Question on post trib rapture.

[popeye]

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Dan 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time(three and one half years).

Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This is something that you can sink your teeth in to,and is clear cut,and not obscure.

The Bible says that the saints will not be gathered unto Christ until the man of sin addresses the world,and gives his speech that there is no personal God to help them,but technology,and people's devices,can solve their problems,and try to achieve peace on earth,which this happens halfway through the tribulation period.

Then the Bible says he makes war against the saints,and overcomes them,and wears them out,and when he accomplishes to scatter their power,then all things are finished,which would not happen before the tribulation,and would not happen during the first half of the tribulation,because he has not addressed the world yet,that he is the solution to have peace on earth,so he can only scatter their power during the last half of the tribulation,which the Bible says it was given to him to make war against the saints,and they shall be given in to his hands for three and one half years.

God is allowing the world 7 years to cause all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,and take the mark,and go against the truth,to the point of going against the saints,for God will not give up on the world,until the world gives up on Him,and going against the saints testifies that they surely do not want God,and do not believe He exists,and do not want the people that claim Him to even be on the earth.

That is why the Bible says that if the days are not shortened that God allows the antichrist to rule,which is three and one half years,no flesh would be saved,but for the sake of the elect He shortened the days,proving the saints are on earth,when he rules the last half of the tribulation.

Not too bad. You are at least getting it part right.

The ones beheaded by the AC, are those left behind.
He kills every human refusing the mark.

The rapture is at the revealing of the first seal. So those left behind will have several rude awakenings.

Read the 10 virgin parable. Clearly half the church misses the rapture.

Only pretrib covers every single dimension.

We literally own end times.

Every other position leaves out our verses.

They HAVE TO.

 

[Persuaded]

Not too bad. You are at least getting it part right.

The ones beheaded by the AC, are those left behind.
He kills every human refusing the mark.

The rapture is at the revealing of the first seal. So those left behind will have several rude awakenings.

Read the 10 virgin parable. Clearly half the church misses the rapture.

Only pretrib covers every single dimension.

We literally own end times.

Every other position leaves out our verses.

They HAVE TO.

Why is half the church left behind?
What Scripture teaches this?

 

[popeye]

Why is half the church left behind?
What Scripture teaches this?

Mat 25 , Half the belivers were not allowed into heaven due to not being intimate with Jesus.

"Pray that you be counted worthy to escape..."

"...many are called but few are chosen"

"...one taken,one left.."

"...because you have kept my word,I will keep you from the hour of testing.."

"..and they have washed their dirty robes in the blood..."
(speaking of those left behind)

Plus,the AC kills all who refuse the mark,(again,those five foolish refusing the mark),so there will be none alive to rapture.





Incredible harmony in the pretrib position.

 

[popeye]

Why is half the church left behind?
What Scripture teaches this?

Why?

Because they were foolish.

Not enough oil.

They watched,they waited,they were born again,(undefiled,virgins), but were not intimate.

They were fence sitters. Paul said of some "having loved this present world"

That sums up over half the church. I hang out with those "types" I see them all the time.

After the rapture,they have no choice,but to man up,and die for Jesus.

 

[GaryA]

That would be post tribs only shaky banner verse.

"I believe your post is a bit shaky..."

1 ) angels gather,not Jesus

This is nothing but nitpicking subterfuge...

Can a military officer be said to have accomplished the defeat of his enemy by virtue of commanding his battalion of soldiers to follow his plan-of-attack, resulting in victory?

Angels gather, but Jesus collects / assembles His elect.

2) they are gathered from heaven. Mat 24 has the same dialog.
,and they are gathered by angels from heaven Only.

Mark 13:

[SUP]26[/SUP] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. [SUP]27[/SUP] And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

3) No dead are raised from graves

You cannot dictate out-of-hand that the verse is talking about the living only.

It says in the passage that Jesus comes "with great power and glory" --- do you not think that He will have the power to raise the dead?

4) the parable of the 10 virgins has 5 left behind at the rapture. Postrib theory confuses that parable in that you guys have nowhere to go with those left behind. (they are believers,and waited with the others,and had lamps and oil.....just not enough)

If, at the end of the parable scenario, both the wise 5 and the foolish 5 are all born-again Christians -- why will the Lord tell half of them "I know you not"...? Does He "not know" any of His children?

If the parable is talking about who will be, and not be, part of the Bride -- will the Lord tell those of His children who "did not make the cut" that He does not know them?

( I say this to make a point. Do you see what it is? Do you even care? )

In any case, the parable itself does not define the timing of the return of the Lord; rather, it "speaks to" the "state" of the kingdom after He comes. After the description of the end of Matthew 24, chapter 25 starts out with:

"Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened..."

--- which makes this abundantly clear...

5) that post trib "rapture" you refer to voids Jesus words at the last supper about us being with him,in houses,in heaven,at the marriage supper.

Please post the verses which you believe say this.

6) The AC KILLS ALL refusing the mark. So that right there destroys any hope in those 2 (lone postrib verses)....that are only referring to the second coming and angels gathering saints from heaven to return WITH JESUS as declared in rev 19

If the "gathering" occurs at the Third Coming of Christ -- or, if you prefer, the second part of the Second Coming of Christ -- how will those saints "return with Jesus"...???

BTW,Rev 19 alone places the bride as the wife,IN HEAVEN,DURING THE GT.

No it doesn't --- in the context of the passage, she is not even His wife yet ( not yet married ). Revelation 19:7 is talking about the point-in-time of the wedding... ( i.e. - it is at the time of the marriage / wedding that the 'grammar of the language' is indicating... )

Is it not also the time of the marriage supper? ( verse 9 )

Well your only verse,is pretrib,not post

There are no 'pre-trib' verses...

 

[PlainWord]

[SUP]31 [/SUP]“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. [SUP]32 [/SUP]All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. [SUP]33 [/SUP]And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: [SUP]35 [/SUP]for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; [SUP]36 [/SUP]I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

The above is discussing the nations that sided with those under oppression during the Great Tribulation. The sheep nations will stand against the Muslims who are committing atrocities against Israel and Christians in the Middle east. The goat nations are those who turned a blind eye and didn't lift a finger to help.

 

[PlainWord]

the 144,000 - at the very least...

I have a different take on the 144K now. They are called "FIRSTFRUITS" right?

Revelation 14:4

These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

The concept of "firstfruits" is of course to give the first of the harvest to the Lord. Who were the "first" saved? Who were redeemed first? Who is listed below as the first?

1 Corinthians 15:23

But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

We know the 144K are 12K from each tribe. Well, there are no more tribes and haven't been since the scattering. Therefore, I believe the firstfruits, the 144K are actually OT saints from the original tribes of Israel. Just my theory.

 

[popeye]

"I believe your post is a bit shaky..."



This is nothing but nitpicking subterfuge...

Can a military officer be said to have accomplished the defeat of his enemy by virtue of commanding his battalion of soldiers to follow his plan-of-attack, resulting in victory?

Angels gather, but Jesus collects / assembles His elect.



Mark 13:

[SUP]26[/SUP] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. [SUP]27[/SUP] And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.



You cannot dictate out-of-hand that the verse is talking about the living only.

It says in the passage that Jesus comes "with great power and glory" --- do you not think that He will have the power to raise the dead?



If, at the end of the parable scenario, both the wise 5 and the foolish 5 are all born-again Christians -- why will the Lord tell half of them "I know you not"...? Does He "not know" any of His children?

If the parable is talking about who will be, and not be, part of the Bride -- will the Lord tell those of His children who "did not make the cut" that He does not know them?

( I say this to make a point. Do you see what it is? Do you even care? )

In any case, the parable itself does not define the timing of the return of the Lord; rather, it "speaks to" the "state" of the kingdom after He comes. After the description of the end of Matthew 24, chapter 25 starts out with:

"Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened..."

--- which makes this abundantly clear...



Please post the verses which you believe say this.



If the "gathering" occurs at the Third Coming of Christ -- or, if you prefer, the second part of the Second Coming of Christ -- how will those saints "return with Jesus"...???



No it doesn't --- in the context of the passage, she is not even His wife yet ( not yet married ). Revelation 19:7 is talking about the point-in-time of the wedding... ( i.e. - it is at the time of the marriage / wedding that the 'grammar of the language' is indicating... )

Is it not also the time of the marriage supper? ( verse 9 )



There are no 'pre-trib' verses...

Not one of your items are true,and if you don't know what Jesus said at the last supper,that alone testifies you are clueless to the business Jesus addressed to his followers that would take place in heaven.

postribs uturn invention voids any activities in heaven,so you guys invent one thing after another to skip heaven.

Rediculous postrib games.

 

[GaryA]

Not one of your items are true,and if you don't know what Jesus said at the last supper,that alone testifies you are clueless to the business Jesus addressed to his followers that would take place in heaven.

postribs uturn invention voids any activities in heaven,so you guys invent one thing after another to skip heaven.

Rediculous postrib games.

"Excuses, excuses..."


You do not believe that this verse actually says what is highlighted in red? :


Mark 13:

[SUP]26[/SUP] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. [SUP]27[/SUP] And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

 

[PlainWord]

Why is half the church left behind?
What Scripture teaches this?

The Church is neither taken or left behind. The "Church" in the Middle East is all but decimated. There is no church there to pre-trib "rapture." The Church in the rest of the world, not affected by the Beast, is fine. The Church is outside the area of the Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God that follows.

Incidentally, the ones taken are the Tares, then the Wheat is gathered into the barn, see Mat 13. Jesus was the one telling the parable in Mat 13 and so when He brings it up again in Mat 24, the topic is the same. The Tares are "bundled" and "taken to be burned." This has nothing to do with any rapture.

Christ gathers His to Himself when He returns. He doesn't fly anyone off to heaven. After all, He is coming here, we are not going to where He came from, rather we are staying with Him here for His reign.

 

[Persuaded]

Mat 25 , Half the belivers were not allowed into heaven due to not being intimate with Jesus.

"Pray that you be counted worthy to escape..."

"...many are called but few are chosen"

"...one taken,one left.."

"...because you have kept my word,I will keep you from the hour of testing.."

"..and they have washed their dirty robes in the blood..."
(speaking of those left behind)

Plus,the AC kills all who refuse the mark,(again,those five foolish refusing the mark),so there will be none alive to rapture.







Incredible harmony in the pretrib position.

So half the church, those who are not foolish, will be resurrected and or raptured before the tribulation.
The other half who are left will be killed by the anti-christ.
When will those killed by the anti-christ have their dead bodies resurrected and changed into a glorified body?
How does that agree with Rev. 20:4-6?

 

[popeye]

So half the church, those who are not foolish, will be resurrected and or raptured before the tribulation.
The other half who are left will be killed by the anti-christ.
When will those killed by the anti-christ have their dead bodies resurrected and changed into a glorified body?
How does that agree with Rev. 20:4-6?

rev 20 is not the first resurrection.

Read it again. It puts no time frame on those beheaded.
It is,actually, referring to the innumerable number mentioned earlier IN HEAVEN DURING THE GT.

Post tribs need it to "BE" "THE" first resurrection,when in fact they are Part of the first resurrection.

As far as the dead raised during the pretrin rapture,it says "the dead in Christ",so that is who is raised.Jesus himself knows who are his.

Once it is understood that there are not2sets of beheaded believers,then rev 20 becomes clear.

 

[popeye]

Also,note that martyrs were not allowed in heavens general population. They were confined to some chamber under the altar.

Untill their number is fulfilled. Then they populated heaven BEFORE THE THRONE.

what changed?

Their number was fulfilled,via those left behind,and those stragglers saved and beheaded.

It all happens During the GT. NOTafter.

Look up the one on a cloud with a sickle. (possibly rev 17 0r so)

That is a harvest DURING THE GT.


Proving harvest is 4 parts,as directed in Leviticus.

 

[truthman8]

(1 Thes.4:13-18)

"
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord." First, this is not pre-tribulation Rapture. It is post. It is a strange passage, but confirms my belief that the Rapture affects both living and dead saints in a moment. But when do saints go up to meet Christ? Christ comes down, lands on the Mount of Olives, and doesn't leave. Are the clouds water vapor, or are they the crafts of the angels? After all, Elijah was translated, but taken up into a fiery chariot. Jesus ascended, but had to keep the body, and couldn't become abstract. So he actually had to go up into a craft of some kind. The clouds of heaven are mentioned elsewhere in Scripture, and are indicated to be the crafts of the angels. Are the saints united to Christ as He is coming down? Does make sense. Getting to live on the Earth would be arranged at a later time, most likely the beginning of Millennium in 2028. So the soul's reconnection to God via Christ comes first, and a new body comes later on Earth.

 

[Kentalfred]

The dead in Christ rise first, then those who are alive and remain. They do this at the sound of a trumpet. 1 Cor 15 indicates clearly that the dead go up at the last trumpet. This is exactly what Christ is referring to in Matthew 24, gathering His elect from the 4 winds of heaven. Who will be with Christ during the millenial reign? Revelation 20:[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[SUP][a][/SUP] thousand years.. Raptured on the end of an axe.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The dead in Christ rise first, then those who are alive and remain. They do this at the sound of a trumpet. 1 Cor 15 indicates clearly that the dead go up at the last trumpet. This is exactly what Christ is referring to in Matthew 24, gathering His elect from the 4 winds of heaven.

Hi Kentalfred,

Here are the two scriptures regarding your claim:

"And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call" (Mt.24:31)

"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet." (1 Cor.15:51-52)

When reading scripture, we need to pay attention to the details. In Mt.24:31, he sends out his angels with a loud trumpet call, where in 1 Cor.15:51-52, the dead rise at the sounding of the last trumpet. Now, you said "This is exactly what Christ is referring to Mt.24, but as you can see these two are different types of trumpets, aren't they? There are trumpets, specifically during the times of Israel which represented different things, such as the gathering of the entire community, a gathering for war, etc. Therefore, just because a trumpet is mentioned in scripture, does not mean that it is unique to the last trumpet being spoken of in regards to the gathering of the church.

There is a very good reason--to name one-- why the trumpet in Mt.24:31 cannot be referring to the gathering of the church and that is, it would put the church through the entire wrath of God and that because Jesus doesn't return to the earth to end the age until after the 7th bowl has been poured out as revealed in Rev.16:15 at the pouring out of the 6th bowl. One of the major problems with expositors, is the error of making the gathering of the church synonymous with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, when they are two separate events! As long as people continue to not recognize this, then the errors will continue.

Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

The first thing to take notice of in the scripture above, is that there is only a resurrection taking place here and there is no mention of the living being changed and caught up as described in 1 thes.4:13-18 & 1 Cor.15:51-52. And second, the mistake that many expositors make is their interpretation of the "First resurrection." They get it into their heads that "first resurrection" means "only resurrection," that is, this resurrection is the only resurrection that takes place and therefore, everyone must be resurrected here in Rev.20:4-6, which is impossible. Below are all of the phases or stages that belong to the "first resurrection."

* Jesus the first fruits (1 Cor.15:23)

* The church at His appearing (1 Thes.4:13-18, 1 Cor.15:51-52)

* The Male child/144,000 (Rev.12:5)

* The two witnesses (Rev.11:11)

* The great tribulation saints (Rev.20:4-6)

As you can see, the first resurrection mentioned in Rev.20:4-6 cannot be the only resurrection that falls under the banner of first resurrection, for all of those listed above belong to it. We know that those who are resurrected in Rev.20:4-6 are the great tribulation saints introduced in Rev.7:9-17. They are the saints who will be here during the time of God's wrath and the beasts reign, as can be deduced by the fact that they were killed because they would not worship the beast, his image nor receive his mark, which would put this group as being in the last 3 1/2 years. In addition, you will never see the word "church" used from chapter 4 thru 18 during the narrative of God's wrath. The church/bride on the other hand, are those who are seen following the Lord out of heaven on white horses, wearing fine linen, bright and clean that they will have received in Rev.19:6-8 and are identified as his called, chosen and faithful followers in Rev.17:14, 19:14.

In conclusion, the Lord is going to remove his church prior to pouring his out his wrath upon the entire earth and take them back to His Father's house to those dwelling place that he said he was going back to prepare for us, as promised in John 14:1-3. For scripture states that Jesus rescued us from the coming wrath and also that we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that because Christ already suffered it for us.

 

[popeye]

The dead in Christ rise first, then those who are alive and remain. They do this at the sound of a trumpet. 1 Cor 15 indicates clearly that the dead go up at the last trumpet. This is exactly what Christ is referring to in Matthew 24, gathering His elect from the 4 winds of heaven. Who will be with Christ during the millenial reign? Revelation 20:[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[SUP][a][/SUP] thousand years.. Raptured on the end of an axe.

You post tribs do this over and over.

You jettison our verses and micromanage definitions into oblivion.

It only works in your circles.

Harmony is lost.

Get a post trib to "interpret" the parable of the 10 virgins and get a chuckle when they put their bizarre definitions on that no brainer.

 

[popeye]

Also,note that martyrs were not allowed in heavens general population. They were confined to some chamber under the altar.

Untill their number is fulfilled. Then they populated heaven BEFORE THE THRONE.

what changed?

Their number was fulfilled,via those left behind,and those stragglers saved and beheaded.

It all happens During the GT. NOTafter.

Look up the one on a cloud with a sickle. (possibly rev 17 0r so)

That is a harvest DURING THE GT.


Proving harvest is 4 parts,as directed in Leviticus.

This^^^^^

Postrib nightmare

LOL

 

[PlainWord]

There are only 2 resurrections, not 4 or 5 as some foolish people suggest.

1 Cor 15: [SUP]22 [/SUP]For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father...

Resurrection #1: Christ the Firstfruits
Resurrection #2: Everyone else, at His coming

Then comes the end and the kingdom is delivered to the Father. The Tribulation is not after "the END" it is before "the END." The timing of the resurrection is always given at the End, just prior to the Judgment.

John 6: [SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. [SUP]44 [/SUP]No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. [SUP]54 [/SUP]Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11: [SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.[SUP] 24 [/SUP]Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

How can the resurrection be before the Great Tribulation if it is on the Last Day. Does not the Tribulation contain "MORE DAYS?"

There are no other resurrections. There are no other phases or parts to other resurrections. In fact the word, "resurrection" appears 40 times in the KJV. In all 40 times the word is singular and never plural. You are either resurrected unto eternal life or unto eternal (spiritual) death. That's it.

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Daniel confirms this:

Dan 12: [SUP]2 [/SUP]And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Indeed, if you read Dan 12 you get the timing of the resurrection as AFTER the TRIBULATION, not before it.

“At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

We see that the "Time of Trouble" comes BEFORE the resurrection. This "Time of Trouble" is the Great Tribulation which applies to Israel.

Mrk 13: [SUP]19 [/SUP]For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24: [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Thus, the resurrection is AFTER the TRIBULATION and BEFORE the JUDGMENT!!

 

[PlainWord]

When the angel came to Mary, he told her this about Jesus:

Luke 1: [SUP]32 [/SUP]He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. [SUP]33 [/SUP]And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”

Notice the future tense, "will give Him the throne?" Jesus doesn't get the throne until after His death. After His resurrection, Jesus tells his disciples this:

Mat 28: [SUP]18 [/SUP]And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit...

Shortly after this Christ ascend to Heaven:

Acts 1: [SUP]9 [/SUP]Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

Christ is taken to heaven with a heavenly "cloud." Daniel actually saw the other end of the event after Christ returned to heaven and he describes it here:

[SUP]13 [/SUP]“I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.

This "Kingdom" of which the Gospel is preached, is not given to us with observation as it is spiritual. Luke 17 tells us:

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; [SUP]21 [/SUP]nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

To explain the Kingdom of Heaven to His disciples, Jesus spoke in many parables such as these from Mat 13.

Hidden Treasure
Pearl of Great Price
Household Treasures
The Yeast
The Mustard Seed
The Sprouting Seed
The Dragnet

So when Jesus tells the parable of the 10 Virgins He is speaking of how the Kingdom comes to some, but not others. Some very foolish people completely misconstrue the meaning of the 10 virgins and try to argue that it proves a Pre-Tribulation return when in fact it proves the opposite.

A key fact is that the Bridegroom is delayed. He doesn't come as quickly as hoped. Had the Bridegroom not been delayed, all 10 virgins would of had enough oil and all would have been accepted. All ten virgins fell asleep waiting for the Bridegroom to come. All ten lamps were going out, depleted of oil because of the delay. In this regard, all ten virgins are the same. All ten are awakened by the announcement that He at last was coming. So far, so good for all 10.

There is only one difference between the 5 foolish and 5 wise virgins. The 5 foolish virgins thought the Bridegroom was coming sooner, rather than later while the 5 wise virgins anticipated a later appearance of the groom.

If we replace the 10 virgins with 5 pre-tribbers and 5 post-tribbers, which are the ones who were prepared to wait longer for the Bridegroom who was delayed?

This is the lesson of the 10 virgins. Be prepared for a longer than expected wait. If you think Christ comes before the Tribulation, you don't have enough oil.