1Cor. 12, Romans12, Ephesians 4..
- Thread starter Yet
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Why isn't anybody helping me here. If I have a defective bible I want to know. Where's your love at. You say I am deceived by holding to these chapters so please tell me if my bible is a misprint. Don't you want me set free and going to church and paying my tithes like a good little Christian? You've been telling me that my belief in theses dictates of Paul are all wrong so please
lend your voice here.
Are these words of Paul part of the written word or not. I'm serious here. Why are you all silent now? Please 'save' me.
All I here is crickets now. Come to my rescue won't you? You have all made it very clear by attacking me for presenting these scriptures that they are fairy tales. I'm accused of twisting the word of God for my own gain, yet the only payment I get is slander.
And no one tells me how I am twisting any part of the word of God.
I mean I'm in the minority here. You are the majority against me. The majority can't be wrong about something....can they?
There is no place in history where the majority could possibly be wrong......is there?
So wont you please tell me if these chapters are in you bible or not. Obviously they are not for you are vehemently opposed to them. Ok. I'll concede the debate to you. You win. If those chapters are not in your bible. Thanks for caring about my eternal destiny on this. Please let me know. My spiritual destiny depends on it. God bless you all.
lend your voice here.
Are these words of Paul part of the written word or not. I'm serious here. Why are you all silent now? Please 'save' me.
All I here is crickets now. Come to my rescue won't you? You have all made it very clear by attacking me for presenting these scriptures that they are fairy tales. I'm accused of twisting the word of God for my own gain, yet the only payment I get is slander.
And no one tells me how I am twisting any part of the word of God.
I mean I'm in the minority here. You are the majority against me. The majority can't be wrong about something....can they?
There is no place in history where the majority could possibly be wrong......is there?
So wont you please tell me if these chapters are in you bible or not. Obviously they are not for you are vehemently opposed to them. Ok. I'll concede the debate to you. You win. If those chapters are not in your bible. Thanks for caring about my eternal destiny on this. Please let me know. My spiritual destiny depends on it. God bless you all.
Here I will post the chapters for easier reference (sometimes that helps) I know it does me.
Rom.12
[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
[2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
[3] For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
[4] For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
[5] So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
[6] Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
[7] Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
[8] Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.
[9] Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
[10] Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
[11] Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;
[12] Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
[13] Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.
[14] Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
[15] Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.
[16] Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
[17] Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
[18] If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
[19] Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
[20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
[21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
1Cor.12
[1] Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
[2] Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
[3] Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
[4] Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
[5] And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
[6] And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
[7] But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
[8] For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
[9] To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
[10] To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
[11] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
[12] For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
[14] For the body is not one member, but many.
[15] If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
[16] And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
[17] If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
[18] But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
[19] And if they were all one member, where were the body?
[20] But now are they many members, yet but one body.
[21] And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
[22] Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
[23] And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
[24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
[25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
[26] And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
[27] Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
[28] And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
[29] Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
[30] Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
[31] But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
Eph.4
[1] I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
[2] With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
[3] Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
[4] There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
[5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
[6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
[7] But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
[8] Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
[9] (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
[10] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
[11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
[12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
[13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
[14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
[15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
[16] From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
[17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
[18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
[19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
[20] But ye have not so learned Christ;
[21] If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
[22] That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
[23] And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
[24] And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
[25] Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
[26] Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
[27] Neither give place to the devil.
[28] Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
[29] Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
[31] Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
[32] And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Real time sound of crickets for you
[video=youtube;K8E_zMLCRNg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg[/video]
Rom.12
[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
[2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
[3] For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
[4] For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
[5] So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
[6] Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
[7] Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
[8] Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.
[9] Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
[10] Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
[11] Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;
[12] Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
[13] Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.
[14] Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
[15] Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.
[16] Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
[17] Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
[18] If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
[19] Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
[20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
[21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
1Cor.12
[1] Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
[2] Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
[3] Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
[4] Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
[5] And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
[6] And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
[7] But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
[8] For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
[9] To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
[10] To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
[11] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
[12] For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
[14] For the body is not one member, but many.
[15] If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
[16] And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
[17] If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
[18] But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
[19] And if they were all one member, where were the body?
[20] But now are they many members, yet but one body.
[21] And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
[22] Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
[23] And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
[24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
[25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
[26] And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
[27] Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
[28] And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
[29] Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
[30] Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
[31] But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
Eph.4
[1] I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
[2] With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
[3] Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
[4] There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
[5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
[6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
[7] But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
[8] Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
[9] (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
[10] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
[11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
[12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
[13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
[14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
[15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
[16] From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
[17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
[18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
[19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
[20] But ye have not so learned Christ;
[21] If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
[22] That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
[23] And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
[24] And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
[25] Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
[26] Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
[27] Neither give place to the devil.
[28] Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
[29] Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
[31] Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
[32] And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Real time sound of crickets for you
[video=youtube;K8E_zMLCRNg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg[/video]
I was soft spoken to start . Most of you simply refused to see the word of God on this. I begged you guys to study it. Your collective yawn and rebellion brought insults upon me. I'm accused of bitterness, hatred, and unforgiveness. I went into defense mode.I began to answer in kind. Now I'm the bad guy. News flash: I'm only human also. When a pack of wild dogs descend on me, I bleed to and react? Please forgive me. I'm not perfect. Jesus even responded with the pastors in Jerusalem.
I never called anyone a snake or whited sepulcher like He did so how about a little slack. To date, you still have not answered the scriptures I posted.
You judge me wrong. Not suppose to do that. Please tell if those chapters are in your bible.
Not silly at all. You see I have these chapters in my bible. It seems that few others do. I need to find out if my bible is a misprint. A factory defect. That's all.
Oh, so you have them in your bible eh? The problem is this. Wanting to apply them is one thing. So do I. But all the churches I've been in for decades will not allow them to be applied. Therein lies the problem.
P
Persuaded
Guest
I have studied these Scriptures many time over the years, and for the life of me I do not see what Yet sees in them.
Nowhere does it say that all elders are pastors.
Nowhere does it say a pastors must hold down a full time secular job.
Nowhere does it say that every one in the assembly is to have his turn to minister during the time they are gathered together.
If I missed the verses that teach that, maybe he can point them out to me.
You would definately have to ask Yet, I just thought I would help out and post the chapters he had brought up.
But I do not know what Yet's beef might be with these chapters and how others might see them (or might not) I havent a clue.
Hello. I never said that the first 2 of your points are in these chapters.
All elders are shepherds. 1Peter 5 and Acts 20. They are told in 1Peter 5 ...vs.1 'The elders which are among you'. Vs.2. Feed the flock of God which is among you...
and in Acts 20. Vs.17. ..'and called the elders of the church'..Vs.28. '..feed the ecclesia of God...' Shepherds feed sheep.
Caring and feeding the sheep makes them poimen:shepherds
astors.....plural. All elders in these verses by virtue of the fact that they are to care for the flock makes them pastors all.For the purpose of, Ephesians 4 vs. 12, 'for the perfecting of the saints (believers), for the WORK OF THE MINISTRY.
This does not mean witnessing out on the street somewhere but it means....
Vs. 16. ....the body fitly joined together, compacted by that which EVERY MEMBER SUPPLIES ACCORDING TO THE EFFECTUAL WORKING IN THE MEASURE OF EVERY PART (member) MAKING INCREASE OF THE BODY UNTO THE EDIFYING OF ITSELF IN LOVE.
All the believers using their spiritual functions outlined in 1Cor12:4-5--6-7 ...there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
differences of administrations but the same Lord.
Diversities of operations but the same God which works all (the functions and gifts) in all (every member).
But the manifestation of the Spirit (the gifts and functions) is GIVEN TO EVERY MAN to profit there with. Not to one man with a title.
Take particular notice. The single salaried pastor preaching a sermon while everyone sits quietly is mysteriously missing. Not a word about him. He did not exist.
Verses 8-12. It catalogues the different spiritual functions/gifts.
Verse 15 tells us not to ace out any one of God's people from ministering. Read these verses please.
Chapter 14:26 ...WHEN YOU COME TOGETHER (the assembly at the appointed time) EVERYONE OF YOU has a (function/gift) a psalm, a doctrine (teaching), a tongue, a revelation (prophetic word) an interpretation. Let all things (ministries by everyone) be done unto edifying.
Verses 27, 29, 30, 31, tells us to 'take turns' with our ministries, decently and in order.
In Romans 12:4-8 tells us that that body of Christ has many members. Not just one that ministers like we have today, the sermonizer. Not all members have the same function. Differing gifts/functions. But they all do have ministering functions.
To recap: WHEN ALL THE BELIEVERS COME TOGETHER, THEY ALL ARE TO MINISTER ONE UNTO ANOTHER OR TO THE WHOLE THEIR SPIRITUAL GIFTS/FUNCTIONS.
The elders, as teachers and pastors, are to train up the new converts into their ministries in the context of the open meeting assembly. The members are to graduate into their spiritual functions. Not just remain students in the pew for the rest of their lives never graduating at all like is done today.
Again, His body has many members. They are to function with Christ as the Master of ceremonies, the Head and director of His assembly, His gathered ecclesia. If not allowed to use what God gave them, they'll die on the vine. If you never use your right arm, it will wither and die.
I've had this discussion with him in PM's and in the forums. I've given him my thoughts on all those scriptures, and he chooses to either ignore, or dismiss them outright. He then turns around and asks me to "explain" them again.
When multiple people explain their thoughts on what those scriptures mean, he then says that everyone is wrong, except him, of course.
I WANT to like YET, I think he's intelligent and loves God, but he has incredible tunnel vision on this whole topic (organized churches with "paid" preachers). ANY other interpretation of what it says is simply wrong, to him.
I sense a persecution complex... he wants to be a "voice crying in the wilderness".. if you don't toe the "no paid preachers" line, you are apostate.
It's sad, in a way...
When multiple people explain their thoughts on what those scriptures mean, he then says that everyone is wrong, except him, of course.
I WANT to like YET, I think he's intelligent and loves God, but he has incredible tunnel vision on this whole topic (organized churches with "paid" preachers). ANY other interpretation of what it says is simply wrong, to him.
I sense a persecution complex... he wants to be a "voice crying in the wilderness".. if you don't toe the "no paid preachers" line, you are apostate.
It's sad, in a way...
I do not have a beef with these chapters. The church does. And the majority on this site does.
I never got the one man show thing I have seen out there for the most part, well when you compare it to the scriptures
Perhaps the word "minister", or "to minister" is tripping him up. Ministering is NOT always TEACHING. Ministering can be walking over and giving someone a hug, or praying with them. Or, singing along with them in praise to God.
We as believers do NOT all have the gift of teaching, nor do we all have the gift of giving comfort. Those scriptures make it VERY plain that we all have different gifts, and we should be able to use them to edify each other.
An elder is a "chosen" position... Paul told Timothy to find men that met certain criteria and appoint them as "elders". The term "pastor" was also used, as was "bishop" or "overseer". Not all men are qualified to be "elders". One of the qualifications of being an elder was that he was to be able to teach. That doesn't mean nobody else can, but that the elder should be able to do so.
Paul taught that the assembly should not be a time of confusion, but of orderly worship... that one or two at the most should "teach". How would that work in a congregation of 200.. 300...900? Having one man appointed to be the main preacher is a very practical result of that teaching. Doesn't mean he's the ONLY one that ever teaches (preaches) in the assembly, but that is his primary job. It's done for the edification of the church.
We as believers do NOT all have the gift of teaching, nor do we all have the gift of giving comfort. Those scriptures make it VERY plain that we all have different gifts, and we should be able to use them to edify each other.
An elder is a "chosen" position... Paul told Timothy to find men that met certain criteria and appoint them as "elders". The term "pastor" was also used, as was "bishop" or "overseer". Not all men are qualified to be "elders". One of the qualifications of being an elder was that he was to be able to teach. That doesn't mean nobody else can, but that the elder should be able to do so.
Paul taught that the assembly should not be a time of confusion, but of orderly worship... that one or two at the most should "teach". How would that work in a congregation of 200.. 300...900? Having one man appointed to be the main preacher is a very practical result of that teaching. Doesn't mean he's the ONLY one that ever teaches (preaches) in the assembly, but that is his primary job. It's done for the edification of the church.
I already know why these verses have been jettisoned and rejected by most of the 'church'.
Jeremiah 5:23-24 These people have stubborn and rebellious hearts. They have turned aside and gone away, abandoned Me.
They do not say 'let us fear the Lord.'
Isaiah 65:2 All day I have held out My hand to an OBSTINATE people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations ( their own traditions of men, doctrines of men).
OBSTINATE: stubbornly refusing to change one's opinion or chosen course of action, despite attempts to persuade one to do so.
There you go Persuaded. I explained those scriptures. Has the word of God persuaded Persuaded yet? Smile. God bless.
Last edited: