Once Saved Always saved....Read this
- Thread starter Josefnospam
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
P
phil112
Guest
I haven't done my own page, but I've edited erroneous information also. It isn't hard, and for bad info to be corrected someone has to catch it. Wiki can be useful, but it isn't ironclad evidence on its own.
That's true. It's a great for mining resources and getting a general feel for a subject.
What must we do to add to what Christ has already done? We are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). I teach that righteous conduct is the proof of faith (we show our faith by our works), but I don't teach that our righteous conduct is the means of our salvation, as you seem to teach.
So where do you draw the line in the sand on staying holy? Does God grade on a curve?
So you don't believe that you can know for sure that you have eternal life? All you can do is hope that you have remained "holy enough" and made the grade? Is that what you believe?
No, this is what I believe
And the one who keeps his commandments abides in him, and he in him. And by this we know that he abides in us: by the Spirit whom he has given to us. 1 John 3:24
All who are abiding in Christ are safe from judgment.
Those are DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture. Descriptive of those who are born of God.
The problem as I see it, the grace only crowd would call righteous conduct a "works based salvation".
We are saved FOR righteous conduct/good works; not by righteous conduct/good works. Big difference.
Doing righteous deeds by themselves does not make one righteous. This is having the cart before the horse.
We are doing righteous deeds because Christ has made us righteous ( is what 1 John chapter 3 is talking about. ) This shows the difference between the devil and those that belong to Christ. John was describing a believer and an unbeliever.
I know there have been "good" people doing "righteous deeds " but they were not belonging to God. Many religions have moral living people in them - all doing "righteous deeds".
Here is how righteousness comes to a believer....we need to be righteousness conscious...not sin-conscious...we have a new creation in Christ now! This "righteousness " will manifest outwardly in doing righteous deeds - but we need the "horse" in front first.
The "horse" being Christ's righteousness in us because of our being in Christ in our inner man..our new creation in Christ.
Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness and sin not..when you see who you are in Him in your new man..you become like Him outwardly.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
are being transformed = passive = the action is being done to you - you are not doing it..the Spirit of the Lord changes us as we behold Christ.
Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells..
We are doing righteous deeds because Christ has made us righteous ( is what 1 John chapter 3 is talking about. ) This shows the difference between the devil and those that belong to Christ. John was describing a believer and an unbeliever.
I know there have been "good" people doing "righteous deeds " but they were not belonging to God. Many religions have moral living people in them - all doing "righteous deeds".
Here is how righteousness comes to a believer....we need to be righteousness conscious...not sin-conscious...we have a new creation in Christ now! This "righteousness " will manifest outwardly in doing righteous deeds - but we need the "horse" in front first.
The "horse" being Christ's righteousness in us because of our being in Christ in our inner man..our new creation in Christ.
Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness and sin not..when you see who you are in Him in your new man..you become like Him outwardly.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
are being transformed = passive = the action is being done to you - you are not doing it..the Spirit of the Lord changes us as we behold Christ.
Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells..
...there is a vast difference between D.I. Y. self-righteousness/holiness and having God's righteousness in Christ change us by His Spirit.
Knowing who you are in Christ because of His finished work that made us "alive" unto God now will change our outward behavior...."awake to righteousness and sin not..".....this is a call to see who you are in Christ and in knowing that....His life in you changes our behavior..
Knowing that we are dead to sin and "alive" to God is what is needed for real transformation in a Christian's life.
It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is already in us in Christ..in our inner man..the new creation.
There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior outwardly to reflect our true self in the Lord now. It's definitely a process.
1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
The question remains..is it us doing it by our own self-effort?..or the life of Christ with His fruit bearing in and through our lives.
Knowing who you are in Christ because of His finished work that made us "alive" unto God now will change our outward behavior...."awake to righteousness and sin not..".....this is a call to see who you are in Christ and in knowing that....His life in you changes our behavior..
Knowing that we are dead to sin and "alive" to God is what is needed for real transformation in a Christian's life.
It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is already in us in Christ..in our inner man..the new creation.
There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior outwardly to reflect our true self in the Lord now. It's definitely a process.
1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
The question remains..is it us doing it by our own self-effort?..or the life of Christ with His fruit bearing in and through our lives.
This where you err by conflating justification with sanctification. GOD provides the spirit that sanctifies the vessel, but he doesn't control what vessel is filled with.
That is the crux of the saved by grace through faith believers and the works-based salvationsits where you need to "do" things to maintain your "free gift"...it's a false gospel and it is a self-righteousness/holiness gospel..which is no gospel at all.
When we say we are saved by grace through faith only...they think we want to go out and sin all we want..it's a foolish accusation and it is just a straw-man.
What it boils down to is that ...do we trust the Spirit of God inside of us?...or do we trust our own self-effort and righteousness....that is the crux of a lot of these debates.
When we say we are saved by grace through faith only...they think we want to go out and sin all we want..it's a foolish accusation and it is just a straw-man.
What it boils down to is that ...do we trust the Spirit of God inside of us?...or do we trust our own self-effort and righteousness....that is the crux of a lot of these debates.