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J
It has always been so striking, this contrasting truth of the Bible, also the many called, few chosen. There are these guys out there, with their watered-down gospels, saying I'm okay, you're okay, everybody's saved who calls upon the Lord, as if, "Hey, Lord!" saves, while waiting for that next drink at the bar. The mega church road must be quite a broad road to salvation, often where repentance, sin and hell are too big a bummer to mention. Yes, I've wondered the same thing, even why we need a whole New Testament, if one verse, some magic words and a smiley face, is all that's needed to be saved. I've heard Warren is dragging the Muslims under his big top, too.
Revelation 3:14-19 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Revelation 3:14-19 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
I suggest you accept that a parable is a parable and not worthy of building a doctrine upon with one other Scripture aimed at the eternal fate of demons/fallen angels. I further suggest you read the Scriptures for yourself and see how many proclaim, right from the very first book, that the wages of sin is death. Nowhere does God tell anyone that He is going to torture and torment forever those who reject Him in the final analysis. There are also many many Scriptures that proclaim God to be loving, just, and merciful. Perhaps you prefer a sadistic God. Plenty seem to.
The second death is promised to those who refuse the offer of life extended to us through the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ on our behalf. Those whose names are not found in the book of life are not experiencing life... they are dead as a result of the second death, as Scripture states, again, and again, and again, and again i.e. the wages of sin is death, the soul that sinneth shall die. All sin but that of unbelief is forgiven.
Scripture promises those who reject Jesus Christ death, not life ever after filled with torment and torture etc. In fact, death is the promised outcome of sin in a multitude of Scriptures, so many that it becomes difficult for me to understand why others are so attached to their idea of God forever after torturing and tormenting those who reject Him. Eternal life is offered only through the acceptance ofJesus Christ via His propitiatory sacrifice on our behalf. Nothing in Scripture attests to the eternal or immortal nature of the soul aside from the life benevolently bestowed upon us by God. Nowhere does Scripture promote the idea of an immortal soul aside from the life given through Christ. And, the dead know nothing!
Hell is the grave. It gets thrown into the lake of fire
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
The lost perish and are no more. They go to their death, not
eternally tortured and tormented forever. Hell is the grave.
Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Here, the Greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which means to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish, make void.
Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those in the days of Noah (Luke 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all" (not tortured). And it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29) "destroyed them" (not tortured).
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
So a person either receives eternal life, or they perish. Nothing about eternal torment there.
John 5:24, Jesus said
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Note: Death, not eternal torment.
1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
Destroy, not torture alive forever.
Galations 6:8
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption (phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish.
The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Destruction, not eternal living torment. The greek word is olethron: destruction.
From a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruination, i.e. Death, punishment -- destruction.
Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
James 1:15b
and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.
James 4:12a
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy;
2 Peter 3:7
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
All ungodly men will perish unless they repent.
1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
If you are not alive you cannot be tormented!
Jude 5
Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.
Revelation 2:11b
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
The living and the dead will be judged on the last day. Those in Christ will not experience the second death. Those not in Christ will experience a second death. This second death is their destruction.
Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.
Revelation 20:14-15
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
John interprets this for us: the lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name is not in the book of life, he experiences the second death. This is exactly what it says, death.
Revelation 21:8
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
They will undergo the second death, which means they are dead.
After the first sin, what was the promised consequence? God said that it was death. God didn't tell them that they would be given eternal life being tormented in hell. If eternal torture in hell is the consequence, it is jarringly missing from any statement by God to Adam and Eve. God even barred Adam and Eve from the garden to prevent them eating from the tree of life and living forever in their state of sin. Paul explains this: Romans 6:23, The wages of sin is death. This is obvious, Paul said what the wages of sin is and it is not to be burned alive forever after you are dead.
Ezekiel 18:4
The soul who sins will die.
Psalm 1:4-6
Not so the wicked!
They are like chaff
that the wind blows away.
Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.
Psalm 9:5
You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked;
you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.
Psalm 9:6
even the memory of them has perished.
Psalm 34:16
but the face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
to blot out their name from the earth.
Psalm 37:9
For those who are evil will be destroyed,
Psalm 37:20
But the wicked will perish:
Psalm 37:22
those he curses will be destroyed
Psalm 37:28b
Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed
Psalm 37:34
when the wicked are destroyed, you will see it.
Psalm 37:38
But all sinners will be destroyed;
there will be no future for the wicked.
Ecclesiastes 9:5
the dead know nothing
Scripture promises those who reject Jesus Christ death, not life ever after filled with torment and torture etc. In fact, death is the promised outcome of sin in a multitude of Scriptures, so many that it becomes difficult for me to understand why others are so attached to their idea of God forever after torturing and tormenting those who reject Him. Eternal life is offered only through the acceptance ofJesus Christ via His propitiatory sacrifice on our behalf. Nothing in Scripture attests to the eternal or immortal nature of the soul aside from the life benevolently bestowed upon us by God. Nowhere does Scripture promote the idea of an immortal soul aside from the life given through Christ. And, the dead know nothing!
Hell is the grave. It gets thrown into the lake of fire
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
The lost perish and are no more. They go to their death, not
eternally tortured and tormented forever. Hell is the grave.
Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Here, the Greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which means to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish, make void.
Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those in the days of Noah (Luke 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all" (not tortured). And it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29) "destroyed them" (not tortured).
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
So a person either receives eternal life, or they perish. Nothing about eternal torment there.
John 5:24, Jesus said
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Note: Death, not eternal torment.
1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
Destroy, not torture alive forever.
Galations 6:8
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption (phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish.
The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Destruction, not eternal living torment. The greek word is olethron: destruction.
From a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruination, i.e. Death, punishment -- destruction.
Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
James 1:15b
and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.
James 4:12a
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy;
2 Peter 3:7
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
All ungodly men will perish unless they repent.
1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
If you are not alive you cannot be tormented!
Jude 5
Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.
Revelation 2:11b
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
The living and the dead will be judged on the last day. Those in Christ will not experience the second death. Those not in Christ will experience a second death. This second death is their destruction.
Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.
Revelation 20:14-15
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
John interprets this for us: the lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name is not in the book of life, he experiences the second death. This is exactly what it says, death.
Revelation 21:8
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
They will undergo the second death, which means they are dead.
After the first sin, what was the promised consequence? God said that it was death. God didn't tell them that they would be given eternal life being tormented in hell. If eternal torture in hell is the consequence, it is jarringly missing from any statement by God to Adam and Eve. God even barred Adam and Eve from the garden to prevent them eating from the tree of life and living forever in their state of sin. Paul explains this: Romans 6:23, The wages of sin is death. This is obvious, Paul said what the wages of sin is and it is not to be burned alive forever after you are dead.
Ezekiel 18:4
The soul who sins will die.
Psalm 1:4-6
Not so the wicked!
They are like chaff
that the wind blows away.
Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.
Psalm 9:5
You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked;
you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.
Psalm 9:6
even the memory of them has perished.
Psalm 34:16
but the face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
to blot out their name from the earth.
Psalm 37:9
For those who are evil will be destroyed,
Psalm 37:20
But the wicked will perish:
Psalm 37:22
those he curses will be destroyed
Psalm 37:28b
Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed
Psalm 37:34
when the wicked are destroyed, you will see it.
Psalm 37:38
But all sinners will be destroyed;
there will be no future for the wicked.
Ecclesiastes 9:5
the dead know nothing
I think your friends at escapetoreality.org would do well to actually read Spurgeon
. I do not understand why those at 'escape from reality' cut out the interesting parts..but hey ho. It is taken from Spurgeons classic 'All of Grace''. I do hope you grace777 get the chance to read it.. in fact you can read the book free online, and or, listen to it on youtube. When you have the right balance you have the right gospel message. (check out also the sermon video below
)“I hear another man cry, “Oh, sir my want of strength lies mainly in this, that I cannot repent sufficiently!” A curious idea men have of what repentance is! Many fancy that so many tears are to be shed, and so many groans are to be heaved, and so much despair is to be endured. Whence comes this unreasonable notion? Unbelief and despair are sins, and therefore I do not see how they can be constituent elements of acceptable repentance; yet there are many who regard them as necessary parts of true Christian experience.
They are in great error. Still, I know what they mean, for in the days of my darkness I used to feel in the same way. I desired to repent, but I thought that I could not do it, and yet all the while I was repenting. Odd as it may sound, I felt that I could not feel. I used to get into a corner and weep, because I could not weep; and I fell into bitter sorrow because I could not sorrow for sin. What a jumble it all is when in our unbelieving state we begin to judge our own condition! It is like a blind man looking at his own eyes. My heart was melted within me for fear, because I thought that my heart was as hard as an adamant stone. My heart was broken to think that it would not break. Now I can see that I was exhibiting the very thing which I thought I did not possess; but then I knew not where I was.
Remember that the man who truly repents is never satisfied with his own repentance. We can no more repent perfectly than we can live perfectly. However pure our tears, there will always be some dirt in them: there will be something to be repented of even in our best repentance. But listen! To repent is to change your mind about sin, and Christ, and all the great things of God. There is sorrow implied in this; but the main point is the turning of the heart from sin to Christ. If there be this turning, you have the essence of true repentance, even though no alarm and no despair should ever have cast their shadow upon your mind.”
[video=youtube;6tVHAW59584]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tVHAW59584[/video]
Some of my thoughts on "repentance".
The word "repentance" - metanoia as been shown by others simply in the original greek means " to change the mind ". In Jesus and Paul's day the word would be used in a sentence like this. " I was going to the synagogue but I metanoia (changed my mind ) and went to the market.
There are "fruits" of repentance ( changing the mind ) as in the case above...the person "went to the market". ( every fiber of my being wants to say..."and this little piggy stayed home".....but I will refrain )
To us it means to change our mind to stop relying on ourselves and our thinking and turn to God. Stop living our own life with our own thinking and come to Christ and let His life live through and in you. Receive all that Jesus did for us in His finished work.
We should be repenting ( changing how we think towards something ) constantly as we see the Lord's true nature, love and grace revealed to and in us.
There will always be "fruits" of having a changed mind ( having repented ) to God but the "fruit" is not the repentance within itself. True repentance is the "root" before the "fruit" comes.
The fruit will manifest itself in the form of having a changed heart because we are a new creation in Christ. This will also show in behavior as the life of Christ transforms our outward life to reflect what has already happened in our inner man - that new creation in Christ.
Sometimes our religious traditions can "hi-jack" the meanings of words and can present false assumptions.
Anyone that is interested can listen to examples of this in the video below...it'll bless you and you will fall deeper in love with our Lord as we learn more of Him and we will live a lifelong journey of repentance.
[video=vimeo;142883678]https://vimeo.com/142883678[/video]
The word "repentance" - metanoia as been shown by others simply in the original greek means " to change the mind ". In Jesus and Paul's day the word would be used in a sentence like this. " I was going to the synagogue but I metanoia (changed my mind ) and went to the market.
There are "fruits" of repentance ( changing the mind ) as in the case above...the person "went to the market". ( every fiber of my being wants to say..."and this little piggy stayed home".....but I will refrain )
To us it means to change our mind to stop relying on ourselves and our thinking and turn to God. Stop living our own life with our own thinking and come to Christ and let His life live through and in you. Receive all that Jesus did for us in His finished work.
We should be repenting ( changing how we think towards something ) constantly as we see the Lord's true nature, love and grace revealed to and in us.
There will always be "fruits" of having a changed mind ( having repented ) to God but the "fruit" is not the repentance within itself. True repentance is the "root" before the "fruit" comes.
The fruit will manifest itself in the form of having a changed heart because we are a new creation in Christ. This will also show in behavior as the life of Christ transforms our outward life to reflect what has already happened in our inner man - that new creation in Christ.
Sometimes our religious traditions can "hi-jack" the meanings of words and can present false assumptions.
Anyone that is interested can listen to examples of this in the video below...it'll bless you and you will fall deeper in love with our Lord as we learn more of Him and we will live a lifelong journey of repentance.
[video=vimeo;142883678]https://vimeo.com/142883678[/video]