Question on post trib rapture.

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Devonmcknight68

Devonmcknight68

Senior Member
#1
Jan 9, 2016
241
7
18
#1
Is the last trumpet in 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 the seventh trumpet in revelation? And if so doesn't that mean it's a post trib rapture? I haven't sided either or quite yet and it just seems there's good scripture on both.

1 Corinthian 15:52 "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed"


 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2
#2
If the rapture is post trib,

Who will be left alive when Christ returns, that will enter the kingdom with him? Is Jesus going to rule no one? (remembering that all who reject him are killed at the time of his return.)
 
Devonmcknight68

Devonmcknight68

Senior Member
#3
Jan 9, 2016
241
7
18
#3
So there will be some believers left? I'm sorry I didn't quite understand
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#4
#4
Devonmcknight68 said:
So there will be some believers left? I'm sorry I didn't quite understand
Click to expand...
If when Jesus returns. All the unbelievers are killed. and the believers are raptured. Who is left to enter the 1000 year reign of Christ?
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#5
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#5
Devonmcknight68 said:
Is the last trumpet in 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 the seventh trumpet in revelation? And if so doesn't that mean it's a post trib rapture? I haven't sided either or quite yet and it just seems there's good scripture on both.

1 Corinthian 15:52 "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed"
Click to expand...
Some believe that it is the "seventh trump" in Revelation because it says "the last trump". Do a study on "trumpets", when and why they were used and blown . . . the trumpets of Revelation are entirely different from any other series of trumpets in Scripture. The trumpets in Revelation are sounded by angels. The trumpet at the rapture is the "trumpet of God." The trumpets of Revelation are all connected with divine judgment of sin and unbelief. The trumpet of 1 Thess. 4 and 1 Cor. 15 is a call and command to the dead to rise. In Revelation 1:7 it says that "every eye shall see him" - if something happens in the "twinkling of an eye" or in the moment of time it takes for your eye to blink - I doubt it will be seen. Revelation 6:17 at the 6th seal scripture says For the great day of their wrath (one who sits on the throne & the Lamb) has come and who can withstand it? This is before the 7th trump . . . Just things to think about.

So just study how and when trumpets are used throughout scripture and you can make your own decision . . . :)
 
P

Persuaded

Guest
#7
#7
Devonmcknight68 said:
Is the last trumpet in 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 the seventh trumpet in revelation? And if so doesn't that mean it's a post trib rapture? I haven't sided either or quite yet and it just seems there's good scripture on both.

1 Corinthian 15:52 "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed"
Click to expand...
I seem to have this habit of believing what the Scripture says. If it says last, than I believe it will be the last, and therefore there will not be another trumpet sound.
 
G

ggs7

Guest
#8
#8
I've noticed an interesting repetition of words in the new testament relating to Christ's return in the clouds.

For eg;

Mat 24:29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
Mat 24:30 And then the sign of the Son of Man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars. And on the earth will be anxiety of nations with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 men fainting from fear, and expecting those things which have come on the earth. For the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then they shall see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to happen, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near.

Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 and the stars of Heaven shall fall, and the powers in the heavens shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then He shall send His angels and shall gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of heaven.

Act 2:19 And I will give wonders in the heaven above, and miracles on the earth below, blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before that great and glorious Day of the Lord.
Act 2:21 And it shall be that everyone who shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."




Rev 6:12 And when He had opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake. And the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs when she is shaken by a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed like a scroll when it is rolled together. And every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains.
Rev 6:16 And they said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him sitting on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;
Rev 6:17 for the great day of His wrath has come, and who will be able to stand?

I'd like to know whether these scriptures have relevance to the rapture?
 
P

Persuaded

Guest
#9
#9
ggs7 said:
I've noticed an interesting repetition of words in the new testament relating to Christ's return in the clouds.

For eg;

Mat 24:29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
Mat 24:30 And then the sign of the Son of Man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars. And on the earth will be anxiety of nations with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 men fainting from fear, and expecting those things which have come on the earth. For the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then they shall see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to happen, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near.

Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 and the stars of Heaven shall fall, and the powers in the heavens shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then He shall send His angels and shall gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of heaven.

Act 2:19 And I will give wonders in the heaven above, and miracles on the earth below, blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before that great and glorious Day of the Lord.
Act 2:21 And it shall be that everyone who shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."




Rev 6:12 And when He had opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake. And the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs when she is shaken by a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed like a scroll when it is rolled together. And every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains.
Rev 6:16 And they said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him sitting on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;
Rev 6:17 for the great day of His wrath has come, and who will be able to stand?

I'd like to know whether these scriptures have relevance to the rapture?
Click to expand...
The rapture and the second coming of Christ are the same event at the last trump.
 
G

ggs7

Guest
#10
#10
Persuaded said:
The rapture and the second coming of Christ are the same event at the last trump.
Click to expand...
How do these verses tie into the Rapture and Second Coming then?

Rev 19:11 And I saw Heaven opened. And behold, a white horse! And He sitting on him was called Faithful and True. And in righteousness He judges and makes war.
Rev 19:12 And His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head many crowns. And He had a name written, one that no one knew except Himself.
Rev 19:13 And He had been clothed in a garment dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, so that with it He should strike the nations. And He will shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the wine of the anger and of the wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And He has on His garment, and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw one angel standing in the sun. And he cried with a great voice, saying to all the birds that fly in mid-heaven, Come and gather together to the supper of the great God,
Rev 19:18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of commanders, and the flesh of strong ones, and the flesh of horses, and those sitting on them, and the flesh of all, both free and slave, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth and their armies, being gathered to make war against Him who sat on the horse, and against His army.

Is Christ returning a third time????

Thanks
 
Devonmcknight68

Devonmcknight68

Senior Member
#11
Jan 9, 2016
241
7
18
#11
ggs7 said:
I've noticed an interesting repetition of words in the new testament relating to Christ's return in the clouds.

For eg;

Mat 24:29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
Mat 24:30 And then the sign of the Son of Man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars. And on the earth will be anxiety of nations with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 men fainting from fear, and expecting those things which have come on the earth. For the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then they shall see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to happen, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near.

Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 and the stars of Heaven shall fall, and the powers in the heavens shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then He shall send His angels and shall gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of heaven.

Act 2:19 And I will give wonders in the heaven above, and miracles on the earth below, blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before that great and glorious Day of the Lord.
Act 2:21 And it shall be that everyone who shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."




Rev 6:12 And when He had opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake. And the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs when she is shaken by a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed like a scroll when it is rolled together. And every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains.
Rev 6:16 And they said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him sitting on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;
Rev 6:17 for the great day of His wrath has come, and who will be able to stand?

I'd like to know whether these scriptures have relevance to the rapture?
Click to expand...
It looks to me like with the 6 trumpet comes the rapture according to Mathew 24:31? Is that right? I mean he is calling he elect which would be the believers right?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#13
#13
ggs7 said:
I've noticed an interesting repetition of words in the new testament relating to Christ's return in the clouds.

For eg;

Mat 24:29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
Mat 24:30 And then the sign of the Son of Man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars. And on the earth will be anxiety of nations with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 men fainting from fear, and expecting those things which have come on the earth. For the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then they shall see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to happen, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near.

Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 and the stars of Heaven shall fall, and the powers in the heavens shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then He shall send His angels and shall gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of heaven.

Act 2:19 And I will give wonders in the heaven above, and miracles on the earth below, blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before that great and glorious Day of the Lord.
Act 2:21 And it shall be that everyone who shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."




Rev 6:12 And when He had opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake. And the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs when she is shaken by a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed like a scroll when it is rolled together. And every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains.
Rev 6:16 And they said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him sitting on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;
Rev 6:17 for the great day of His wrath has come, and who will be able to stand?

I'd like to know whether these scriptures have relevance to the rapture?
Click to expand...
Again, Is jesus going to rule a non habited earth?

If all of those speak of the rapture. then jesus came to rule nothing..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#14
#14
Devonmcknight68 said:
It looks to me like with the 6 trumpet comes the rapture according to Mathew 24:31? Is that right? I mean he is calling he elect which would be the believers right?
Click to expand...
Is he calling them to heaven, with a new body, or is he calling them to gather in Jerusalem, to start new.. (since they did nto die, and endured to the end)
 
P

Persuaded

Guest
#15
#15
eternally-gratefull said:
If the rapture is post trib,

Who will be left alive when Christ returns, that will enter the kingdom with him? Is Jesus going to rule no one? (remembering that all who reject him are killed at the time of his return.)
Click to expand...
I have seen you post several times that all who reject Jesus are killed at His return.
Would you post the Scripture that teaches this so I might study it?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#17
#17
Persuaded said:
I have seen you post several times that all who reject Jesus are killed at His return.
Would you post the Scripture that teaches this so I might study it?
Click to expand...
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[SUP][g][/SUP] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.
[h=3][SUP]17 [/SUP]Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,[SUP][h][/SUP] [SUP]18 [/SUP]that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free[SUP][i][/SUP] and slave, both small and great.”[/h][SUP]21 [/SUP]And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.


Jesus said, He who endured to the end will be Saved. What good is it, if we endure to the end, just to get raptured. The words are meaningless. Because everyone was saved and then raptured anyway, whether they died or not..

So why have people try to endure until the return of Christ. If they are just going to be raptured. And why even tell them this, if everyone will be saved anyway whether they died or not (believers)
 
G

ggs7

Guest
#18
#18
Devonmcknight68 said:
It looks to me like with the 6 trumpet comes the rapture according to Mathew 24:31? Is that right? I mean he is calling he elect which would be the believers right?
Click to expand...
I cant give any advice except scripture;

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father
Mar 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
Mar 13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
Mar 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, WATCH!!

and

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
 
P

Persuaded

Guest
#19
#19
eternally-gratefull said:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[SUP][g][/SUP] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,[SUP][h][/SUP] [SUP]18 [/SUP]that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free[SUP][i][/SUP] and slave, both small and great.”

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.


Jesus said, He who endured to the end will be Saved. What good is it, if we endure to the end, just to get raptured. The words are meaningless. Because everyone was saved and then raptured anyway, whether they died or not..

So why have people try to endure until the return of Christ. If they are just going to be raptured. And why even tell them this, if everyone will be saved anyway whether they died or not (believers)
Click to expand...
I must confess I have not read all your post, so I must ask in ignorance
Do you believe in the rapture, ie, our gathering together with Christ in the air?
What about those Jews that flee into the wilderness and are protected by God from the anti-christ for 1260 days?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#20
#20
Persuaded said:
I must confess I have not read all your post, so I must ask in ignorance
Do you believe in the rapture, ie, our gathering together with Christ in the air?
What about those Jews that flee into the wilderness and are protected by God from the anti-christ for 1260 days?
Click to expand...
Yes I do.

I just believe post trib is the least supported view. Again if post trib is true, Jesus has no one to rule..

He only promised those who endured to the end to be saved, Not unbelievers..

Israel, They come to Christ, the tribulation causes them to repent.. That is the reason for the "time of Jacobs trouble"
 
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