Once Saved Always saved....Read this

[eternally-gratefull]

I won't add a thing! It is you who are taking away

How can you take away something that already cost you nothing?

Can you answer that?

Grace means Charity or mercy, It means something that is not earned.

You can nnot get free-er than free..

Now you can be licentious, And reject grace altogether, becaud you have a belief, but absolutely no faith in Christ at all.

Or you can be legalistic, and add works.

But you can not take anything away from grace and make it no longer grace, grace is already at its lowest common denominator.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I already answered nutjob! You are to busy waging war with me

That's how he gets his jollies during downtime at work.

 

[Chuckt]

It's the bogus claim that grace believers are gnostic...it's just because certain people don't understand about the new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness and that the old man is dead..nor do they understand the circumcision of Christ and the flesh....they can't figure out spiritual truths because they are operating from their own natural mind.

So, to them the new man in Christ is a mystery and to them it makes it look "gnostic" ..you will soon find out that anyone that doesn't agree with their views are gnostic whether they believe in the gospel of the grace of Christ or not......it's the nature of the beast...

I have books against Gnosticism. I am not a Gnostic.
I believe in grace. This whole argument takes us outside of the Bible.

Hebrews 13:11. For the bodies of those beasts whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

Hebrews 9:7,9, 25 says the priests entered in with their own blood.

We are allowed to enter in by the blood of Jesus:

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter in the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

Acts 20:28 says we are purchased with his own blood.

That is grace and it shows ownership and no one can snatched me out of my father's hand (John 10:29).

I belong to Jesus now by believing in him and the trust in Him makes me his possession and He will take me to heaven based upon what Jesus did.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Oh so now your into name calling.

I am not waging war, I just asked a simple question..

And no. I went back. You have been to busy answering me then trying to answer him.

He won't be here much longer, not with that language.. :/

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's how he gets his jollies during downtime at work.

Yet another one who does nothing but attack. Should I report both of you?

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree....it's a bogus claim that certain ones have that believers in the grace of Christ are gnostic..it's very telling that they really have no idea about the new creation nor about the old man being dead...they really have very little understanding of some spiritual truths associated with the new birth in Christ....so we are all gnostic in their minds .... ...

I have books against Gnosticism. I am not a Gnostic.
I believe in grace. This whole argument takes us outside of the Bible.

Hebrews 13:11. For the bodies of those beasts whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

Hebrews 9:7,9, 25 says the priests entered in with their own blood.

We are allowed to enter in by the blood of Jesus:

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter in the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

Acts 20:28 says we are purchased with his own blood.

That is grace and it shows ownership and no one can snatched me out of my father's hand (John 10:29).

I belong to Jesus now by believing in him and the trust in Him makes me his possession and He will take me to heaven based upon what Jesus did.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He won't be here much longer, not with that language.. :/

I guess they think that will convince people to see things their way?

 

[blue_ladybug]

I guess they think that will convince people to see things their way?

​Nah it just makes them think they're more superior than everyone else. They have to use insults, it's their low mentality..

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It's the bogus claim that grace believers are gnostic...it's just because certain people don't understand about the new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness and that the old man is dead..nor do they understand the circumcision of Christ and the flesh....they can't figure out spiritual truths because they are operating from their own natural mind.

So, to them the new man in Christ is a mystery and to them it makes it look "gnostic" ..you will soon find out that anyone that doesn't agree with their views are gnostic whether they believe in the gospel of the grace of Christ or not......it's the nature of the beast...

That must be because they don't have the special "grace" believer g̶n̶o̶s̶i̶s̶ "lens" that enables them to see their new identity as an incorruptible spirit being that can never be defiled by the deeds of the body because the new man is spiritual and eternal (as "grace" believers teach).

Against Heresies

2. Animal men, again, are instructed in animal things; such men, namely, as are established by their works, and by a mere faith, while they have not perfect knowledge. We of the Church, [the gnostics] say, are these persons. Wherefore also they maintain that good works are necessary to us, for that otherwise it is impossible we should be saved. But as to themselves, [the gnostics] hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption [of sin], whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions [i.e., conduct] in which they may be involved.
​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That must be because they don't have the special "grace" believer g̶n̶o̶s̶i̶s̶ "lens" that enables them to see their new identity as an incorruptible spirit being that can never be defiled by the deeds of the body because the new man is spiritual and eternal (as "grace" believers teach).

Against Heresies

2. Animal men, again, are instructed in animal things; such men, namely, as are established by their works, and by a mere faith, while they have not perfect knowledge. We of the Church, [the gnostics] say, are these persons. Wherefore also they maintain that good works are necessary to us, for that otherwise it is impossible we should be saved. But as to themselves, [the gnostics] hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption [of sin], whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions [i.e., conduct] in which they may be involved.
​

what scripture is this posted from?

 

[Grace777x70]

The inner man is born by the Spirit of God....I love the scriptures..they are so "revealing" of the truth of who we are in Christ because of His grace.

We are one Spirit with the Lord.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


Ephesians 4:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.


Ephesians 1:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[Nikki84]

Goodbye friends, you have little club here that doesn't want alternative views

 

[valiant]

y

Originally Posted by Nikki84

I saw an interesting post yesterday about gnostics. The Grace only message is what they taught and they have been rejected

you obviously haven't a clue what gnostics taught so go and learn properly before you make an even bigger fool of yourself,

 

[posthuman]

before i read 10 pages of this --
can someone just fill me in if it's the same old, same old again?

i.e. anyone rejoicing in grace is being accused of lasciviousness?
and anyone preaching obedience is being accused of legalism?

 

[posthuman]

while i'm here -- (still without having read the thread)


what i know is that it's God who works in me, who began the work, and who will finish the work. and my faith is in His faithfulness, not my own - so if i doubt, i doubt Him, and if i am secure, it is because i trust Him.
He is the one redeeming and reforming me and causing me to love Him, and perfecting in me that love. and love obeys His commands.
i don't think there's much to add to that except that it's the joy of our salvation that ought to be restored, not anxiety.

in all this i am grateful eternally! and can boast of nothing! all glory honor & power is His alone

 

[Nikki84]

LOL...........................

 

[FreeNChrist]

while i'm here -- (still without having read the thread)


what i know is that it's God who works in me, who began the work, and who will finish the work. and my faith is in His faithfulness, not my own - so if i doubt, i doubt Him, and if i am secure, it is because i trust Him.
He is the one redeeming and reforming me and causing me to love Him, and perfecting in me that love. and love obeys His commands.
i don't think there's much to add to that except that it's the joy of our salvation that ought to be restored, not anxiety.

in all this i am grateful eternally! and can boast of nothing! all glory honor & power is His alone

You're obviously a Gnostic heretic.........

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The inner man is born by the Spirit of God....I love the scriptures..they are so "revealing" of the truth of who we are in Christ because of His grace.

We are one Spirit with the Lord.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


Ephesians 4:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.


Ephesians 1:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Yes, the inner man is born of the spirit, but we are not just the inner man. We have an old man, too, that hasn't gone anywhere and will be with us until we die.

"Grace" believers don't believe that it's possible to walk in righteousness with a consciousness of their sin nature, and the concomitant imperative to overcome it. Thus they dissociate from what they call sin-consciousness by considering the flesh and the body to be separate and distinct. In other words, mental separation is made between the flesh and the body, which allows for the belief that the body is sinless. The sinful flesh, then, simply becomes an idea that is compartmentalized in the mind and discarded (ignored, denied) because it is the old man that was crucified and no longer exists. This process of denying the existence of sinful flesh and identifying only with the incorruptible spirit and sinless body is what 'grace' believers call the renewing of the mind.

The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament has a good description of this mental dissociation process in which a person only identifies with what they want to be (their identity as the righteousness of GOD), and blots out any consciousness or idea contrary to it (their sin nature).

f. Gnosticism offers a radical solution to the conflict of conscience. It is true that instances are very sparse. But the basic dualistic solution involves a full separation between the two egos. The true I of the Gnostic is identical with the divine world of light, while the other I belongs to the chaotic world and is thus to be abandoned. In the final analysis, then, there is no bad conscience for the Gnostic. Naturally this opens the door not merely to asceticism but also to libertinism.​

Paul talks about the two 'I's mentioned above in Romans 7-8, in which victory is found, not through denial of the sinful flesh's existence, but through not obeying it in grace through faith.

 

[Grace777x70]

LOL..aren't we all that believe in the gospel of the grace of Christ alone....the pure gospel...no additives, no insecticides or pesticides......

You're obviously a Gnostic heretic.........

 

[valiant]

That must be because they don't have the special "grace" believer g̶n̶o̶s̶i̶s̶ "lens" that enables them to see their new identity as an incorruptible spirit being that can never be defiled by the deeds of the body because the new man is spiritual and eternal (as "grace" believers teach).

Against Heresies

2. Animal men, again, are instructed in animal things; such men, namely, as are established by their works, and by a mere faith, while they have not perfect knowledge. We of the Church, [the gnostics] say, are these persons. Wherefore also they maintain that good works are necessary to us, for that otherwise it is impossible we should be saved. But as to themselves, [the gnostics] hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption [of sin], whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions [i.e., conduct] in which they may be involved.
​

these man say their spirits were saved by knowledge (not by Jesus Christ) so that what their flesh did did not matter, they were saved by emanating to a higher spirit, and then an even higher one, (one of which was the Christ) and so on. when they died their spirits would attain pure spirithood, They did not beiieve in the grace of God, or in a resurrection,

Learn what they really taught instead of quoting half truths!!!
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