LITERALLY true. Man this heaven and hell stuff is not just clever metaphor from ancient people, and we don't just get to understand it however each of us wants to live better lives for ourselves. It is Truth in a false synthetic word and is the living Gods way to share the gift of His Son Jesus to a fallen undeserving world. That's the way He's led me to understand it anyway.
 
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kodiak

Senior Member
Mar 8, 2015
4,995
290
83
#13
Thinking about how Romans speaks of "the whole creation groaning in anticipation of the revealing.......", I ran across this. Posted for your consideration and rational comments. (The last line sums up his thought.)

Our oversimplification of the Gospel into a message that we can escape hell and live forever in heaven is truly not found in the teachings of Jesus or the apostles. Is there postmortem hope held out in the Gospel? Yes, that of resurrection. The standard concept, though, that it all boils down to where will you spend "eternity", is not found at the center, nor on the fringes, of Jesus’ and His apostles' message.

Our simplifying of the Gospel into such a message, I believe, stems from our desire to make the story relevant to our lives, combined with a lack of understanding of the political climate and eschatological expectations of Jesus' day. Most in Jesus' day were not living in fear of eternal damnation, and awaiting a Messiah who would give them the secrets to making heaven. No, they were a people, essentially, living in exile in their own land, occupied by Rome, and desperately awaiting a King who would announce a year of jubilee and freedom to them, but a day of vengeance to their oppressors. Their hopes were extremely political, and dealt with the present world.

Jesus' message, similarly, dealt with very now issues. It was also political and social, only instead of proclaiming a warrior Messiah who would put Rome in its place and exalt the "people of God", it exposed and shamed the system to which Jerusalem had fallen prey. It showed that both they, and the empire they so longed to turn the tables on, were a part of the very same system, and that this system was void of hope. In Jesus, a contrary Kingdom is announced, and a new way of living revealed. It announces the hope that this world can be a different place, if we throw off systems of violence, domination and oppression, and embracing an others-centered life of love, generosity and altruism. It also announces the ultimate hope of the world being put to rights in a future resurrection.

Our problem, is that we're looking 2,000 years into the past, and see no relevance in the political issues Israel was facing, and then over-spiritualize many of the subversive parables and sayings of Jesus, causing them to appear as though they deal with the overly simplistic, heaven/hell issue. But this was not the problem Messiah was expected to rectify, and is simply not what Jesus was speaking to.

The Gospel's relevance lies in its call for us to abandon systems, be they religious, political, or a hybrid of the two, that move us to persecute, otherize, trample on, or oppress another human being. It calls us to see the whole of humanity as defined by Christ, and so to love, accept, and give to all equally. It announces salvation from "the present evil age" (Galatians 1:4), in which people are divided between "Jew and Gentile", "slave and free", "male and female" (Gal 3:28), for a "new creation", in which circumcision and uncircumcision, that is, human-made distinctions, mean nothing, and the only thing that counts is a faith that finds expression through love and service to others (Gal 5:6, 15).

In an era where the ideas of cosmic concentration camps and cloud cities (Bespin, anyone?) seem increasingly absurd to 99.9% of humanity, we have an opportunity to seize upon the true power of the Gospel. We have something better to offer than fear, fire and force, but a very real way of escape from present systems that destroy and lead to death. We have a message that doesn't call people to church attendance and hell avoidance, but to genuinely love one another, from the heart (1 Pet 1:22); a call and an empowerment to truly live in a new, and previously unknown way. This epic call is wrapped in an equally epic, poetic story of self-sacrifice, self-giving, enemy-love and forgiveness that has the power to move the heart in ways that mere political spiels and rhetoric cannot.

This Gospel, *the* Gospel, actually has the power to save the world, not just an individual.
I agree that we focus too much on heaven vs hell. I think following Jesus is more about building a relationship with God than about avoiding hell. When our main focus is avoiding hell, we want to follow Jesus for selfish reasons and just to avoid punishment, is our heart going to be 100% into following God?
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
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#14
The story of all creation is in the Gospel, and the end result of all creation is in the Gospel.........BUT, it that the true focus of what the Gospel is?

God directly affects all He created........He is the Creator after all. But I don't see the Gospel focusing on Jesus taking upon Himself the form of man, to preach the Gospel, and to establish God's Salvation Plan for all mankind............"whosoever will" ........... as being focused on non human creations.

Maybe I am over simplifying your comments............dunno........but I'm pretty sure my understanding of the Gospel of Christ was directed at mankind....... :)
I think what the guy is saying is that he feels we may have removed pretty much all reference to the non-human things..... that maybe those "saved" inanimate objects may just be "the new Heaven and new Earth" as we, ourselves, will also be "new."
 
I

Is

Guest
#16
Jesus wasn't offering heaven to Israel, He was offering them a Kingdom on earth and Him as their King.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
2,174
113
#17
All creation has had to suffer because man sinned and it will be recreated because John said I saw a new heaven and a new earth for the former things had passed away....But I guess I just take mostly that the good news is Jesus died to save us and give us a chance to live back in God's presence....The thought of being with God is wonderful and never being tempted to do wrong again bliss.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#18
Jesus wasn't offering heaven to Israel, He was offering them a Kingdom on earth and Him as their King.
A physical kingdom on Earth is what they were expecting and hoping He was planning, for sure, but that is just the opposite of what Jesus was offering.
 
I

Is

Guest
#19
A physical kingdom on Earth is what they were expecting and hoping He was planning, for sure, but that is just the opposite of what Jesus was offering.
To Israel? Luke 19:11-27 records the Parable of the Ten Pounds. The "man" is Christ Jesus, the far country "heaven", the departure is Jesus' "ascension", the return His "Second Coming". It's Jewish and records what will happen when Jesus Christ having recieved The Kingdom, returns to earth and rewards His servants by giving them authority over different cities.
 

zeroturbulence

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2009
24,640
4,299
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#20
John 3:16 (NIV)

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.



John 14:2 (NIV)

My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?


Yes, this is a knee-jerk reaction because I felt a kneed to post it. :p
 
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