When to forgive

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AbigailZeke

AbigailZeke

Beloved
#21
Mar 11, 2016
3,055
242
63
Singapore
abigail.pro
#21
Oh oh, I get your point now. I guess FreeNChrist said it all. Jesus did say "Father forgive them..." while He was on the Cross. As for asking the offender to forgive the victim... Well when Peter attacked the soldier and cut off his ear (in this case, he's the victim, the soldier was the offender for arresting Jesus), well, Jesus certainly didn't ask the soldier to forgive Peter for cutting of his ear. He did heal him, so not sure how to view that.
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#22
#22
psychomom said:
i gots a question :D

what exactly, in Biblical terms is forgiveness?
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Depleted said:
I have to go right after this, but just wanted you to know that's a good question, part of the overall discussion, and it drives me nuts that I can't get an exact line-by-line detailed instruction manual of what it is to figure all this out. So, yes, part of the discussion so doesn't need it's own topic. (Although I can't answer knowing I've asked that question on her more than once before. Sllooooooooowwww learner. lol)
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i can tell you what i learned in church ;)

when God forgives His children, He cancels our sin debt. (which is not the same as imputed righteousness, but it's part of the redemption package, all glory to God)

He has a perfect right to hold that debt against our account and demand payment. but that payment was made by Another, so it's Jubilee! :)

i can usually tell when i'm holding unforgiveness because i want that person to pay.
maybe i'm making the person pay 'merely' by refusing to associate with him/her. but by withholding my 'wonderful presence :rolleyes:', i am still exacting a payment.

now, perhaps that's an illustration best used for spoken offenses... i didn't want to pal around with the guy who raped me.
but by God's grace, i, like you, was eventually able to pray for his salvation.

it does get complicated! i feel certain others will take this further than i am able.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#23
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#23
Where sin abounds, grace did much more abound...it is biblical to forgive...how about Jesus on the cross being killed for humanities sin...Father forgive them for thy know not what they do....how about Stephen while being stoned to death..Forgive them etc.......not that we should facillitate the thief, but forgive the thief....me personally...I would shoot him or hold him at gunpoint until the cops got there.....does not mean that I cannot forgive him.......
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#24
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#24
Depleted said:
It has come to my attention that some folks think we're supposed to forgive even as the offender continues the offense. So, if you come home and someone is robbing your house, help them take the stuff out and show them where the good stuff is. If they plan to shoot you, give them more bullets, in case they run out before they're done. If they insult you, give them more words to use. (I think I've done that one. lol) If they rape you...

Well, you get the idea.

What do you think?

Oh, and if you think we should forgive during, does that then give you the right standing to ask the offender to forgive all the other victims/targets too?
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I don't like ever talking about it but as a child I was sexually abused in many ways that I honestly cannot speak of in a public forum it is extremely gross and very inappropriate but if I could ever meet them again I would let them know I forgive them.
Forgiveness the kind that jesus taught is not so easy for everyone, basically from Jesus we should forgive them 70 times 7 mainly I think he said that specific number for a couple reasons I don't know if one would need to forgive the same person past seven hundred and seventy seven times and also the number itself I think has biblical meaning.

I can tell that your hurting and that you are having a hard time forgiving the one who hurt you raped you or whatever they did. But to answer the question of your title when to forgive, every time. even if they continue over and over again and even if you gain nothing in return for forgiving them think about what God did for us. We have hurt him have offended him have done horrible things to him so much that even if we were to try to make up for it for all eternity we never could make up for it.

but then he does something he forgets and forgives all of it as if our debt was never there.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#25
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#25
Thank You, Sisters...

how moved we are by such precious honesty and as we have learned over the many years,
honesty always bears good fruit to those who are in the Faith....

as many of us have learned the hard-way, walking in un-forgiveness brings forth many
bitter-roots in every bit of our being....but, what we cannot do through our weakness,
Christ will impart His strength that we may be able not only to forgive others but also
to forgive ourselves....
the joy and freedom of having the bitter-roots-of-un-forgiveness plucked-out - it is
definitely a huge step to entering into the Holiness of Jesus Christ....
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#26
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#26
oldethennew said:
Thank You, Sisters...

how moved we are by such precious honesty and as we have learned over the many years,
honesty always bears good fruit to those who are in the Faith....

as many of us have learned the hard-way, walking in un-forgiveness brings forth many
bitter-roots in every bit of our being....but, what we cannot do through our weakness,
Christ will impart His strength that we may be able not only to forgive others but also
to forgive ourselves....
the joy and freedom of having the bitter-roots-of-un-forgiveness plucked-out - it is
definitely a huge step to entering into the Holiness of Jesus Christ....
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Sadly I always have to learn the hard way but I just wanted to say how happy it made me to see everyone so supportive in this thread:)
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#27
#27
Blain said:
Sadly I always have to learn the hard way but I just wanted to say how happy it made me to see everyone so supportive in this thread:)
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I know that all to well,, I have learned the hard way also on things, your not alone in that or post #24
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#28
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
0
71
#28
Depleted said:
It has come to my attention that some folks think we're supposed to forgive even as the offender continues the offense. So, if you come home and someone is robbing your house, help them take the stuff out and show them where the good stuff is. If they plan to shoot you, give them more bullets, in case they run out before they're done. If they insult you, give them more words to use. (I think I've done that one. lol) If they rape you...

Well, you get the idea.

What do you think?

Oh, and if you think we should forgive during, does that then give you the right standing to ask the offender to forgive all the other victims/targets too?
Click to expand...

This might disappoint you, Depleted, but I think we agree on this one. Once the person has repented of their sin, we forgive them. Until then we protect ourselves.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#29
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#29
BeyondET said:
I know that all to well,, I have learned the hard way also on things, your not alone in that or post #24
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hey I would much rather learn the hard way than to never learn at all, and when i finally do learn it sticks although I am not without bruises :b
 
C

coby

Guest
#30
#30
dcontroversal said:
Where sin abounds, grace did much more abound...it is biblical to forgive...how about Jesus on the cross being killed for humanities sin...Father forgive them for thy know not what they do....how about Stephen while being stoned to death..Forgive them etc.......not that we should facillitate the thief, but forgive the thief....me personally...I would shoot him or hold him at gunpoint until the cops got there.....does not mean that I cannot forgive him.......
Click to expand...
Stephen yes. You have to forgive someone that kills you or you're in unforgiveness.
Shoot the thief? Oh my. And then say you forgave him. I forgive you sweety. Poof.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#31
#31
resurrection33 said:

This might disappoint you, Depleted, but I think we agree on this one. Once the person has repented of their sin, we forgive them. Until then we protect ourselves.
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I know many who have withheld forgiveness, waiting for the others repentance. All it did was eat their own lunch, while the one they withheld forgiveness from lived on in merry bliss totally oblivious to it all.
 
A

AuntieAnt

Guest
#33
#33
With the mind of Christ, we can know that the truth of God is the foundation of our decision-making and that He has everything under control.

Whether we have understanding in our flesh about a situation or not, we can know of a truth in our heart that if we submit our mind to the Lord, He will work things out perfectly and we are set free to trust Him with it, 100%. Like a child holding to his or her father’s hand and not having to worry about a thing.

All things really DO work out good for those who love the Lord. Loving Him enough to trust Him with your life.

Otherwise, if it is my own understanding, I am the center of my decision-making. :p

The factors involved would be:
1. What emotions are motivating me at that particular moment (pride, anger, self-righteousness, shame, hate, jealousy, fear, lust, greed, doubt, unforgiveness, etc.)
2. Any deep-rooted bias that lies in my heart of which I don’t even perceive
3. The limited information I have about something or someone
4. The carnal mind, which at every single moment rejects God being in control of it
How in the world do I expect to resolve a conflict with those faulty particulars? It’s insane to think I can judge things or people fairly based on my own biased preconceptions! If I don’t act on things with the mind of Christ, if my decision-making isn't with God's perfect fairness, I’m in error.

Mind you, I’m in error all the time. My flesh, that is. My flesh never shuts up proclaiming its rights and its opinions! Nevertheless, neither does the Holy Spirit stop overcoming my weakness at every moment. Each step we take we are learning to trust Christ Jesus in our spirit more and more and putting less and less faith in our selfish flesh. And each time we do, our spiritual life gets easier and sweeter because we see how in control God really is in us and in those around us.
 
P

psalm6819

Guest
#34
#34
Unforgivenss poisons the soul and will eat you up while doing absolutely nothing to the person who wronged you.

God says He will fight our battles and vindicate us.

I'll do it His way because otherwise I live with constant heartburn form being angry/frustrated/waiting for them to get thier comeuppance.

Unforgiveness only damages the one who should forgive not the offender.

NOT victims, we aren't victims we are conquerors, that's why we can forgive.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#35
#35
Blain said:
hey I would much rather learn the hard way than to never learn at all, and when i finally do learn it sticks although I am not without bruises :b
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Indeed me too and neither am I without bruises, but from all that has happen I'm stronger from that in my ability to forgive others. surely many people are still struggling to find their strength to forgive things that are hurting their Hearts....
but Jesus is patience he knows and so do I...
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#36
#36
On the subject of forgiveness, for me looking back on my past forgiveness was probably the one thing I held onto that kept me from going completely rouge,ballistic
 
A

AuntieAnt

Guest
#37
#37
God created us in His own image. We are made to think His perfect thoughts and to reason like our Father. The things we’ve been conditioned to from birth and our own weakness in believing those lies keeps us in bondage. We are in bondage to acting out in the flesh like immature rebellious children. The Lord is restoring our minds, maturing us in the spirit, giving us a new way of reasoning, that is, with the mind of Christ. Christ is us makes us see the truth and set us free to be like Him. :)
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#38
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#38
when we reach a point of maturity in our walk with our Saviour where our hearts and minds and actions
do truly align with what He has been teaching us since our conversion, then we know that we are truly
walking in the Light, His Light, where He has taught us the rules and regulations and requirements
that we have so earnestly submitted our hearts and minds to learn and obey and thus to be able to be honored
to be known as 'The True Children of The Alpha and Omega, The First and The Last, members of God's Holy Family.......
 
H

Hellooo

Guest
#39
#39
resurrection33 said:
Once the person has repented of their sin, we forgive them. Until then we protect ourselves.
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Do you think forgiveness is conditional, to be offered only upon repentance?
Why?
This immediately made me think of the example provided in Luke 23:34
 
H

Hellooo

Guest
#40
#40
I've found that rather than being a form of protection, it becomes more toxic to hold on to resentment against those who have wronged us.
 
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