anyone have any thoughts on...

jasonj · Mar 2, 2016

The "resurrection of many holy people" that occurred when Christ died on the cross? was it simply a sign for belief? is this the first resurrection spoken of in scripture? because the word says these people were "holy" are they people from before the flood? are they prophets? if they were resurrected, and also lazurus and others.....will they die again and wait for a future resurrection ? or did the resurrection come with Christ? just hoping to discuss throwing thoughts out there.....Thanks God bless you

Chuckt · Mar 2, 2016

Matthew 27:52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.

Ephesians 4:8 This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people."

Psalm 68:18 When you ascended on high, you took many captives; you received gifts from people, even from the rebellious-- that you, LORD God, might dwell there.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

Chuckt · Mar 2, 2016

jasonj said:

The "resurrection of many holy people" that occurred when Christ died on the cross? was it simply a sign for belief? is this the first resurrection spoken of in scripture? because the word says these people were "holy" are they people from before the flood? are they prophets? if they were resurrected, and also lazurus and others.....will they die again and wait for a future resurrection ? or did the resurrection come with Christ? just hoping to discuss throwing thoughts out there.....Thanks God bless you

There were two compartments in hell. I believe he emptied out the compartment to Abraham's bosom.

jasonj · Mar 2, 2016

thanks for the thought, would it be a hassle if I asked about why you believe there are 2 compartments in hell? not for critique but I'm curious where the thought comes from, thanks

Chuckt · Mar 2, 2016

jasonj said:

You are never a hastle.

Luke 16:19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luke 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luke 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Abraham's bosom is where the righteous went and were comforted. The other compartment was full of torment.
There was a great gulf fixed so that people couldn't pass between the two.

jasonj · Mar 2, 2016

Chuckt said:

You are never a hastle.

Luke 16:19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luke 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luke 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Abraham's bosom is where the righteous went and were comforted. The other compartment was full of torment.
There was a great gulf fixed so that people couldn't pass between the two.

thanks for the response. I have always taken these words as lazarus went to Abrahams side, but never had considered it or even thought of it being a different compartment in hell. I love talking with people in order to see things from a different mind it always brings different angles and things to consider, I appreciate your time thanx again....God bless you

Chuckt · Mar 2, 2016

jasonj said:

Some people believe that Abraham's Bosom was the throne room of God.

jasonj · Mar 2, 2016

Chuckt said:

wow that's interesting I also haven't heard that....is that based on view the body being Gods temple do you know?

Chuckt · Mar 2, 2016

jasonj said:

I'm thinking that the dead had to be judged somehow.
And Jesus is the first born out from among the dead.
And Jesus ascended to His Father.
And He led captivity captive so I think it is probably also a rapture but people will argue with me if I call it that.

jasonj · Mar 2, 2016

Chuckt said:

I have a view that people will argue with also lol so I know the feeling, I actuall agree with what you said and a rapture is a good term in my humble opinion

jasonj · Mar 2, 2016

jasonj said:

I was wondering if it tied into those who revelation says "no lie was found in their mouths they are blamesless" because it is written many holy people" I just seem to think constantly about these things no matter what I'm doing at times

jasonj · Mar 2, 2016

Chuckt said:

You are never a hastle.

Luke 16:19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luke 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luke 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Abraham's bosom is where the righteous went and were comforted. The other compartment was full of torment.
There was a great gulf fixed so that people couldn't pass between the two.

something that supports somewhat what you conclude here is what Jesus said to the criminal on the cross when he said "today you will be with me in paradise" "paradise could refer to just what you are saying.

Chuckt · Mar 2, 2016

jasonj said:

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]Strong's Number: g3857[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]Greek: paradeisos[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Paradise:
is an Oriental word, first used by the historian Xenophon, denoting "the parks of Persian kings and nobles." It is of Persian origin (Old Pers. pairidaeza, akin to Gk. peri, "around," and teichos, "a wall") whence it passed into Greek. See the Sept., e.g., in Neh 2:8; Ecc 2:5; Sgs 4:13. The Sept. translators used it of the garden of Eden, Gen 2:8, and in other respects, e.g., Num 24:6; Isa 1:30; Jer 29:5; Eze 31:8,9.In Luk 23:43, the promise of the Lord to the repentant robber was fulfilled the same day; Christ, at His death, having committed His spirit to the Father, went in spirit immediately into Heaven itself, the dwelling place of God (the Lord's mention of the place as "paradise" must have been a great comfort to the malefactor; to the oriental mind it expressed the sum total of blessedness). Thither the Apostle Paul was caught up, 2Cr 12:4, spoken of as "the third heaven" (ver. 3 does not introduce a different vision), beyond the heavens of the natural creation (see Hbr 4:14, RV, with reference to the Ascension). The same region is mentioned inRev 2:7, where the "tree of life," the figurative antitype of that in Eden, held out to the overcomer, is spoken of as being in "the Paradise of God" (RV), marg., "garden," as inGen 2:8.

-Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words:

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

Chuckt · Mar 2, 2016

among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters
a garden, pleasure ground
1. grove, park
the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise
the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world
heaven

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

Chuckt · Mar 2, 2016

Various saints in Jerusalem (Matthew 27:50–53). The Bible mentions some resurrections that occurred en masse at the resurrection of Christ. When Jesus died, “the earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open” (verses 51–52). Those open tombs remained open until the third day. At that time, “the bodies of many holy people . . . were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people” (verses 52–53). On the day that Jesus was raised to life, these saints were also raised and became witnesses in Jerusalem of the life that only Jesus can give.

How many people were raised from the dead in the Bible?

Chuckt · Mar 2, 2016

The raising of the saints fits into the overall rhetorical devices and strategies used by Matthew in his gospel. Examining Ezekiel 37 and the bones raised to life in connection with this story reveals that an Old Testament prophecy was fulfilled in the raising of these saints. Additionally, the raising of the saints relates directly to the coming kingdom. The raising of a few and not all of the saints shows that Jesus has power to resurrect, but also points forward to the second coming and judgment of Jesus Christ, which will include all those whose names are written in the Book Life by faith in the grace of God. Knowing that Jesus has died and conquered death through His resurrection ought to hasten our desire to repent and trust Him alone for salvation so we too can one day be resurrected “in the twinkling of an eye” (1 Corinthians 15:52).

What is the meaning of those who were raised to life at Jesus' death (Matthew 27:52-53)?

jasonj · Mar 2, 2016

as I was reading here I'm reminded that Jesus told mary outside the tomb 3 days after his death that he hadn't yet returned to the father. knowing that he did commit his spirit to God at the cross, and knowing jesus who spoke always in the spirit...I wonder about the definition and explaination in this dictionary. definitely is making me think about some things and that was my thought process in posting.im lead now to a lot of other things to consider, thanks again for the insight

wattie · Mar 2, 2016

Yeah.. this was covered in another thread with a slightly different title..

Jesus never died spiritually on the cross, because He is God. He was crucified.. then descended to Sheol.. Hades.. 'the abode of the dead'.. and resurrected saints awaiting to be delivered.

These saints then appeared alive to others. I think the bible also supports them dieing again later.. not sure on that one though.

After Jesus resurrected the saints.. He came back to the tomb and resurrected His fleshly body. Of course.. He had the nail holes.. but He was transfigured.. in full glory. His body no longer susceptible to decay most likely.

As chuckt has written.. the abode of the dead.. had a waiting place for those destined to be in eternal hell.. and a seperate place.. for those saints awaiting resurrection. A great gulf seperating them.

Jesus took the saints out of that Abraham's Bosom.. and so I assume what is left is those awaiting final eternal hell.. and no one else in that place.

Believers dieing now.. not going 'under the earth' but to the heavenly realm where Christ Has now ascended to.

Chuckt · Mar 2, 2016

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

So, would it have been possible that Jesus through His divine nature and even while His human body lay dead could have displayed His power through resurrection? Absolutely. Jesus, speaking of His body said, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up,” (John 2:19). Certainly, it was “God” who raised His body (Rom. 10:9, 1 Pet. 1:21), and Jesus is God. But Scripture also teaches that the Father raised Him (Gal. 1:1, Eph. 1:17,20). Even the Holy Spirit is said to have raised Him (Romans 8:11). So, the act of raising Jesus from the dead was not the operation merely of one person within the Trinity but was a cooperative act done by the power of the divine substance. The fact that the Bible teaches that God raised Jesus from the dead and that Jesus raised Himself is yet another testament to Christ’s divinity.
For more on the Trinity, see http://carm.org/trinity and http://carm.org/what-trinity.

https://carm.org/jesus-raise-himself

Grace777x70 · Mar 2, 2016

God the Father in the power of the Holy Spirit rose Jesus from the dead with His own blood of the covenant.

.Hebrews 13:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,

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