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D
I have a lot of speculation on that deal with dead men walking and where the thief on the cross went after death, but that is all they are -- speculations. The Bible doesn't tell us more.
Y'all do understand you're giving each other theories, right? Theories, not doctrine. I worry about people turning theories into doctrine on here too easily.
Y'all do understand you're giving each other theories, right? Theories, not doctrine. I worry about people turning theories into doctrine on here too easily.
You'll find more in 1 Peter 3 about the "spirits in prison", which was prophesied in Isaiah 42:7 for Christ's first coming.
Don't forget this later passage in 1 Peter 4 that goes with that:
1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
KJV
Like our Lord Jesus said to the Jews, God is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for all live unto Him (Luke 20:38).
Don't forget this later passage in 1 Peter 4 that goes with that:
1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
KJV
Like our Lord Jesus said to the Jews, God is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for all live unto Him (Luke 20:38).
J
Agree. I don't recall anybody who knew what they were talking about, in terms of obscure and difficult Bible passages, ever talking in terms of their theories being doctrine, rather always use "I believe" or "a possible explanation" sorts of contexts for their comments. It's a red flag, passages like this one, for anybody to be categorical, when exact details of this event are not in scripture.
It's not known if those resurrected were glorified bodies, or like Lazarus, or exactly who they were, in terms of being any whole groups, just that they were saints. The scripture seems to imply they were known to living people at the time, as you'd have to wonder how a stranger, appearing to the people, would necessarily mean anything, what this would have demonstrated. Also, it's not like the rapture or a general resurrection: this group is appearing to people around Jerusalem, out on the streets or whatever, as the Lord appeared to many, spent time on earth to show His resurrection, prior to His ascension. The big resurrections are yet future in subsequent scripture.
There is one interesting theory from scripture, that this group were glorified saints of a firstfruits type, like Christ, hearkening back to a small, sample grain offering and possible prophecy of the event, here in scripture,
Leviticus 23:10-12 Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When you come into the land that I give you and reap its harvest, you shall bring the sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest, and he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, so that you may be accepted. On the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. And on the day when you wave the sheaf, you shall offer a male lamb a year old without blemish as a burnt offering to the LORD.
What I've wondered about these people, though, is how they could be glorified and no mention of the ascension of others to heaven, as the Lord Jesus ascended, though lack of mention proves nothing, of itself.
The honest answer, in any case, is that nobody knows the details of this, all theologians have ever done is offer possible explanations. Granted there is the obvious question, around here: but what could anybody have known the past couple thousand years, who didn't have an anonymous message board login? If you see it on ChristianChat, it's got to be true! (Though hardly anybody agrees... hmm...)
It's not known if those resurrected were glorified bodies, or like Lazarus, or exactly who they were, in terms of being any whole groups, just that they were saints. The scripture seems to imply they were known to living people at the time, as you'd have to wonder how a stranger, appearing to the people, would necessarily mean anything, what this would have demonstrated. Also, it's not like the rapture or a general resurrection: this group is appearing to people around Jerusalem, out on the streets or whatever, as the Lord appeared to many, spent time on earth to show His resurrection, prior to His ascension. The big resurrections are yet future in subsequent scripture.
There is one interesting theory from scripture, that this group were glorified saints of a firstfruits type, like Christ, hearkening back to a small, sample grain offering and possible prophecy of the event, here in scripture,
Leviticus 23:10-12 Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When you come into the land that I give you and reap its harvest, you shall bring the sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest, and he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, so that you may be accepted. On the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. And on the day when you wave the sheaf, you shall offer a male lamb a year old without blemish as a burnt offering to the LORD.
What I've wondered about these people, though, is how they could be glorified and no mention of the ascension of others to heaven, as the Lord Jesus ascended, though lack of mention proves nothing, of itself.
The honest answer, in any case, is that nobody knows the details of this, all theologians have ever done is offer possible explanations. Granted there is the obvious question, around here: but what could anybody have known the past couple thousand years, who didn't have an anonymous message board login? If you see it on ChristianChat, it's got to be true! (Though hardly anybody agrees... hmm...)
What Jesus said to the believing malefactor on the cross crucified with Him is not... a theory. It is The Lord Jesus' Own Words. Either you believe His Words or you don't, and it obvious you do not but instead would rather listen to those against that passage which are actually those doing the real speculation.
Luke 23:42-46
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise."
44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, He said, Father, into Thy hands I commend My spirit: and having said thus, He gave up the ghost.
KJV
Luke 23:42-46
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise."
44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, He said, Father, into Thy hands I commend My spirit: and having said thus, He gave up the ghost.
KJV
Here is one I was looking at awhile back, which I thought was interesting (I reduced it to a smaller size here) so it wouldnt get lost in too many words, but more towards the middle part here
Prov 14:31 He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.
James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
This one, it says,
1Sam 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.
An example of which beggar even prince can be seen in a picture of Abraham
Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
The rich man not honouring the LORD in having mercy upon him (Prov 14:1)
Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
As it says, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory
Even as Abraham was regarded as a mighty prince amoung them, saying,
Gen 23:6 Hear us (Abraham) my lord: thou art a mighty prince among us
The LORD made both of these
1Sam 2:7 The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.
This one just reminds of that picture, the whole verse again
1Sam 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory:
Although the rich man "looked up" able to see above him to see the beggar with Abraham, which in this verse seems to equate it with the throne of glory there, but thats a little unclear to me.
Prov 14:31 He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.
James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
This one, it says,
1Sam 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.
An example of which beggar even prince can be seen in a picture of Abraham
Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
The rich man not honouring the LORD in having mercy upon him (Prov 14:1)
Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
As it says, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory
Even as Abraham was regarded as a mighty prince amoung them, saying,
Gen 23:6 Hear us (Abraham) my lord: thou art a mighty prince among us
The LORD made both of these
1Sam 2:7 The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.
This one just reminds of that picture, the whole verse again
1Sam 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory:
Although the rich man "looked up" able to see above him to see the beggar with Abraham, which in this verse seems to equate it with the throne of glory there, but thats a little unclear to me.
The Jew's confusion here about this event of resurrection on the day of Christ's death on the cross comes from their not understanding what the resurrection is, since they still want to think when the body is dead, so is one's spirit.
That's why they would even deny our Lord's Own Words to the malefactor being in Paradise with Him on that day. No wonder they don't understand about Peter declaring Jesus at His resurrection preaching to the "spirits in prison" either.
That's why they would even deny our Lord's Own Words to the malefactor being in Paradise with Him on that day. No wonder they don't understand about Peter declaring Jesus at His resurrection preaching to the "spirits in prison" either.
D
Not for nothing, but I fully believe people who witness an event understand it better than people 2000 years later speculating. So, just because you think you have all the answers doesn't mean I'm buying any of them. Matter of fact, I tend to dismiss people who think they have all answers. Not that this will change your mind. Just telling you what I'm thinking.
D
hi Jason. I believe these were people who died before Jesus came with salvation. In the book o f peter it talks about Jesus going into the graves of those who had passed on before the way of Salvation could be given . Peter says he was in the grave for three days bringing the gospel to those who had died never hearing of it. This is the only time this will happen though, beause since then EVERYONE has had the opportunity to accept salvation through Christ. I rhink it was most gracious, merciful and loving of God to give these people a chance to redeem themselves. But since then, there are no more chances after having the gospel available for over 2000 years. Let me know what you think.
J
and I'm reminded that Jesus said " I have the power to lay down my life and to take it up again, this command I received from my Father. to me it states that God always is the source behind Jesus or in Him.the fact that they are one and we end up trying to identify them separately seems strange. the 3 The Father, the son and the spirit are One. they were always one even berfore Jesus was revealed to the world. God said it.....so it is. He said I will rise on the third day...just as he said let there be light ans light became...so was the resurrection God word creates. thank you for the response God bless