MARK 2:7-11

[thepsalmist]

Mark 2

1 And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house.
2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them.
3 And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.
4 And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.
5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
6 But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.

****************************************************************************

Let us not forget that it is not by our own efforts that we are sanctified in SPIRIT AND SOUL....

Christ forgave the man above his sins - this is how we receive the new spirit, become a new creation, are reborn, and saved.

... but so you may know that this internal cleansing has occurred ...so you may know that Jesus' atonement of our sins is authentic ...

Christ caused the man above to act -
thus demonstrating the inward transformation - we bear the fruits or works of this new creation as a testimony that we have been forgiven and made new.

Of course the man had to obey Jesus when He said "arise-take up your bed, walk" ...

But please note that Jesus caused him to do it ... he did not rise up and walk by his own effort once he had received forgiveness (new spirit ) ...

He was first called ... then chosen.
He was sanctified by Christ in the spirit in the first part...
then sanctified in the soul by the second part ...

Both were accomplished by Christ ...


*To those who advance that their own works produces salvation:
It is a strange argument that advances the idea that the man would not willingly get up and walk when Christ enabled him to do so.

*Those who advance that salvation disregards works completely:
Those who continue to sin licentiously after having been forgiven may have been called but are not chosen.

These people do not wear the wedding clothes .... at the wedding God asks them- how did you get in here? Then He casts them out.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

These people do not wear the wedding clothes .... at the wedding God asks them- how did you get in here? Then He casts them out.

It is written in Revelation that the bride at the wedding feast is clothed in the righteous deeds of the holy ones (saints).

Let us rejoice and be glad and give him the glory, because the wedding celebration of the Lamb has come, and his bride has prepared herself. And it has been granted to her that she be dressed in bright, clean fine linen, for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. Revelation 19:7-8​

Righteous deeds/Righteousness
G1345 δικαίωμα dikaioma (dik-ai'-o-mah) n.
1. an equitable deed

This is the same word translated righteousness in Romans 8:4. It is the Greek word for righteous with the -ma suffix, which means effect, i.e., righteous effect (or deed).

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4​

 

[thepsalmist]

It is written in Revelation that the bride at the wedding feast is clothed in the righteous deeds of the holy ones (saints).

Let us rejoice and be glad and give him the glory, because the wedding celebration of the Lamb has come, and his bride has prepared herself. And it has been granted to her that she be dressed in bright, clean fine linen, for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. Revelation 19:7-8​

Righteous deeds/Righteousness
G1345 δικαίωμα dikaioma (dik-ai'-o-mah) n.
1. an equitable deed

This is the same word translated righteousness in Romans 8:4. It is the Greek word for righteous with the -ma suffix, which means effect, i.e., righteous effect (or deed).

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4​

When I made mention of wedding I was thinking of the parable in Matthew 22 ... but it is good to bring together like-minded scriptures ... they each seem to add to one another.

Indeed, the righteous deeds are clearly what clothe us for the feast.

Jesus told the man "you're forgiven" and then told him to "rise, stand up, take up your mat" .

If Jesus had not said "rise, stand, take up your mat" ... then the paralytic would not have been able to do so.

If he would have argued with Jesus and said - "nawww I think I'll just lay here and remain disabled- I've been forgiven, after all, that's good enough for me" then I suppose he could have

But WHO in their right mind would throw back such a gift?

The renewal of the spirit causes us to desire a renewal of the soul.

Acceptance of the first gift "forgiveness" should prompt a desire for the second gift "renewal of the soul - the act of good deeds"

If one does not feel that desire to become more righteous after they are forgiven ... then they are the called who have not been chosen.

 

[Gr8grace]

*To those who advance that their own works produces salvation:
It is a strange argument that advances the idea that the man would not willingly get up and walk when Christ enabled him to do so.

*Those who advance that salvation disregards works completely:
Those who continue to sin licentiously after having been forgiven may have been called but are not chosen.

Both of those statements in bold above have the exact same meaning. Just worded a bit different.

Salvation is a gift and not of works. The moment we believe we are saved. And at this moment all are considered equal.

The moment we are saved we can choose to advance or sit on our butts.........it becomes unequal. Because some choose to advance.

Our works and deeds (divine good) give us rank in the eternal state. Our salvation gives us the entrance to the eternal state.

Heaven is not going to be equal. Some will reign and rule with Christ, Some will be servants. It all depends on if we get off our lazy butts and advance in the Christian way of life or not.

ALL believers enter the kingdom of heaven, not all will rule with Him Though.

Salvation has absolutely nothing to do with our works, it is a gift. Our works receive reward.

And this is the kicker, and it truly does grieve my heart (because most of Christianity thinks their works play a role in their salvation.)..........If we are motivated to do these works to maintain salvation...............we are going to be servants. Those works are worthless.

 

[thepsalmist]

Actually they are meant to represent the two opposing factions (salvation by self-works & a false reality of what grace is (hyper-grace?)) - that seem to permeate this board. But maybe I expressed it in a muddy fashion

 

[Grace777x70]

It is not the "deeds" of the saints...it's the white linen that makes the saints righteous...it is always Christ's righteousness that we stand and it's the fruit of His righteousness that is manifested in our outward lives.

Jesus is the One who supplies the white linen and wedding clothes..these are symbols of His righteousness.....not our own.


Revelation 19:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

The greek word for "righteousness" above is used 10 times in the NT...here is one of them to show "whose righteousness" is involved in this word.

Romans 5:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

This greek word dikaiōma has 3 different aspects according to Vine's Dictionary of NT Words.

1) It signifies (a) "an ordinance

(b) "a sentence of acquittal," by which God acquits men of their guilt, on the conditions (1) of His grace in Christ, through His expiatory sacrifice, (2) the acceptance of Christ by faith, Rom. 5:16;

(c) "a righteous act," Rom. 5:18, "(through one) act of righteousness,"

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.

The ONLY righteous act/deed was done by Christ.

 

[Devonmcknight68]

Mark 2

1 And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house.
2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them.
3 And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.
4 And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.
5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
6 But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.

****************************************************************************

Let us not forget that it is not by our own efforts that we are sanctified in SPIRIT AND SOUL....

Christ forgave the man above his sins - this is how we receive the new spirit, become a new creation, are reborn, and saved.

... but so you may know that this internal cleansing has occurred ...so you may know that Jesus' atonement of our sins is authentic ...

Christ caused the man above to act -
thus demonstrating the inward transformation - we bear the fruits or works of this new creation as a testimony that we have been forgiven and made new.

Of course the man had to obey Jesus when He said "arise-take up your bed, walk" ...

But please note that Jesus caused him to do it ... he did not rise up and walk by his own effort once he had received forgiveness (new spirit ) ...

He was first called ... then chosen.
He was sanctified by Christ in the spirit in the first part...
then sanctified in the soul by the second part ...

Both were accomplished by Christ ...


*To those who advance that their own works produces salvation:
It is a strange argument that advances the idea that the man would not willingly get up and walk when Christ enabled him to do so.

*Those who advance that salvation disregards works completely:
Those who continue to sin licentiously after having been forgiven may have been called but are not chosen.

These people do not wear the wedding clothes .... at the wedding God asks them- how did you get in here? Then He casts them out.

good post, thank you

 

[Gr8grace]

Actually they are meant to represent the two opposing factions (salvation by self-works & a false reality of what grace is (hyper-grace?)) - that seem to permeate this board. But maybe I expressed it in a muddy fashion

Grace is hyper. Look, no one will say it because attacks will abound.

I can go out and choose to sin for the rest of my life and I will still be saved. Grace is grace and a gift is a gift.

But the majority believers don't do this, they get stuck in the WORST place.......religion.

Pride and arrogance is THE sin that God hates. And religion is pride and arrogance.

Most believers live in this their whole life, and this is what God truly hates.


It is not the question of "if someone is sinning all the time are they really saved?" It should be," If someone is living in religion all their lives are they really saved.


We can sin all we want after salvation and still be saved..............Grace.

We can live in religion all of our lives and still be saved...........Grace, in the whole scheme of things this truly shows that Gods Grace is HYPER. Not the believers who go back into sinning.

 

[Grace777x70]

*Those who advance that salvation disregards works completely:
Those who continue to sin licentiously after having been forgiven may have been called but are not chosen.

People that believe in this - " Those who continue to sin licentiously "...are not under grace no matter how much they use the word "grace"..as true grace teaches us to live godly in this present world.

True "grace believers" do not say for people to live how ever you want as that is not grace that is being taught at all.

That is not a concept that anyone here advocates and it is not to be confused with the real "grace believers".

 

[Gr8grace]

People that believe in this - " Those who continue to sin licentiously "...are not under grace no matter how much they use the word "grace"..as true grace teaches us to live godly in this present world.

True "grace believers" do not say for people to live how ever you want as that is not grace that is being taught at all.

That is not a concept that anyone here advocates and it is not to be confused with the real "grace believers".

It is going to be a miserable life for a believer if they choose to sin like hell after salvation.

But even worse, their eternal state is altered. They could have reigned with Christ, but they will forever be a content,tear free, perfectly happy shoe shiner.

And I honestly believe that those rewards will forever be on display for us......God prepared them for us but we chose not to follow His will in time.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Yeah Jesus does say to this guy

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him,
Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

 

[Grace777x70]

Yeah Jesus does say to this guy

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him,
Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Yes...sin is destructive and just plain stupid! It will cause you to die early in this life. It will cause destruction to yourself and those you love.

All sin to me is ignorance of the true life that is in us in Christ.

That's why we need to hear the gospel every day for in "it" is the power of God for salvation. Salvation means so much more then going to heaven when we die ( and that is beyond comprehension )...it also means, safe, preserved, to make whole, deliverance while we live here in this earth.

 

[thepsalmist]

People that believe in this - " Those who continue to sin licentiously "...are not under grace no matter how much they use the word "grace"..as true grace teaches us to live godly in this present world.

True "grace believers" do not say for people to live how ever you want as that is not grace that is being taught at all.

That is not a concept that anyone here advocates and it is not to be confused with the real "grace believers".

*****************

I agreed with you whole-heartedly, brother ... until you said no one advocated licentiousness in grace.

What, in fact, prompted this post was someone on here who said they lie overtly and other grace believers did the same. I felt not even the slightest twinge of shame from that writer, who goes on to say he believes he will inherit the kingdom, but due to such actions his eternal position may be diminished.

The devil is the father of the lie ...

The Bible says in REV 21:8
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whore mongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Liars here are placed in the same category as unbelievers.

 

[Grace777x70]

*****************

I agreed with you whole-heartedly, brother ... until you said no one advocated licentiousness in grace.

What, in fact, prompted this post was someone on here who said they lie overtly and other grace believers did the same. I felt not even the slightest twinge of shame from that writer, who goes on to say he believes he will inherit the kingdom, but due to such actions his eternal position may be diminished.

The devil is the father of the lie ...

The Bible says in REV 21:8
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whore mongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Liars here are placed in the same category as unbelievers.

My post was to show that people that say " grace means that I can sin all I want " ...they are in fact not living from grace..as grace teaches us to live godly in this present world and the fact that sin shall not have dominion over us.

- licentiousness and grace have nothing to do with each other. Jude1:4 says that grace is "replaced" by licentiousness by some and in fact deny the Lord Jesus Christ.

I think we are saying the same thing.....

Perhaps I am missing what you are saying as I didn't see the quote you gave here below when it was said by who ever the person was that said it......

"What, in fact, prompted this post was someone on here who said they lie overtly and other grace believers did the same"

 

[thepsalmist]

My post was to show that people that say " grace means that I can sin all I want " ...they are in fact not living from grace..as grace teaches us to live godly in this present world and the fact that sin shall not have dominion over us.

- licentiousness and grace have nothing to do with each other. Jude1:4 says that grace is "replaced" by licentiousness by some and in fact deny the Lord Jesus Christ.

I think we are saying the same thing.....

Perhaps I am missing what you are saying as I didn't see the quote you gave here below when it was said by who ever the person was that said it......

"What, in fact, prompted this post was someone on here who said they lie overtly and other grace believers did the same"

We do agree

But there ARE some here who DO advance that belief in Christ and His grace can be used as a free-pass to sin ...

I wrote this thread for those (members and guests) who erroneously believe such things. Let's not take for granted that some DO think this way. It's an important point that should be made frequently.

 

[Grace777x70]

We do agree

But there ARE some here who DO advance that belief in Christ and His grace can be used as a free-pass to sin ...

I wrote this thread for those (members and guests) who erroneously believe such things. Let's not take for granted that some DO think this way. It's an important point that should be made frequently.

WOW..a free pass to sin?..that's crazy...sin is destructive and will destroy us and those we love...Sinning is just plain stupid!.....I haven't seen anyone say grace is a free pass to sin yet...strange and so wrong...grace does the exact opposite...

 

[FreeNChrist]

We do agree

But there ARE some here who DO advance that belief in Christ and His grace can be used as a free-pass to sin ...

........Who??

Or should I say who other than those who are always saying that being a grace believer means that??