A believer is not sinless., A believer is guiltless...

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

BTW, hyper-grace has had its day here I would hope? It's been wrestled to tears

As long as the corpse keeps moving, we'll have to keep driving stakes into its heart.

 

[ember]

As long as the corpse keeps moving, we'll have to keep driving stakes into its heart.

well if you bury it, since you state it to be a corpse, it won't keep stinking up the place

if it is now a corpse, it must have been alive at one time

my suggestion, is that you folks keep bringing it back to life by flashing it when all else fails

deny that lol!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

to which guys exactly?

want to name anyone here with your labels?

see, no matter how many times this is denied, it falls on deaf ears because if anyone would acknowledge it, there would be
no more dickering and folks might actually agree on a few things

I have noticed however, that when someone cannot define their belief by scripture, they quickly post about hyper grace or anti-spiritual gifts or some other red herring

'Grace' believers. You figure out who they are.

Sorry I don't play this game anymore of 'grace' believers saying this or that, and then later claiming that they didn't say this or that. Constant redefinitions and shape-shifting is their modus operandi.

We know what they believe, and it just gets better every day. They can't hide anymore.

 

[Grace777x70]

This is so true...sometimes grace believers have said things over 50 x times on subjects and yet some people still say the exact opposite of what is being said....it's very strange....either people are being deceitful or they have ears but can't hear as Jesus says....it's dumb founding actually...

to which guys exactly?

want to name anyone here with your labels?

see, no matter how many times this is denied, it falls on deaf ears because if anyone would acknowledge it, there would be
no more dickering and folks might actually agree on a few things

I have noticed however, that when someone cannot define their belief by scripture, they quickly post about hyper grace or anti-spiritual gifts or some other red herring

 

[ladylynn]

I think that's what's meant when the bible calls people blameless (instead of sinless or perfect).

Blameless
G273 ἄμεμπτος amemptos (am'-emp-tos) adj.
1. irreproachable

We are guiltless because we are in Christ and clothed with his irreproachable righteousness. That's really grace in a nutshell.

Yes., and there is more to it for the day in and day out of our Christian walk. Guilt makes us run the other way feeling we have no 'right' to come in our failure because we are seeing ourselves as undeserving. But this is where knowing who we are IN Christ lifts the guilt and inserts the gift of no condemnation IN Christ. This is where we begin to see it IS personal. Jesus gave us this gift of no condemnation so we can stand in His righteousness. Of all times not to deserve Him would be the times we have sinned. And when is the need more greater than when we have sinned? Therefore GRACE is seen as vital... we do not deserve mercy but we have been gifted it none the less by Jesus.

2 Cor.5:21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God IN Him.

What kind of difference does this realization make when we have sinned? To know as a born again Christian., we are sons and called the righteousness of God IN Christ. That is why knowing who we are NOW after being saved., having this treasure in earthen vessels... we are now sons with a right standing that cannot be reversed. Having "confidence" is something we are also able to have now IN Christ.

 

[Magenta]

to which guys exactly?

Those who label as legalists any who teach as Jesus did regarding following commandments.

 

[FreeNChrist]

'Grace' believers. You figure out who they are.

Sorry I don't play this game anymore of 'grace' believers saying this or that, and then later claiming that they didn't say this or that. Constant redefinitions and shape-shifting is their modus operandi.

We know what they believe, and it just gets better every day. They can't hide anymore.

This from a guy who provides a link in his sig to a site that promotes the teachings of a known heretic, and who is now promoting Pelagianism which has been condemned as heresy by both RCC and Protestants alike. The irony of it is palpable.

 

[ember]

'Grace' believers. You figure out who they are.

Sorry I don't play this game anymore of 'grace' believers saying this or that, and then later claiming that they didn't say this or that. Constant redefinitions and shape-shifting is their modus operandi.

We know what they believe, and it just gets better every day. They can't hide anymore.

corpses and shape shifting greasy gracers

sounds like a really bad mashup of 'the walking dead' and 'dr. who'

and who is this very mysterious 'we' you speak of?

yeah

no one hides from God

 

[Magenta]

I was called a legalist for putting "likes" on a particular person's posts LOLOLOL

 

[ladylynn]

Amen !!!!!!!!!!!! Except that we do not apply grace, we accept it.

Yes, much like when people talk about "applying the blood" We already have the shed blood that paid for all our sins. We don't "apply it" each time., we receive the truth of that reality by faith. And so with grace.. we keep receiving that realization of the gift each time. It is a realization of the kind of love God has for us and more about what it means. Growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

We are finding out more and more as we read the Bible and walk in the Holy Spirit what our salvation means. As someone I heard say., it's like an ocean that we are only just beginning to learn about the length and depths of. His love for us goes farther than we first realized. And then our love for Him grows because as we learn about how He loves us., we are able to love Him more.

We love Him because He first loved us. And then we are able to love others because we are full and not lacking.

 

[Magenta]

...We love Him because He first loved us. And then we are able to love others because we are full and not lacking.

Who is this "we"? Because the person who first put a like on your post goes around slandering others, and pretending they don't. I just don't see any love in that.

 

[ember]

Who is this "we"? Because the person who first put a like on your post goes around slandering others, and pretending they don't. I just don't see any love in that.

did you enjoy that?

I mean apart from the fact it is not true

ok...back on ignore then

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

btw, I just noticed something that isn't true. GOD's law is written on our hearts, not the new covenant. Not sure what you meant by that, but it's simply not true.

Think again....

2 Corinthians 3:3-18[SUP]3 [/SUP]Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord."

Hebrews 8:6-13
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus washes us clean of sin, so we are righteous.
It is not Jesus's righteousness that makes us righteous. We are righteous because our faith is deemed as righteousness.
But we are not allowed to walk in sin and claim we are righteous.

So God does not see Christs righteousness instead of our sin, he sees a repented redeemed sinner turned saint.

I have heard this righteousness argument but it is not biblical.

“He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.”
1 Peter 2:24

that contradicts itself. Are we washed or not washed?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So your saying that you can cheat on your wife and rob steal and kill and still be accepted into the Kingdom of Heaven

Are you sinless? If not. then according to your standard how can you make it to heaven?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Unfortunately I was a bit unclear. I am suggesting hyper-grace argument is saying we can be called righteous and sin, but I disagree, I would say this is heresy.

So your sinless too??

If not. You like the other guy just condemned yourself to hell

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's not what, but Who.

Jesus said no one is good but God..

Guess some people do not agree with him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is presenting a false dichotomy. We are saved by grace; created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Teaching both is a more balanced view than focusing on just one or the other, which creates an imbalance.

Yes, But many in here preach otherwise. That grace and works are required, otherwise you will go to hell. If I say a child of God will work. they call me hypergrace..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To these guys grace is defined as anti-work (i.e., anti-do-anything). Thus the false dichotomy.

see, I rest my case.. HRFTD demands works to be saved..

It is far different to say a child of God WILL WORK because God changed him, and must work, like HRFTD and others preach.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As long as the corpse keeps moving, we'll have to keep driving stakes into its heart.

and as long as you keep preaching works, and against grace, we will keep standing for truth.