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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Taken from devotional I read this week. Crossnote, you should read this.

Ever wonder why two people can hear the same thing and yet have very different responses? For one, what is said makes him afraid and discouraged. For the other, his heart is so filled with faith that he dares to come against the devil and what he is doing.


In the Valley of Elah, Goliath the Philistine giant taunted the armies of Israel for 40 days. When David came on the scene, he heard the same mockings of Goliath that the rest of the Israelites heard. But somehow, those same words which caused fear in the soldiers angered David. What did David know or see that the others failed to see?


David knew that he had a covenant with God. Now, King Saul and all the soldiers with him that day also had the same covenant with God, but only David believed the covenant. And he acted on his belief. So God caused his giant to come tumbling down.


If David had such a great victory even though he was under the old covenant, how much more you and I who are under the new covenant! Today, God is asking, “Where are my Davids who will believe the new covenant?”



For Crossnote :D

What is the new covenant? It is the covenant of grace. And grace means unmerited, undeserved, unearned favor. God wants us to know that He has cut this covenant with us through Christ our representative. And according to the covenant, we have His undeserved favor. We are blessed because Jesus took our beating. Because of what Jesus has done on the cross, we have victory over every giant.
Thanks Lynn, but nothing new here either. David was under the Abrahamic Covenant which was also an unconditional Covenant in which the Mosaic Covenant had no power to annul. David saw that and so do I. :)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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So, now the gospel of the grace of our Lord Jesus is "feminized"?....my goodness brother ...your malice has infected your thought life to an extreme level...

Hebrews 12:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;




Yes. I find that amazement most acute at Calvary where God's WRATH was poured out on Christ allowing us who deserved God's WRATH to receive His GRACE.
Your picture is more of a feminized God where He is all grace calling out "Olly Olly auction, free free free!".
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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Not much new here.

I come to Jesus to receive grace.
I don't come to grace to receive Jesus.

See the difference?

If one refuses Jesus he abides under His wrath.
And who disagrees with this? If a man doesn't have Christ he is already condemned. VVhat is your point? It is rather silly.
 

BenFTW

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God's grace did send His Son in the flesh to die on the cross for our sins, and rose Him on the third day !!!

No person did anything to deserve God doing this for us, that is what Ephesians 2:8-9 is talking about.

It also tells us exactly how we are put under God's grace in this passage and it says "through faith" !!!

Without accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior and what He did on the cross we would not be under God's grace, but would still be walking in unbelief and held under the Law of sin and condemnation !!!

Unbelievers are not forgiven of their sins...................No scripture says that !!!
Exactly. So, where is crossnote's disagreement? The point seems moot, as no one disagrees.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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John 1:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.


So...when we sing "amazing grace" are we bowing to our idol?......you called grace an idol in post #7

Jesus said He is Truth What about Mr. Truth.....did He die for your sins?...is truth now an idol as well?
No you are not bowing to an idol when yuou sing Amazing Grace.
You are setting up an idol when a concept, even a true concept replaces the One we are to devote ourselves to.

Now you are learning. Jesus is the Truth, the Way, the Life etc.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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So, now the gospel of the grace of our Lord Jesus is "feminized"?....my goodness brother ...your malice has infected your thought life to an extreme level...

Hebrews 12:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;
Not angry. I only see syruppy sayings coming from you. You can't say God is a God of Wrath as well as a God of Grace?
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
God's grace did send His Son in the flesh to die on the cross for our sins, and rose Him on the third day !!!

No person did anything to deserve God doing this for us, that is what Ephesians 2:8-9 is talking about.

It also tells us exactly how we are put under God's grace in this passage and it says "through faith" !!!

Without accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior and what He did on the cross we would not be under God's grace, but would still be walking in unbelief and held under the Law of sin and condemnation !!!

Unbelievers are not forgiven of their sins...................No scripture says that !!!
No. Eph 2:8-9 tells us exactly how we receive salvation, BY grace, through faith.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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garbage.......grace does not replace Jesus....no more then talking about Mr. Truth or Mr. Love is replacing Jesus..utter foolishness......

No you are not bowing to an idol when yuou sing Amazing Grace.
You are setting up an idol when a concept, even a true concept replaces the One we are to devote ourselves to.

Now you are learning. Jesus is the Truth, the Way, the Life etc.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
But until then...

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
(Joh 3:36)

Indeed. So?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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And who disagrees with this? If a man doesn't have Christ he is already condemned. VVhat is your point? It is rather silly.
Oh pleeze. Half of this thread is dealing with 77grace777 insistence to equate Jesus with Grace.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Go back and read the posts I said about God's wrath...this is just more garbage....


Not angry. I only see syruppy sayings coming from you. You can't say God is a God of Wrath as well as a God of Grace?
 

Utah

Banned
Dec 1, 2014
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Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. Jesus

To think that God seeks to be with me and you. Its so overwhelming I can't contain myself!!!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Not angry. I only see syruppy sayings coming from you. You can't say God is a God of Wrath as well as a God of Grace?
Go back and read the posts I said about God's wrath...this is just more garbage....
OK, tell me right here and now that our God is a God of wrath as well as a God of grace...keeping in mind that Jesus is God.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Go read my posts on the subject...as I addressed it a few times in this thread already....I'm not falling for your deflection tactics...sorry....

OK, tell me right here and now that our God is a God of wrath as well as a God of grace...keeping in mind that Jesus is God.
 
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BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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God is a righteous and just God, so indeed He would hate wickedness. One might think that jealousy is sinful, yet we find it to be an attribute of God, in scripture, to those He loves. He is jealous for you. Indeed, God does have wrath and He poured it out on Jesus on behalf of humanity. This isn't Universalism but propitiation. The world shall be judged on one deciding factor, "Is Jesus your Lord and Savior?" It is belief that shall determine judgement.

Crossnote, if you are arguing that God is a God of wrath I think your determination of this is skewed by the fact God was under a covenant where He blessed for obedience and cursed for disobedience. In Christ, under the new covenant, we are freed from the curses of the law. God doesn't curse us. In scripture it says all the promises of God in Christ are "yes" and "amen."

The word of God also says it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God, indeed God has righteous anger. This is not disputed, a righteous individual does hate evil. This is a good thing, that God has wrath and anger towards injustice and evil. However such attributes are not directed towards believers, for we have an Advocate with the Father and Jesus took God's wrath upon Himself at the cross of Calvary.

So, what is the disagreement here? Is it to say that God is a "God of wrath?" Indeed, if actions define an entity then such could be said, but do not neglect His love and mercy. His wrath is justified, yet it does not tarnish His character. It is a righteous anger, justly do. Yet He chose grace, mercy and love through Jesus Christ towards humanity. Keep that in mind.
 
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KennethC

Guest
Exactly. So, where is crossnote's disagreement? The point seems moot, as no one disagrees.
I am not sure either as I am going back and forth in threads, I put a like on his post because he said he came to Jesus to receive God's grace; not the other way around.

So what I take is that some are trying to say we are under God's grace before we come to the faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior and accepted what He did for us on the cross.

Thus taking and having all unbelievers forgiven of sin to, but neither is said or taught in the Word of God !!!

If all believers are forgiven of sin then why does Luke 12 show different punishments handed out at judgment depending on the sinful lifestyle's people lived ???

Luke 12 destroy's that whole same punishment for all unbelievers and disobedient debate !!!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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OK, tell me right here and now that our God is a God of wrath as well as a God of grace...keeping in mind that Jesus is God.
Go read my posts on the subject...as I addressed it a few times in this thread already....I'm not falling for your deflection tactics...sorry....
What have you to hide? A simple yes or no will suffice. Is God a God of wrath as well as a God of grace?
If I recall, you tried equating God's wrath=God's love.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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I am not sure either as I am going back and forth in threads, I put a like on his post because he said he came to Jesus to receive God's grace; not the other way around.

So what I take is that some are trying to say we are under God's grace before we come to the faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior and accepted what He did for us on the cross.

Thus taking and having all unbelievers forgiven of sin to, but neither is said or taught in the Word of God !!!

If all believers are forgiven of sin then why does Luke 12 show different punishments handed out at judgment depending on the sinful lifestyle's people lived ???

Luke 12 destroy's that whole same punishment for all unbelievers and disobedient debate !!!
I don't think anyone is putting forth Universalism, that is just being used to discredit people maliciously.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,727
3,661
113
God is a righteous and just God, so indeed He would hate wickedness. One might think that jealousy is sinful, yet we find it to be an attribute of God, in scripture, to those He loves. He is jealous for you. Indeed, God does have wrath and He poured it out on Jesus on behalf of humanity. This isn't Universalism but propitiation. The world shall be judged on one deciding factor, "Is Jesus your Lord and Savior?" It is belief that shall determine judgement.

Crossnote, if you are arguing that God is a God of wrath I think your determination of this is skewed by the fact God was under a covenant where He blessed for obedience and cursed for disobedience. In Christ, under the new covenant, we are freed from the curses of the law. God doesn't curse us. In scripture it says all the promises of God in Christ are "yes" and "amen."

The word of God also says it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God, indeed God has righteous anger. This is not disputed, a righteous individual does hate evil. This is a good thing, that God has wrath and anger towards injustice and evil. However such attributes are not directed towards believers, for we have an Advocate with the Father and Jesus took God's wrath upon Himself at the cross of Calvary.

So, what is the disagreement here? Is it to say that God is a "God of wrath?" Indeed, if actions define an entity then such could be said, but do not neglect His love and mercy. His wrath is justified, yet it does not tarnish His character. It is a righteous anger, justly do. Yet He chose grace, mercy and love through Jesus Christ towards humanity. Keep that in mind.
Read 77Grace770 hesitation to say God is a God of wrath as well as grace. Nothing more.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I think what God did to those in Canaan when Israel entered. What he did at the flood. What he will do in the end times, Proved God is a God of wrath.

He is also a God of patience.. Which flows from his grace..