Communication

[coby]

It's lack of respect or caring what others need and focusing on what makes us happy instead of listening and responding in a manner that shows we truly care about the person we are talking too.

Online makes it harder for true concern to come through and easier for people to be rude and not notice they are offending someone. They can't see the grown.

But I tend to skim through the jokes...like when kids are making faces while people are talking.,,if they are yours and you love them, you can tell them to stop. If they arent, then you just move the conversation to another room.

But back on track...what is the whole method?

I like it when my kids makes jokes and join the conversation. With arrogant people who think they're so fantastic and treat you like they treat kids I'll just go to another house with kids.

 

[like-minded66]

Hey? That's not such a new concept. The name is new, but the concept has been around -- that I know of -- since the 70's. I learned it when I was learning how to do counseling. And then I came across it again for how-to-write-a-critique. (Related to working with other writers.)

Except the way I was taught it goes faster and something is different, but I'm not picking up what. So, if you can tell me what I'm missing, I can at least figure out what that missing part is to see if it might help more if I use it.

The method I learned was
1. Say something positive about the person in relationship to what you're about to request.
2. State the problem as it affects you and what it feels like.
3. Ask for what you want.
4. Negotiate.
5. End with something positive.

Example.
1. I love watching you with your cats. You obviously love them and they trust you implicitly, which is saying a lot considering cats are picky who they'll love.
2. One of your cats is in heat though, and the toms have been yowling most of the day and night. I keep thinking I'm hearing a hurt child, which freaks me out, until I realize what it really is. After a while the noise unhinges me.
3. Is there anything you can do to stop that?
4. And I'm really asking because I know you know more about cats in heat than I do. Does keeping your cat inside the entire time she is in heat stop the toms from "calling?"
5. Thank you for helping with this problem. I really do love seeing your cats protecting the neighborhood and I see how much you'll do for yours. What are their names?

Are the two the same method, or is there a difference? I'm thinking if we can compare them, it might streamline more. Or they might just be the same thing and I'm not catching they are.

Yes I think it is from the 70s, here's a link on the origins Google Answers: Whole Message Model

I think they're both the same, the nomenclature is just different - you combined my step 2 and 3 into your step 2, and your step 3 and 4 is my step 4.

That's a good example, really thought out

 

[Magenta]

I have both. I have meaningful face to face conversations with my family, and I come on here. Without texting online I wouldn't be able to reach people all over the world with the truth. I think it's disrespectful to talk or text on your phone when someone is trying to have a face to face conversation with you. There's a time and place for everything, but I don't think technology is bad (yet). I do think that in the future, Lord willing the world lasts that long, that it will be used for great evils against mankind.

Technology is already being used for evils against humanity. People are being swindled and scammed and defrauded of their life savings and identity theft is rampant... not to mention all the abuse that happens and young people taking their lives because they have no defenses developed against being bullied, and blackmailed through the use of this very technology that we use here. Human beings have now got a way to do all these things to each other without leaving the comfort of their homes. They no longer have to be the artful dodger braving the crowds at midday, no, all they have to do is set up a craigslist account or troll the singles' sites or any site, really. And let's not even start in on what the government is doing with this technology. The technology isn't bad, that is true. Human nature is rotten, though, and has been since the fall. Maybe you meant something else, though? I wonder what it might have been. Subcutaneous chips?

 

[like-minded66]

One thing I noticed missing from the compendium of your original post is how impatient people have become with the advent of this digital age. Remember when a letter would maybe take a week to reach the destination? And then you would have to maybe wait another week before you heard back? There was a lot of time allowed to pass between ideas exchanged, which generated a more fertile ground for things to grow, being solidly rooted and pondered, percolating through the psyche. Now people instant message, and if they do not get a response in seconds or minutes it is a catastrophe, a slight, something is wrong, what is going on, what is the matter, did I do something wrong, did something bad happen to the other person? It isn't just this instant gratification in messaging but in other areas of business also. People seem to think that because things are done digitally that they can get their results unreasonably fast and effortlessly and they should therefore not have to pay as much. People's unrealistic expectations have skyrocketed. Were people always like this, being so unrealistic and unreasonable? LOL. Maybe! I have had people come into where I work when I was overloaded with orders to do, and they thought they could just wait for theirs to be done, presto, it'll only take a few minutes right? As if I had nothing else to do.

Another thing I notice about digital communications is how easily ideas are skewed; sometimes it even looks to be deliberate, and it is often subtle, but even when it is a gross misrepresentation, the person doing it will rarely take responsibility for it, even when the proof is staring them in the face. It boggles my mind

Very true, thanks for noting that. The first thing that is mentioned of love is patience (1 Corinthians 13). We are living in the last of the last days because Jesus said people's love would grow cold. You're right, even in talking to someone, one tends to feel like you have to spit it out so fast because people don't have time to even listen to you anymore. Yeah and like you said, people are very sensitive and touchy. That's another thing that Jesus said would mark the end, offenses. Yes I believe people have always been unrealistic and unreasonable because of sin but I believe we've reached new heights and depths of sin with the advent of the digital age.

Right - people have become 'lazy' in communication because of the new convenience of it. It takes more work to talk face to face then it does to type behind a phone or computer. So people tend to not put as much effort into it causing misspellings, broken thoughts, no punctuation etc. which leads to misunderstandings, confusion, being offended etc.

As far as people not taking responsibility when the proof is staring them in the face, we're living in these times:
(2 Timothy 3:1-9)
Understand that the last days will be dangerous times. 2 People will be selfish and love money. They will be the kind of people who brag and who are proud. They will slander others, and they will be disobedient to their parents. They will be ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, contrary, and critical. They will be without self-control and brutal, and they won’t love what is good. 4 They will be people who are disloyal, reckless, and conceited. They will love pleasure instead of loving God. 5 They will look like they are religious but deny God’s power. Avoid people like this. 6 Some will slither into households and control immature women who are burdened with sins and driven by all kinds of desires. 7 These women are always learning, but they can never arrive at an understanding of the truth. 8 These people oppose the truth in the same way that Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses. Their minds are corrupt and their faith is counterfeit. 9 But they won’t get very far. Their foolishness will become obvious to everyone like those others.

 

[like-minded66]

I have both. I have meaningful face to face conversations with my family, and I come on here. Without texting online I wouldn't be able to reach people all over the world with the truth. I think it's disrespectful to talk or text on your phone when someone is trying to have a face to face conversation with you. There's a time and place for everything, but I don't think technology is bad (yet). I do think that in the future, Lord willing the world lasts that long, that it will be used for great evils against mankind.

Devices can be used for great good but they also can be used for great evils. You bring up a good point. Most people don't even think of how disrespectful it is to text or read something on your smartphone when you're talking face to face with someone. We're so conditioned to have this device in our hands and scroll through whatever we're reading, we've lost touch at how rude it is. Its hard but me and my wife are trying to get into the habit of not answering texts or calls when we're spending time together. As people, we have to unlearn some of these bad habits to be healthy again.

 

[like-minded66]

Technology is already being used for evils against humanity. People are being swindled and scammed and defrauded of their life savings and identity theft is rampant... not to mention all the abuse that happens and young people taking their lives because they have no defenses developed against being bullied, and blackmailed through the use of this very technology that we use here. Human beings have now got a way to do all these things to each other without leaving the comfort of their homes. They no longer have to be the artful dodger braving the crowds at midday, no, all they have to do is set up a craigslist account or troll the singles' sites or any site, really. And let's not even start in on what the government is doing with this technology. The technology isn't bad, that is true. Human nature is rotten, though, and has been since the fall. Maybe you meant something else, though? I wonder what it might have been. Subcutaneous chips?

Romans 1:30
They invent ways to be evil...

 

[Ariel82]

I was just having a conversation with my son about constructive criticism. Had him read an article and write 3 letters of apology because he called someone ugly and made another student feel stupid, his teacher wrote that "really" was not constructive...he is 10 by the way....

To the point the whole method sounds similar to the PIP which it calls the sandwich method...something positive, what needs improvement and ending with something positive and how to improve.

Communication needs to be taught and sometimes jokes work and sometimes it not the time or place.

You have to gauge who is in the conversation.

Online forrums you kind of follow the lead of who posted the thread..it's polite. Kind of like going to someone's house, you follow their lead about what the kids are allowed and not allowed to do. In the same manner you are always welcome to leave if you don't like the request or stay and continue to be rude. Its free will.

 

[Ariel82]

I like it when my kids makes jokes and join the conversation. With arrogant people who think they're so fantastic and treat you like they treat kids I'll just go to another house with kids.

I like when my kids add constructively to the conversation, but they should know when enough is enough.

Calling people arrogant and implying that they think they are "fantastic" merely because they stated a simple request, doesn't really promote communication.

Personally I wonder what does it teach the kids? If they don't like what someone is saying, just leave angry and bitter?

Self control is learned through practice and patience and brotherly kindness through the testing of your faith.

 

[Depleted]

One thing I noticed missing from the compendium of your original post is how impatient people have become with the advent of this digital age. Remember when a letter would maybe take a week to reach the destination? And then you would have to maybe wait another week before you heard back? There was a lot of time allowed to pass between ideas exchanged, which generated a more fertile ground for things to grow, being solidly rooted and pondered, percolating through the psyche. Now people instant message, and if they do not get a response in seconds or minutes it is a catastrophe, a slight, something is wrong, what is going on, what is the matter, did I do something wrong, did something bad happen to the other person? It isn't just this instant gratification in messaging but in other areas of business also. People seem to think that because things are done digitally that they can get their results unreasonably fast and effortlessly and they should therefore not have to pay as much. People's unrealistic expectations have skyrocketed. Were people always like this, being so unrealistic and unreasonable? LOL. Maybe! I have had people come into where I work when I was overloaded with orders to do, and they thought they could just wait for theirs to be done, presto, it'll only take a few minutes right? As if I had nothing else to do.

Another thing I notice about digital communications is how easily ideas are skewed; sometimes it even looks to be deliberate, and it is often subtle, but even when it is a gross misrepresentation, the person doing it will rarely take responsibility for it, even when the proof is staring them in the face. It boggles my mind

I am NOT impatient!

(Might have hit a little too close to home. lol)

 

[Depleted]

Yes I think it is from the 70s, here's a link on the origins Google Answers: Whole Message Model

I think they're both the same, the nomenclature is just different - you combined my step 2 and 3 into your step 2, and your step 3 and 4 is my step 4.

That's a good example, really thought out

Hmm. Probably was impatient in the 70's too, so was off thinking something else when they gave the name of this. lol

 

[Depleted]

Very true, thanks for noting that. The first thing that is mentioned of love is patience (1 Corinthians 13). We are living in the last of the last days because Jesus said people's love would grow cold. You're right, even in talking to someone, one tends to feel like you have to spit it out so fast because people don't have time to even listen to you anymore. Yeah and like you said, people are very sensitive and touchy. That's another thing that Jesus said would mark the end, offenses. Yes I believe people have always been unrealistic and unreasonable because of sin but I believe we've reached new heights and depths of sin with the advent of the digital age.

Right - people have become 'lazy' in communication because of the new convenience of it. It takes more work to talk face to face then it does to type behind a phone or computer. So people tend to not put as much effort into it causing misspellings, broken thoughts, no punctuation etc. which leads to misunderstandings, confusion, being offended etc.

As far as people not taking responsibility when the proof is staring them in the face, we're living in these times:
(2 Timothy 3:1-9)
Understand that the last days will be dangerous times. 2 People will be selfish and love money. They will be the kind of people who brag and who are proud. They will slander others, and they will be disobedient to their parents. They will be ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, contrary, and critical. They will be without self-control and brutal, and they won’t love what is good. 4 They will be people who are disloyal, reckless, and conceited. They will love pleasure instead of loving God. 5 They will look like they are religious but deny God’s power. Avoid people like this. 6 Some will slither into households and control immature women who are burdened with sins and driven by all kinds of desires. 7 These women are always learning, but they can never arrive at an understanding of the truth. 8 These people oppose the truth in the same way that Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses. Their minds are corrupt and their faith is counterfeit. 9 But they won’t get very far. Their foolishness will become obvious to everyone like those others.

Ever read the story of Nero? I don't think Paul was prophesying about the future. I think that's a description of all people without saving grace. I really don't think people are worse today.We've never been good for so long, it doesn't dawn on many what good is.

 

[Depleted]

I was just having a conversation with my son about constructive criticism. Had him read an article and write 3 letters of apology because he called someone ugly and made another student feel stupid, his teacher wrote that "really" was not constructive...he is 10 by the way....

To the point the whole method sounds similar to the PIP which it calls the sandwich method...something positive, what needs improvement and ending with something positive and how to improve.

Communication needs to be taught and sometimes jokes work and sometimes it not the time or place.

You have to gauge who is in the conversation.

Online forrums you kind of follow the lead of who posted the thread..it's polite. Kind of like going to someone's house, you follow their lead about what the kids are allowed and not allowed to do. In the same manner you are always welcome to leave if you don't like the request or stay and continue to be rude. Its free will.

Online forums aren't like going to someone's house, unless the owner of the site post. It's more like congregating in a public park. Lots of people to talk to, try and find some you want to talk to, but go home because someone rubs you the wrong way? That's an option but not the only option.

What if that person is a bully? All he learns is if he bullies everyone let's him.

What if someone is being hurtful? If we leave, then he never finds out he is hurtful?

What if he's teaching younger folks garbage? We just let the younger folks think that's the truth?

I wouldn't even do that in someone else's house.

As for rude? I really think that word is overused today. "Rude" has come to mean "you didn't let me have my own way." I gave up on that word after it was used on me once to often when I wasn't being rude. (Not to be confused with people calling me that when I AM rude.) Thin aisles in a store, a woman was reading the ingredients on boxes of cereal and her cart was blocking the aisle. She was reading. Seemed impolite to make her lose her place simply to do something I could do, so I brought her cart back closer to her and was called "rude" for the effort. Another time I was checking out at a store, and afterward the cashier said, "Happy Mother's Day" to me. I'm not a mom. I thought it was nice and didn't want to say that, but also didn't want to assume she was a mom either, so I thanked her. (Some women really do get hurt if they wanted to be a mom but never had a child. I'm not one of them, but I've had friends like that, so I don't discount that tender spot.) I was "rude" for not saying it back.

That's about when I gave up on the word "rude." Communicate. If everyone uses whatever word they want to say something, there is no more communications.

Sorry. That sounded like a holier-than-thou rant, but it is simply where we disagree. Not hating you, thinking you're a bully, thinking you're hurtful, or trying to teach me something. Simply disagreeing. (And it might help to know I have a degree in communications, so this is one of my favorite topics.)

 

[Depleted]

Devices can be used for great good but they also can be used for great evils. You bring up a good point. Most people don't even think of how disrespectful it is to text or read something on your smartphone when you're talking face to face with someone. We're so conditioned to have this device in our hands and scroll through whatever we're reading, we've lost touch at how rude it is. Its hard but me and my wife are trying to get into the habit of not answering texts or calls when we're spending time together. As people, we have to unlearn some of these bad habits to be healthy again.

Pet Peeve alert: I also find it annoying that I'm the only one walking on the sidewalk paying attention where I'm going. I'm the one who has to duck to avoid people walking, riding their bikes, or driving while on their phones. (And, yes, I have almost been run over by cars when the driver is staring at their phone and I'm ON THE SIDEWALK!!!

)

Warning folks! I live in Lynnie LaLaLand! Don't keep assuming I'm the one paying attention. I'm the one who forgets where she parks her car so walks four blocks to get to my car that was only half a block away. THIS is the person you've put in charge of paying attention! NOT bright!

 

[Ariel82]

I wouldn't leave the house either. Kinda of my point. That to leave angry and bitter is not the best solution. Its better to work out the miscommunication if possible with out anger or bitterness.

However I believe it better to leave than say words in anger.

It's really about self control and why you engage in conversation in the first place.

People come on here for different reasons.

Yes, we should stand up to bullies and false teachers, but if someone legit comes on and want to discuss something, we should respect that and not hijack the thread. Especially if they say something.

Anyway, I like technology to a point. It allows you to talk to people far away easily.

However we should all put down the electronics when trying to spend time with others face to face

 

[coby]

I like when my kids add constructively to the conversation, but they should know when enough is enough.

Calling people arrogant and implying that they think they are "fantastic" merely because they stated a simple request, doesn't really promote communication.

Personally I wonder what does it teach the kids? If they don't like what someone is saying, just leave angry and bitter?

Self control is learned through practice and patience and brotherly kindness through the testing of your faith.

A simple request is absolutely no problem at all. I'd just say oh sorry if it bothers you. But the way people in this thread treat grown ups lol gimme a break. Why don't you just say: go play in your room? Lol and then say that the ones who post a pic and even say sorry don't respect you.

 

[Ariel82]

Lol I tend to talk through people. Hahaha my ex calls to say something and he hasn't even finished or I just talk straight through it and he says please can you first listen?
On forums you can just do that and noone notices it.
I mean think of it. Irl a few people are having a serious conversation, standing in a circle and you just bump in without even knowing them with a joke or something. I'd never even consider doing that. On internet you just bump in or quote someone. Maybe that's why I love it. It's so boring when people don't even hear you and keep on talking.

I am sorry did you say something?

 

[Ariel82]

You can only communicate when you have a common basis and reason for talking. It helps to have a common goal or reason.

For example our common goal for posting on this thread might be that we want to talk about communication. Perhaps share ways to improve communication, our views on how technology has helped our hindered relationships and communication, etc.

I think it would be nice to teach ourselves and our children cell phone etiquette...no texting while walking, driving or biking, ...spend time for face to face conversation..learn to read body language..

Communication is more than just words and as many have already stated, listening is key.

 

[Ariel82]

*My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry,*because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires.*Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.*Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. - James 1:19-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James1:19-22&version=NIV

 

[coby]

I am sorry did you say something?

I wouldn't dare to anymore. Help! Etiquette.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j08psv_-_wg

 

[tanakh]

I think the rot set in when mobile phones stopped being just phones and started to aquire games, cameras and other things that distract us. Instead of being a useful tool they have become an obsessive addiction for many people.