Did He, Or Didn't He?

[PeterJens]

Concept - Eternal life life with Christ that goes on forever, or fellowship with Christ that could go on forever.

On this earth we are given Eternal Life - fellowship with Christ that could go on forever.

The issue is when we have fellowship with Christ do we want to abide or fade away. Jesus warns us different people will take different roads. Walking with Jesus we are in the Kingdom, it is here now. The choices we make in writing, talking sharing are truths of the Kingdom we have. Those who slander those of the Kingdom are slandering His people.

Now the reality is some do walk away, but there are those whose faith is not strong enough to accept this.
Even if it hits them in the face.

Revelations - the mark of the beast - calls for patience of the elect. If you accept the mark you are lost.
It implies a real choice. There is no coming back after this. I am sure the OSAS would say, it is just a mark, God would not hold that against us, we are the elect after all, and it is just Gods word.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Salvation is the FIRST ACT of our conversion. VERY, VERY IMPORTANT. It is BOTH Carnal..........in that we are changed from the old carnal sinner we once were into a carnal believer in Christ and our sins have been forgiven, being cleansed of them by the precious blood of Christ..........and Spiritual because once Saved, we are now FREE to begin to grow in Christ, to learn of Christ, and this comes through the filling of us by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, and this is when we become Spiritual believers able to dine on the meat of His Word. The Apostle Paul himself laid all of this out in His Epistles.

One can not be Sanctified UNLESS one is FIRST Saved. However, Salvation IS NOT the end of the road.....it is the BEGINNING of our walk/life with/in Christ.

Day by day, trial by trial, we continue on that journey empowered by, led by, and taught by the Holy Spirit, and we are able (because of this) to accomplish the good works (work of the Kingdom) that God has created us for. These good works are NOT to achieve Salvation, they are to please God, and to be obedient to Him..........to be true to our calling for which He called us for.

Believers who simply go and sit in a corner or something after Salvation, and say......."Well, I'm saved, it's all good now" and do not seek to continue to do the Will of God that He has created them to do, remain in the State of being a Carnal Christian........and the danger in that is what Christ spoke of in Revelation.......the "lukewarm" believer.

Sorry, but that is just all messed up. And I dont have the time to unpack it all for ya. Suffice it to say that the righteous are those who live by faith in Jesus Christ. Our "part” is one singular thing and one only, faith. Faith is the entirety of "our part” in the "Christian walk". Because it is through faith that we receive from God. And there is nothing that we can do or pass on to others that we have not first received from God.

And if you think that by living by faith in Christ, trusting and depending upon Him, that the result will be sitting in a corner doing nothing, then that speaks more to your opinion of Jesus, and His sufficiency, than anything else.

 

[PeterJens]

Why is this interesting? Because it brings to mind more ideas and realities.

Parable of the banquet. The guests were asked to come, but they could not be bothered, they were too busy, it was too much effort. So the banquet was full of everyone the servants could find from the streets, the beggars, those who had nothing and deserved nothing, yet it is those who made it in. This could equally be the church, full of people who want to go, want to be counted but cannot be bothered to follow, or obey, or work, or do anything God wants because that is works and only if it just happens is it of God.

The 12 virgins waiting for the wedding, 6 were prepared for every eventuality, 6 put no effort in and missed the boat.

What is staggering is putting no effort in is now preached as following Jesus and obedience as legalism and evil.

 

[ember]

What is staggering is putting no effort in is now preached as following Jesus and obedience as legalism and evil.

Not here. I have never ever seen that preached here by anyone but you and several others who claim that is what
we believe.

Yah can't make this stuff up! LOL!

 

[p_rehbein]

Sorry, but that is just all messed up. And I dont have the time to unpack it all for ya. Suffice it to say that the righteous are those who live by faith in Jesus Christ. Our "part” is one singular thing and one only, faith. Faith is the entirety of "our part” in the "Christian walk". Because it is through faith that we receive from God. And there is nothing that we can do or pass on to others that we have not first received from God.

And if you think that by living by faith in Christ, trusting and depending upon Him, that the result will be sitting in a corner doing nothing, then that speaks more to your opinion of Jeelsesus, and His sufficiency, than anything .[/QUOTE]

Sorry, that is so very messed up, and reveals your lack of understanding of what I wrote........sadly........sigh

I'll believe in and follow the Word of God........and I laid out the Scriptures for all.......

 

[PeterJens]

"I dont have the time to unpack it all for ya"

This is puffing someone up as the oracle. When did the oracle gain his status or even the belief he can correct or properly understand what someone else is saying. After getting this treatment, it is never a proper answer, just gives the appearance of it to other readers. It disrespects the contributor and raises the belief in the contributor they are answering complex issues with simple off the cuff remarks which do not do it justice.

I do not like this approach because I respect others, and want to put another perspective. These guys are like a truck just rolling over the points and ignoring the content. There is no expectation of respect because none is being given.

 

[Grace777x70]

Maybe that is what they hear when someone says.."We live by the life of Christ in us and the Holy Spirit changes us as a fruit of being in Christ...HIs love in and through us expresses itself in doing good works but all this is done by the life of Christ in us and not from self-effort"..

..I don't know..either they don't understand the Holy Spirit's work in our life because we are a new creation in Christ or what it really means to "be in Christ"..or maybe both??? There is definitely a spiritual blockage happening there of some sort.

Not here. I have never ever seen that preached here by anyone but you and several others who claim that is what
we believe.

Yah can't make this stuff up! LOL!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Concept - Eternal life life with Christ that goes on forever, or fellowship with Christ that could go on forever.

Life is a state.. It is not fellowship. One who is DEAD can have no fellowship..Life is the ability to have fellowship. Although it does not guarantee you will be in perfect fellowship and there will not be flaws, and roadblocks, and other things which hinder a perfect relationship (There is no such thing as a perfect relationship. They all go through hills and valleyes, it is never a straight road with out any obstacles. Well, because we are flawed humans. And we do not know how to have a perfect relationship so we can not.. That is why GOD must be in the center of our relationship.. and why our relationship (fellowship) with God will never be perfect here on earth, but to will suffer obstacles, hills and valleys, Because we are flawed, and can not love him perfectly.)

I know that is hard for people to understand, but those are the fact.. Fellowship does not equal life. I can be alive, in my wifes presence and have no fellowship with her. Because I am being carnal. (self reflecting)

On this earth we are given Eternal Life - fellowship with Christ that could go on forever.

On this earth we are given life, And God calls that life eternal. He did not waste his breath, he meant it. Forever means forever. If it is not forever. GOD LIED?

Fellowship has absolutely nothing to do with life.. except that without life, there can be no fellowship

The issue is when we have fellowship with Christ do we want to abide or fade away. Jesus warns us different people will take different roads. Walking with Jesus we are in the Kingdom, it is here now. The choices we make in writing, talking sharing are truths of the Kingdom we have. Those who slander those of the Kingdom are slandering His people.

Jesus said there is one gate, and it is narrow, and few enter in,, He also says there is a wide gate, which many enter in..

If you enter the worng gate, your lost.. no matter how hard you try.

Now the reality is some do walk away, but there are those whose faith is not strong enough to accept this.
Even if it hits them in the face.

No, They cant walk away, Because like a shared in psalm 139. Even david understood. Wherever I gfo. there you are God. I can not run from your sight, you know my ever move, before I even make it.

Some of you do not want to see this fact. But it is not going to chage the fact. That God knows what you will do 20 years from now if you even alive, You can not do one thing that god did not already know you would do..

And guess what, HE SAVED YOU KNOWING ALL YOUR DIRTY SECRETS PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why is this interesting? Because it brings to mind more ideas and realities.

Parable of the banquet. The guests were asked to come, but they could not be bothered, they were too busy, it was too much effort. So the banquet was full of everyone the servants could find from the streets, the beggars, those who had nothing and deserved nothing, yet it is those who made it in. This could equally be the church, full of people who want to go, want to be counted but cannot be bothered to follow, or obey, or work, or do anything God wants because that is works and only if it just happens is it of God.

The 12 virgins waiting for the wedding, 6 were prepared for every eventuality, 6 put no effort in and missed the boat.

What is staggering is putting no effort in is now preached as following Jesus and obedience as legalism and evil.

legalism is saying we must obey rules to be saved. or salvation will be lost.

Thats what you preach, and you can not even see it..


an apple can run around mad at everyone calling him an apple when he believes he is an orange,

Sadly, he is still an orange, he cannot make himself an apple.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"I dont have the time to unpack it all for ya"

This is puffing someone up as the oracle. When did the oracle gain his status or even the belief he can correct or properly understand what someone else is saying. After getting this treatment, it is never a proper answer, just gives the appearance of it to other readers. It disrespects the contributor and raises the belief in the contributor they are answering complex issues with simple off the cuff remarks which do not do it justice.

I do not like this approach because I respect others, and want to put another perspective. These guys are like a truck just rolling over the points and ignoring the content. There is no expectation of respect because none is being given.

here you go again proving me right.

You never "unpack" everything to anyone who talks to you, or if you do it is rare.. and get mad when we call you out on it.

Here FREE gave the common courtesy to say he did not have time to unpack everything, And you get mad at him. and judge him,,

maybe this will help you remember that next time someone calls you out for doing it like you always do?

Sadly, I doubt it.


You make me laugh..

 

[PeterJens]

Not here. I have never ever seen that preached here by anyone but you and several others who claim that is what
we believe. Yah can't make this stuff up! LOL!

This phrase is an exaguration, a lie, a slander, a denigration, an accusation.

This is what EG wrote on this thread -

"No, I want to stop trusting myself. because I, as well as ALL MEN, have proven without a shadow of the doubt, That everything I do under my own power fails..
I want God to EMPOWER me to do his work.. That is what he does..
God says he becomes my heart, my life giver, my everything,,
Rider on a horse? HA HA.. Never heard that before. But I can see you going there. Because you never desire to listen to what someone says.
A rider forces someone to go someplace. A life giver empowers someone to do something. "

The negative is doing anything. The positive is being empowered to do something.

We are commanded to obey. It does not say do it in my strength not your own, I will empower you and unless you are empowered do nothing.

The spiritual reality is we obey and find we cannot do something. We call out to God and suddenly we can do it.
The Lord answers prayer when it is needed, not before, to make something happen.

To heal in Jesus's name you do not get your healing packs on and test them out, get everything juiced up.
No, when there is need you pray and healing happens.

So yes lack of action is being preached. It is taken that not even trying is the only way because you will fail, not through trying and walking in love, you will overcome. But that is how faith works. You know Gods promise so you act, and God gives you the strength to overcome.

So many are happy to just slander, lie and decry Gods work, because they feel a statement was aimed at their group, when it was merely a statement of disbelief. The truth hurts which is why the response was posted, which is the reality.

 

[PeterJens]

You never "unpack" everything to anyone who talks to you

This is exaguration and slander, and in your words a lie. The truth is, though it passes you by, there is not room often to deal with finer points on a thread like this. So people bring their perspectives.

For you it is just black and white. As long as you stay like this and simplify everything to your edict, no one will remember your contributions or why you put so much effort in. I do admire this, but just expanding your point does not win the day unless you can show how you got there and bring people with you.

I do not get "mad" about anything. You do annoy me with your style, because it is so confrontational and certain.
Calling me out makes me laugh. Again it is just a slander, designed as a put down.

You have a whole armory of this junk, but it is not of the Lord. You must be a petty manager of people, because it is these people who behave like you do. I am sure the people who work for you do so out of intimidation and not love.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This phrase is an exaguration, a lie, a slander, a denigration, an accusation.

This is what EG wrote on this thread -

"No, I want to stop trusting myself. because I, as well as ALL MEN, have proven without a shadow of the doubt, That everything I do under my own power fails..
I want God to EMPOWER me to do his work.. That is what he does..
God says he becomes my heart, my life giver, my everything,,
Rider on a horse? HA HA.. Never heard that before. But I can see you going there. Because you never desire to listen to what someone says.
A rider forces someone to go someplace. A life giver empowers someone to do something. "

The negative is doing anything. The positive is being empowered to do something.

We are commanded to obey. It does not say do it in my strength not your own, I will empower you and unless you are empowered do nothing.

The spiritual reality is we obey and find we cannot do something. We call out to God and suddenly we can do it.
The Lord answers prayer when it is needed, not before, to make something happen.

To heal in Jesus's name you do not get your healing packs on and test them out, get everything juiced up.
No, when there is need you pray and healing happens.

So yes lack of action is being preached. It is taken that not even trying is the only way because you will fail, not through trying and walking in love, you will overcome. But that is how faith works. You know Gods promise so you act, and God gives you the strength to overcome.

So many are happy to just slander, lie and decry Gods work, because they feel a statement was aimed at their group, when it was merely a statement of disbelief. The truth hurts which is why the response was posted, which is the reality.

Ok You slanderer..

Show the room where EG said we do nt have to put any effort whatsoever in our walk with God..
Or prove yet once again, you have lied about e, and you even have MORE to repent of..

Do you not get sick of slandering other people.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Maybe that is what they hear when someone says.."We live by the life of Christ in us and the Holy Spirit changes us as a fruit of being in Christ...HIs love in and through us expresses itself in doing good works but all this is done by the life of Christ in us and not from self-effort"..

..I don't know..either they don't understand the Holy Spirit's work in our life because we are a new creation in Christ or what it really means to "be in Christ"..or maybe both??? There is definitely a spiritual blockage happening there of some sort.

This encapsulates well the Calvinist/Augustinian/gnostic view of total inability in which the will has been conflated with ability, and man is completely unable, even after being saved, to do the will of GOD as an act of his own will (what "grace" believers call self-effort). Thus GOD must ride man like a horsey with a bridle in his mouth to cause him to do the will of GOD.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is exaguration and slander, and in your words a lie. The truth is, though it passes you by, there is not room often to deal with finer points on a thread like this. So people bring their perspectives.

For you it is just black and white. As long as you stay like this and simplify everything to your edict, no one will remember your contributions or why you put so much effort in. I do admire this, but just expanding your point does not win the day unless you can show how you got there and bring people with you.

I do not get "mad" about anything. You do annoy me with your style, because it is so confrontational and certain.
Calling me out makes me laugh. Again it is just a slander, designed as a put down.

You have a whole armory of this junk, but it is not of the Lord. You must be a petty manager of people, because it is these people who behave like you do. I am sure the people who work for you do so out of intimidation and not love.

Slander is telling a false truth.

You do pick and chose usually one line out of a whole paragraph and chose to respond to that only.

Look you did it here, You did not even quote my whole post. which explained why I said what I said, so you are not being honest even here

Keep it up. You keep proving to the whole chat room what I have been saying for the past two days.

You have no problem judging others, But you refuse to admit you do the very things you judge others for..

 

[PeterJens]

"Life is a state.. It is not fellowship"

Why is this statement so annoying? Because it is wrong. Life is both a state and fellowship. They are not in opposition to each other. Life in Christ is about communion, communion in the trinity, communion with the Holy Spirit and communion with the body. It is simply pompous to say something so obviously ill thought through and just not true.

Then to imagine this is useful spiritual insight. If you can make such simple mistakes in the first 7 words, I do not care about the rest. And this is supposed to engender respect, fellowship, a capitulation to the truth over a lie.

How deluded and lost do you have to be to believe this is inspired by the Holy Spirit and God is in it. Is God this stupid and idiotic? Does God condemn sincere and Godly people because they are cautious about claiming acceptance and position when we are mere sinners learning to walk? No. But I am accused of lying about God, commiting blasphemy, doomed to hell.

And I am meant to say this is fine, thankyou for trampling on my faith, my life, my contributions, my words, all that I am and saying you know a better way. This is delusion, a spiritual blind man led on by his own passions, which get the better of him all the time.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This encapsulates well the Calvinist/Augustinian/gnostic view of total inability in which the will has been conflated with ability, and man is completely unable, even after being saved, to do the will of GOD as an act of his own will (self-effort to the "grace' believers). Thus GOD must ride man like a horsey with a bridle in his mouth to cause him to do the will of GOD.

or maybe, just maybe, if people like you and peter get your heads out the past and people who lived back the, And get it onto the here and now. and listen or try to understand what people believe.

we are saying, before Christ, we were wild horses, Unable to do anything,, totally useless to the master.

After we are saved, The master not only gives us life (blood) but the ability (direction) to do what the master needs us to do to do his will..

Now the horse cannot take credit,, for he was just doing what the master empower him to do. But the horse can still chose to not respond at any particular time, and he has to move his feet, the master will not move his feet for him..

But, no, people like you and peter are stuck in the past. So your mind is closed to thinking maybe you have us all wrong, and maybe even they had it wrong back then, And I better give some people the honest courtesy of sitting down and actually listening to what they say..but hey Thats too hard.. THAT TAKES WORK..

Funny how you judge us for saying we do noot want to do work, when you wil not do the work of listening to us, and trying to fugure out what we believe, it is easier to just put us all under some theological construct.. SO you do not have to think.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"Life is a state.. It is not fellowship"

See there you go whats wrong, do you not have time to "unpack" everything I said, You just feel it is ok for you to pick and chose?

DID YOU NOT JUST GET MAD AND JUDGE SOMEONE ELSE FOR DOING THIS VERY SAME THING.

be gone, your words mean nothing, You jude others for doing the same thigs you do over and over.. You have no right to judge anyone else..



when you want to honestly talk about the word.. Come, we aere open to discussing, even if we disagree,

As long as you are going to continue to be the way you are.. Don't exect anything but getting continually exposed for what you really are.

Should I report this man one more time??

 

[PeterJens]

Dear reader, EG cannot read. If I quote him writing something, bring out the point I am making and then comment on it, I have supplied all the evidence for my point.

If at the bottom he calls me a slanderer, he just does not read what is being said. His passions are running away with him again. This is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Abuse must be how these people were as adults. They know the whole escalation, accusation, wind-up for the rude remark then use it back again. Does not work if you just play it cool. But they are just bad at doing that, because most times people fold.

One female contributor just lost it completely, went off on a tangent, claimed I had bribed the site etc and issued all manner of accusations against me. I did nothing. She has not changed either, same artillery. But this is not how the gospel is preached, it is how it is destroyed and discouraged in the body. With people like this, if you were a little timid you would be mince meat. It is not wonder people do not go to church if they meet this junk.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear reader, EG cannot read. If I quote him writing something, bring out the point I am making and then comment on it, I have supplied all the evidence for my point.

Dear reader, PETER can not understand

He called out FREENCHRIST because FREENCHRIST did not respond to a whole post. even though he admitted, he did not have time to unpack the whole post.

Here he did the very same thing to me, like he always does to people..

read what you want into it, But to me, That is not what a true man of God would do.

A man of god practicies what he preaches, He does not say do as I say, not as I do.. which is the very thing peter always get caught doing.