BEWARE

[charisenexcelcis]

I dont agree with that statement Phil: except the part where you refer to us as wise & coherent...That I'll, humbly... receive... hee hee.

So, Imoss'es husband was reading one of those Hollywood magazines, an article about this really fat and rude comic who was dating a supermodel. He puts down the magazine and says, "Why do all the ugly and stupid men get the hot chicks?" Imoss replied, "Thank you."
[Just a joke, I don't even know Imoss'es husband.]

 

[imoss]

Hee hee!!!! I told him i was glad he crashed his bike when he was a kid and knocked himself out & shook things up up there cause he married me! Otherwise he'd be a doctor or something & well I'd still be living lonely.

 

[pickles]

The point is that this thread was started on the premise that Jesus is the only way to the Father and that outside of christianity, all others is lost. I won't argue that in which He is the only way. I only contend with the meaning of this. Every religion breaks the commandments of God. Buddhists pray to a multi-armed statue and we ridicule them for it, then when we mention Jesus we all are guilty of picturing a white man with blond hair and blue eyes. Is this not also an image which God expressly forbided in His commandments? We've been taught from generation to generation of putting God in OUR image, in where the Bible says we were made in HIS image. I've long accepted Jesus as my personal saviour. But in securely having faith that He gave rest to my SOUL, I am learning how to also obtain rest from my WORKS. Jesus did NOT give us rest from that as explained in Hebrews the fourth chapter. We argue over Saturday or Sunday, clean and unclean meat when all this is vanity. Jesus is Lord even of the Sabbath. Is He not Lord of the other six days as well? Paul said that although he was free from all men, yet he made himself a servant to all, that he might gain the more. I eat pork as my faith in this subject is strong, but if I invite a friend over who doesn't eat any unclean meat, I will abstain from it for the love of my neighbor who is weak in faith on this subject as to not cause confusion and therefore a stumblingblock towards his salvation.

2-corinth.2:14-17
14:Thanks be to God,who unfailingly leads us on Christ's triumphal train, and employs us to diffuse of his knowladge everywhere! 15: We are the aroma of Christ for God's sake, both among those that are being saved and those on the way to destruction. 16: To the later an order of dealing death. To the former, a breath bringing life.
For such a mission as this, is anyone really qualified? 17: We at least are not like the many who trade the word of God. We speak in Christ's name. Pure in motivation, concious of having been sent by God, and standing in his presance.

Wow! I knew Jesus gave me this scripture and had me write it down for a reason.
God bless, pickles

 

[Israel]

2-corinth.2:14-17
14:Thanks be to God,who unfailingly leads us on Christ's triumphal train, and employs us to diffuse of his knowladge everywhere! 15: We are the aroma of Christ for God's sake, both among those that are being saved and those on the way to destruction. 16: To the later an order of dealing death. To the former, a breath bringing life.
For such a mission as this, is anyone really qualified? 17: We at least are not like the many who trade the word of God. We speak in Christ's name. Pure in motivation, concious of having been sent by God, and standing in his presance.

Wow! I knew Jesus gave me this scripture and had me write it down for a reason.
God bless, pickles

This further helps what I've been trying to say.

 

[pickles]

This further helps what I've been trying to say.

The thing is, I cannot figure out what you are trying to say.
Maby all are saying the same thing , and all of this is more about the delivery.
Tell me, as simply as you can what you are trying so to say.
Maby the second scripture given to me is also important.
God bless, pickles

Ps, most here know how I struggle to share scriptures, the fact these scriptures were given tells me that Jesus had something to say.

 

[Israel]

The thing is, I cannot figure out what you are trying to say.
Maby all are saying the same thing , and all of this is more about the delivery.
Tell me, as simply as you can what you are trying so to say.
Maby the second scripture given to me is also important.
God bless, pickles

Ps, most here know how I struggle to share scriptures, the fact these scriptures were given tells me that Jesus had something to say.

What I am trying to say is that I see people who believe that Christianity is the only true religion, when the truth of the matter is that All religion is paganized in some form or fashion. We condemn a religion like Budhism because their false imagery, but doesn't Christianity do the same things. Jesus died for us and upon doing that, He fulfilled the letter of the law inorder for us to live after the Spirit. Truthfully, where's our faith in that? Paul stated that he was free from every man but became a servant to all men that he might gain the more. You can only be that way if you understand how to obey the commandments in righteousness. Let me give you an example. How do you obey the Sabbath day? Most people in the world don't have a clue as how to obey this spiritual commandment. If your heart is willing, I will show you what the Spirit showed me. Without this special day do you know the plan of the salvation of man wouldn't work?

 

[pickles]

I understand now what you are saying.
I believe the concern of others is that if you give approval to other religions you will cause others to feel secure in their faith, thus never turning to Jesus as their savior.
Accepting Jesus as your savior is not about religion, it is about truth.
No other religion acknowladges this.
The fact that it is so important proves its value and the weakness in all other religions.
To say it is ok to believe other than Jesus, is to condem others.
I believe scripture does speak to this, Ill try to find it.
I questioned much the same as you are many years ago.
Then I came to see how Jesus and the cross is so important.
I also came to see how if I teach according to what I wanted to believe, rather than the truth, not only condemed them, but also me. That my false words held me accountable for all that failed.
Understand that although all religions fail, only the belief in Jesus and the cross give the faith in Christ freedom from our failiers.
Ill share the second scripture I was given, maby it will help.

2-Corinth.3
1: I am begging to speak well of myself again? Or do I need letters of recomendation to you. Or from you as others might.
2: You are my letter,known and read by all men,written on your hearts. 3: Clearly you are a letter of Christ which I have delivered, a letter not written
in ink but by the Holy Spirit of the living God. Not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh in the heart.
4: This confidence in God is Ours through Christ.
5: It is not that we are entitled of ourselves to take credit for anything. Our sole credit is from God.
6: Who has made us qualified ministers of a new covenant, a covenant not of written law but of Spirit! The written law kills, but the Spirit gives life.

God bless, pickles

 

[Israel]

I understand now what you are saying.
I believe the concern of others is that if you give approval to other religions you will cause others to feel secure in their faith, thus never turning to Jesus as their savior.
Accepting Jesus as your savior is not about religion, it is about truth.
No other religion acknowladges this.
The fact that it is so important proves its value and the weakness in all other religions.
To say it is ok to believe other than Jesus, is to condem others.
I believe scripture does speak to this, Ill try to find it.
I questioned much the same as you are many years ago.
Then I came to see how Jesus and the cross is so important.
I also came to see how if I teach according to what I wanted to believe, rather than the truth, not only condemed them, but also me. That my false words held me accountable for all that failed.
Understand that although all religions fail, only the belief in Jesus and the cross give the faith in Christ freedom from our failiers.
Ill share the second scripture I was given, maby it will help.

2-Corinth.3
1: I am begging to speak well of myself again? Or do I need letters of recomendation to you. Or from you as others might.
2: You are my letter,known and read by all men,written on your hearts. 3: Clearly you are a letter of Christ which I have delivered, a letter not written
in ink but by the Holy Spirit of the living God. Not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh in the heart.
4: This confidence in God is Ours through Christ.
5: It is not that we are entitled of ourselves to take credit for anything. Our sole credit is from God.
6: Who has made us qualified ministers of a new covenant, a covenant not of written law but of Spirit! The written law kills, but the Spirit gives life.

God bless, pickles

To further elaborate on what I'm saying is for instance; if a man worships the one true God, But does this on the first day of the week and not on the seventh, is he breaking God's Sabbath law? Jesus taught that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath days. It is also lawful to do good on anyday of the week. God is God everyday! And if a person wants to worship on Sunday, Wednesday or even Saturday, It is lawful to do so! I was one who was deeply troubled in my spirit about the Sabbath day as I work on Saturdays. Now I understand what the Sabbath really means! If a man hasn't eaten any unclean meat and the day he dies, eats a ham sandwich, is he breaking God's law? Jesus said that what goes into a man doesn't defile him, but what comes out (the heart) which defiles a man. If a man who prays and meditates constantly, does not partake of the pleasures of this world, but only has a passive knowledge of the name of Jesus, Is he in danger of being left out of the kingdom? Heaven forbid! for Christ died for him as well! Paul say that those who are without the law, do that by nature, that which the law requires, become a law unto themselves! These and many other examples is why the understanding of the Sabbath is so important as this is why all of this is possible. God said to rest from our works. Does this mean not to work on Saturday? By the letter, which was a shadow of things to come, yes. But the letter was fulfilled in Christ! We live after the Spirit. So to rest on the Sabbath age is to rest from the works of imagery! The letter of the law was an image! The Buddha statue, the pictures Jesus, black or white, the trinity, and anyother similitude of God is an IMAGE! God is Spirit and those who worship must worship in spirit and in truth. We were made in the image of God and not the other way around. Our victory and salvation is secure in Jesus,, so in that I bodly seek the truth knowing that no weapon formed against me shall prosper!

 

[VW]

I have heard some strange things before, but this comes close to the strangest. You acknowledge the cross but mainly to fulfill the law, give salvation to one who does not love God, make the sabath be something you will not elaborate, deny Christ and the Holy Spirit, and I bet you wonder why people have a hard time understanding what you are saying.

 

[VW]

To elaborate, why are you so concerned with the law? The law, which was given for righteousness, could not make the worshiper righteous, because the law gave occasion for sin. So rather than place us under the law, which could not make us perfect, God put us under another standard, grace. Because He has made this new way which is in Christ Jesus avaiable to us, in which our being in Christ spiritually is our righteousness,. Since God has provided this new and livivng way in Him, if we seek our righteousness from or by the law, we become severed from grace. Grace is the basis of our salvation. Not of works, lest any man should boast. Therefore, we are no longer under the law, nor debtors to the law, but under grace, having received a much better promise. The old promise was to be God's people. The new pormise is for us to become God's children.

As His children, He has provided all of our works in Himself, righteous works which have been wrought in God from the foundations of the world that we should walk in them. We need only rest in the works He has already done in Christ. He has chosen us to be a holy people unto Himsef, children born of Him.

 

[cookie39]

first of all you all are wasting your time with Isreal: God said cast not thy pearls to the swine....
He said that they can not hear neither can they see, for the god of this world, " The Devil" have their minds blind...
it is so sill to argue with someone when you see they can not hear!!!!!
we all know that the bible say that no man will be justified in the sight of God by works, of the law........ so a little old lady, or a very young ma... who gave their close, food , home all they had to the poor.... but don't have Christ Jesus... " IS GOING TO HELL" And the Judge of that call is God.... ask him who is he to Judge! for as God spoken it; it shall come to pass..... there is not one good save the Lord God.... only the Blood of Jesus.. washes us clean..... so if you all read Romans 3-7 and Galatians 1-6 and Hebrews 7-11 you will be prepared for that person who come preaching false doctrine... in which Apostel Paul said let them be acursed..... so say the truth as the Lord has put in our hearts and pray that he will only allow those who seeking the truth; to hear just the truth.... I know we hate the fact that anyone who is seeking the Lord... the only true and living God... the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ..... our savior.... he is and never will be allah, budah, who again Apostel paul say as well as God, that they are worshipping Devils!!!!!! and for a man to say it is the same God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, is a lier and the truth is not in them.... they are of their Father the devil.... So we are believing that the Lord our God will block all lies of the enemy from all who are seeking the truth...and close their ears to his lies and hear in their hearts, the Holy spirit's voice to lead them to the truth....in the Name of Christ Jesus... LET THE REDEEMED OF THE LORD SAY SO.... BY SAYING; AMEN

And for that lying devil;; we rebuke and command you to shut your mouth and leave; in the Holy and precious name of Christ Jesus...

 

[VW]

I recognized the religious spirit. I just wanted to give him a chance to look at things again.

I had no plans to say anymore, unless I saw some crack in the delusion.

In Jesus' sweet name.

 

[Israel]

I have heard some strange things before, but this comes close to the strangest. You acknowledge the cross but mainly to fulfill the law, give salvation to one who does not love God, make the sabath be something you will not elaborate, deny Christ and the Holy Spirit, and I bet you wonder why people have a hard time understanding what you are saying.

If you want to know how I obey the Sabbath of the Lord, please read one of my posts on this subject. The man I mentioned, who is he praying to? And I don't wonder why people have a hard time understanding what I'm saying. The Bible tells me why.

To elaborate, why are you so concerned with the law? The law, which was given for righteousness, could not make the worshiper righteous, because the law gave occasion for sin. So rather than place us under the law, which could not make us perfect, God put us under another standard, grace. Because He has made this new way which is in Christ Jesus avaiable to us, in which our being in Christ spiritually is our righteousness,. Since God has provided this new and livivng way in Him, if we seek our righteousness from or by the law, we become severed from grace. Grace is the basis of our salvation. Not of works, lest any man should boast. Therefore, we are no longer under the law, nor debtors to the law, but under grace, having received a much better promise. The old promise was to be God's people. The new pormise is for us to become God's children.

As His children, He has provided all of our works in Himself, righteous works which have been wrought in God from the foundations of the world that we should walk in them. We need only rest in the works He has already done in Christ. He has chosen us to be a holy people unto Himsef, children born of Him.

Without law is again, lawlessness! If the Bible says that before the law came, sin was in the world; and then defines sin as the transgression of the law, then what was sin before the law came? To commit murder was a sin when Cain did it, as it is still a sin after the death and ressurection of Jesus. As is all of His ten commandments.

first of all you all are wasting your time with Isreal: God said cast not thy pearls to the swine....
He said that they can not hear neither can they see, for the god of this world, " The Devil" have their minds blind...
it is so sill to argue with someone when you see they can not hear!!!!!
we all know that the bible say that no man will be justified in the sight of God by works, of the law........ so a little old lady, or a very young ma... who gave their close, food , home all they had to the poor.... but don't have Christ Jesus... " IS GOING TO HELL" And the Judge of that call is God.... ask him who is he to Judge! for as God spoken it; it shall come to pass..... there is not one good save the Lord God.... only the Blood of Jesus.. washes us clean..... so if you all read Romans 3-7 and Galatians 1-6 and Hebrews 7-11 you will be prepared for that person who come preaching false doctrine... in which Apostel Paul said let them be acursed..... so say the truth as the Lord has put in our hearts and pray that he will only allow those who seeking the truth; to hear just the truth.... I know we hate the fact that anyone who is seeking the Lord... the only true and living God... the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ..... our savior.... he is and never will be allah, budah, who again Apostel paul say as well as God, that they are worshipping Devils!!!!!! and for a man to say it is the same God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, is a lier and the truth is not in them.... they are of their Father the devil.... So we are believing that the Lord our God will block all lies of the enemy from all who are seeking the truth...and close their ears to his lies and hear in their hearts, the Holy spirit's voice to lead them to the truth....in the Name of Christ Jesus... LET THE REDEEMED OF THE LORD SAY SO.... BY SAYING; AMEN

And for that lying devil;; we rebuke and command you to shut your mouth and leave; in the Holy and precious name of Christ Jesus...

This is the exact attitude I am talking about. John came neither eating or drinking and they said he had a devil in him. Jesus came eating and drinking and they called Him a glutton and a drunkard! I understand what paul meant, quote what he says, and you say I'm preaching a false doctrine. You condemn the followers of Buddah and Allah, when in fact you do the same thing! Is that not a hypocrite? Is Jesus His true name? Jesus is not a Hebrew name and yet you say He is God. There are no "J's" in that language. So you who judge by the name of Buddah, will you not also be judged by the name of Jesus? God judges by the heart so that truly no man can boast in his work!

 

[aspen]

These posts make me sad......

This is no way to treat anyone, especially someone who is simply guilty of not agreeing with you all.....

Obviously, no one here has really read anything I have written about witnessing or meeting people where they are at.

It is too bad....I knew you guys were simply skimming my posts to find something that sounded heretical so you could warn me against the Devil, but I guess I kind of hoped you would pick up something, but based on this thread, it is the same old tune - crucify him!!!

Well, Israel I guess it was your turn.....I got the treatment yesterday.

 

[VW]

Something strange with the server. Every time I go to quote someone, it brings up Israel's post #5. Every time.

I did not crucify anyone. I recognize the line of reasoning, (if you can call it that,) and made an attempt to have some form of communication. I am still open to this, but don't hold out much hope. And indeed, I stood up for you yesterday, because I when I first read what caused you your trouble, I thought wrongly about it at first, and then after reading again, I changed my mind. I could see how it could be misunderstood, and wanted to show that maybe we should look closer and not be quite so quick to condemn.

But I have read as deeply as I can into Israel's post, and they do not make any sense. They ignore so much of what the scriptures he quotes carry as their meaning, talks about the sabbath without ever saying what he thinks it is, but everyone else is missing the truth of it.

His posts are confusing, and one thing that we do know is that God is not confusing. He may hide something, but not confuse you about what He does reveal.

 

[aspen]

Something strange with the server. Every time I go to quote someone, it brings up Israel's post #5. Every time.

I did not crucify anyone. I recognize the line of reasoning, (if you can call it that,) and made an attempt to have some form of communication. I am still open to this, but don't hold out much hope. And indeed, I stood up for you yesterday, because I when I first read what caused you your trouble, I thought wrongly about it at first, and then after reading again, I changed my mind. I could see how it could be misunderstood, and wanted to show that maybe we should look closer and not be quite so quick to condemn.

But I have read as deeply as I can into Israel's post, and they do not make any sense. They ignore so much of what the scriptures he quotes carry as their meaning, talks about the sabbath without ever saying what he thinks it is, but everyone else is missing the truth of it.

His posts are confusing, and one thing that we do know is that God is not confusing. He may hide something, but not confuse you about what He does reveal.

Yeah VW, once again, I really did appreciate your taking a 2nd look at my posts and sticking up for me - honestly, it has never happen on a message board like this before - I thanked you before and I will thank you again

For the record, I am not defending Israel's logic or doctrinal views - in fact, my only post in response to his ideas was not supportive.

All I am saying is that simple disagreement is enough - although I do think it got personal with Israel - your post to him do not top my list of offensive posts.

The problem I see in the interchange I saw between Israel on this thread is it's impact on people with weaker faith - this what nonbelievers and new christians dislike the most - it is not the posts that you worry about!

 

[phil36]

I don't think when we debate others, i don't think it hurts peoples Faith because they are 'non-believers' or 'new christians' that may be the case in some. I think it is more the case of righteous anger.

as I said in another post, none of the post here make me question my Faith, but, I do get angry at some people hurling the word of our Sovereign Lord around to suit their own theological ideas, and because they are theological ideas does not make them correct. there is good theology and bad.

and we do theology of sorts wether we say we do or not.

I am not sure if you really mean to be condescending when you talk about some the people who exchange dialogue with Israel, but thats what it sounded like. some have got a justifiable righteous anger towards incorrect attitudes to God's glorious word. the problem more correctly lies in how we exchange dialogue.

kind regards

Phil

 

[aspen]

I don't think when we debate others, i don't think it hurts peoples Faith because they are 'non-believers' or 'new christians' that may be the case in some. I think it is more the case of righteous anger.

as I said in another post, none of the post here make me question my Faith, but, I do get angry at some people hurling the word of our Sovereign Lord around to suit their own theological ideas, and because they are theological ideas does not make them correct. there is good theology and bad.

and we do theology of sorts wether we say we do or not.

I am not sure if you really mean to be condescending when you talk about some the people who exchange dialogue with Israel, but thats what it sounded like. some have got a justifiable righteous anger towards incorrect attitudes to God's glorious word. the problem more correctly lies in how we exchange dialogue.

kind regards

Phil

Yeah, I have a real problem with righteous anger - I admit it. Jesus reserved His righteous anger towards the religious authorities of the day - never toward people who simply didn't get it.

No, you are right, I do not mean to be condescending, but I think we need to get our priorities straight. It is too bad that there appears to be a double standard in this culture - it is perfectly acceptable to chew someone up and spit them out if they express a doctrinal difference, but mention concerns about attitudes and behavior of people who present themselves as authorities and you are painted as someone who is condescending and out of line.

I have a heart for people who have been oppressed by righteous anger and it is difficult for me to sit back and watch the problem barely acknowledged at best and defended at worse.

 

[imoss]

I think Jesus is the only way to the Father. A christian professing otherwise will always spin me into righteous anger. God bless you Aspen as he leads you to the truth. If you are never rebuked you will continue in the err of your ways. Again I pray spiritual blessings of grounding in CHRIST. For Christianity is the way not just the best religious option of all.

 

[aspen]

I think Jesus is the only way to the Father. A christian professing otherwise will always spin me into righteous anger. God bless you Aspen as he leads you to the truth. If you are never rebuked you will continue in the err of your ways. Again I pray spiritual blessings of grounding in CHRIST. For Christianity is the way not just the best religious option of all.

God Bless you imoss.

Why do you choose to remain in your error? You are allowing your pride to cement your mind into this lie - I am starting to worry about you......they delusion is moving past a simple case of bearing false witness. I am praying that God will deliver you from this - you know it is okay to admit your misunderstanding - you do not need to joust at windmills - just drop it.