1Cor. 12, Romans12, Ephesians 4..

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Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead I've already done and do Acts 16:31. Now it's your turn. What's your group's name/website?

Gnostics forever.:p

We don't have a group or a website. We have a small local assembly in Missoula Mt.


What are you afraid of? Just do and believe Acts 16:31. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Isn't that from the apostle Paul and isn't the head of him the Lord Jesus Christ?..isn't the website www.theScriptures.com?.... I have heard of these before somewhere ...I'm sure of it.....:cool:
 
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Back to the OP. Yet, I was not certain of the reason for asking if we had those chapters in our bibles, but later posts indicated that you were using these to prove that Pastors should not receive payment from their congregations. I found nothing in the first two chapters at all about payment and the only thing in Ephesians tells us not to be greedy. Ephesians 4:19-22 and 28 (19 Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, and they are full of greed.20 That, however, is not the way of life you learned21 when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus.22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds;24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.) and (28 Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.) You may feel that 28 backs up your claim, but it only says to do something to earn the money, which pastors do and most of them definitely earn it, and it is not all preaching and teaching.
 
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Back to the OP. Yet, I was not certain of the reason for asking if we had those chapters in our bibles, but later posts indicated that you were using these to prove that Pastors should not receive payment from their congregations. I found nothing in the first two chapters at all about payment and the only thing in Ephesians tells us not to be greedy. Ephesians 4:19-22 and 28 (19 Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, and they are full of greed.20 That, however, is not the way of life you learned21 when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus.22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds;24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.) and (28 Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.) You may feel that 28 backs up your claim, but it only says to do something to earn the money, which pastors do and most of them definitely earn it, and it is not all preaching and teaching.

There are verses that tells the elders not to serve for filthy lucre, 1Peter 5:2.

But a more damning scripture agsinst elders being paid is in Acts 20:33-35
 
In darkness is not saved. Paul says they only call themself a brother, don't even eat with them. Grace is that an atheist in big sin can get saved just before he dies because he really converts, not that without conversion you go to heaven if you keep on doing that.
If they are false teachers who treat people as merchandise then yes, their part is the lake of fire. Yet doesn't throw them in there. He warns them. I don't agree with the getting a salary for the hard labour they do. That's Biblical. Think Yet goes too far, maybe because of the pastors with swimming pools and huge houses and private jets and tons of income, taking tithes from the widows in their church. There's other leaders that warn those pastors and pray for them. One famous Ugandan preacher, Jesus told him he wouldn't go to heaven because he undressed women on the podium with his eyes. Lot of people got saved in his church, big ministry. He repented and got set free from that lust demon. That's real grace. It leads to repentance.

Hello Coby. Please forgive me, but others are doing that. Saying, Yet is twisting scripture or Yet is teaching falsehood, but they never tell me where I'm messing up. So you seem like an intelligent person. Tell me where you think I'm 'going to far'. Thanks.
 
Hello Coby. Please forgive me, but others are doing that. Saying, Yet is twisting scripture or Yet is teaching falsehood, but they never tell me where I'm messing up. So you seem like an intelligent person. Tell me where you think I'm 'going to far'. Thanks.

That pastors go to hell if they get a salary, but maybe you didn't even write that. There's texts that the labourer is worth his loan and about that oxen. The apostles stopped fishing. Just what you see in the States is that they make merchandise from it, but that's the big names. There are also pastors there who get nothing or almost nothing. It's two extremes. Asking the poor to pay for your swimming pool, but in Holland it's the opposite. Rich people in church buying a new kitchen and going on luxurous holidays who don't give a cent and let the pastor drive a borrowed bike from someone else and go to the food bank.
 
Hey Persuaded. So you went to your bible study. Did you teach these scriptures to the folks so they could start using their spiritual functions in the open participatory meeting and be fulfilled in their ministries like you get to all these years? I didn't think so. They are being cheated, and your the one holding out on them, eh?
 
That pastors go to hell if they get a salary, but maybe you didn't even write that. There's texts that the labourer is worth his loan and about that oxen. The apostles stopped fishing. Just what you see in the States is that they make merchandise from it, but that's the big names. There are also pastors there who get nothing or almost nothing. It's two extremes. Asking the poor to pay for your swimming pool, but in Holland it's the opposite. Rich people in church buying a new kitchen and going on luxurous holidays who don't give a cent and let the pastor drive a borrowed bike from someone else and go to the food bank.[/QUOTE

Please look up Acts 20. More than just ONE SPECIAL PASTOR. And they all worked jobs. Why can't you see that. The deep dark blindness of the saints is horrific.

Itenerent. Itenerent. Itenerent. Itenerent. Itenerent. Itenerent. Itenerent preachers deserve support. You're never going to see it. Not in a million years. So why do I try? Good question.
 
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Nonsense. God is not mocked. He who hates his brother is in darkness. There was one preacher then who said Hitler and Mussolini would soon be in hell. Murderers don't inherit the Kingdom. A christian murderer does not exist. That's not a christian.
Oh no I forgot, Paul killed Peter and Jesus said: Hey no problem m8! I was hungry and you gave me no food, but you believed in Me, so you I see as holy. God isn't blind or something. He sees us as holy even if we keep on sinning. Sure.
He saw them all as perfect because they believed in Revelations:

Nevertheless I have*this*against you, that you have left your first love.5*Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.

Guess king David, And Paul will not be in heaven then
:(
 
I've already done and do Acts 16:31. Now it's your turn. What's your group's name/website?

Why do you keep doing it, Did the author tell you to keep doing it, Or say just do it, and you will get what he said you will get.
 
There are verses that tells the elders not to serve for filthy lucre, 1Peter 5:2.

But a more damning scripture agsinst elders being paid is in Acts 20:33-35

So an elder who does ministry 24/7 is not worth his pay.

You have serious issues my friend All so you can ignore the scripture about assembling together, which you were strickly wanred by God not to do.
 
Hey Persuaded. So you went to your bible study. Did you teach these scriptures to the folks so they could start using their spiritual functions in the open participatory meeting and be fulfilled in their ministries like you get to all these years? I didn't think so. They are being cheated, and your the one holding out on them, eh?

smh - who is this guy? I mean seriously.

You have alot of hate in you yet, You need to repent, and stop this stuff.. You have no idea what that person did in his ministry.
 
That pastors go to hell if they get a salary, but maybe you didn't even write that. There's texts that the labourer is worth his loan and about that oxen. The apostles stopped fishing. Just what you see in the States is that they make merchandise from it, but that's the big names. There are also pastors there who get nothing or almost nothing. It's two extremes. Asking the poor to pay for your swimming pool, but in Holland it's the opposite. Rich people in church buying a new kitchen and going on luxurous holidays who don't give a cent and let the pastor drive a borrowed bike from someone else and go to the food bank.[/QUOTE

Please look up Acts 20. More than just ONE SPECIAL PASTOR. And they all worked jobs. Why can't you see that. The deep dark blindness of the saints is horrific.

Itenerent. Itenerent. Itenerent. Itenerent. Itenerent. Itenerent. Itenerent preachers deserve support. You're never going to see it. Not in a million years. So why do I try? Good question.

What is itenerent?
He has a job now and church activities are less, because the kids are older, but it's no use to explain all that. What if there are no elders and it's just a tiny home chuch.
Peter didn't fish anymore. If pastors, elders whatever have to work 60 hours a week the people shouldn't complain that they get no food or counselling. Only the ones that are old and worked all their life can do it all for free or if they have no kids and the wife works full time.
 
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That pastors go to hell if they get a salary, but maybe you didn't even write that. There's texts that the labourer is worth his loan and about that oxen. The apostles stopped fishing. Just what you see in the States is that they make merchandise from it, but that's the big names. There are also pastors there who get nothing or almost nothing. It's two extremes. Asking the poor to pay for your swimming pool, but in Holland it's the opposite. Rich people in church buying a new kitchen and going on luxurous holidays who don't give a cent and let the pastor drive a borrowed bike from someone else and go to the food bank.[/QUOTE

Please look up Acts 20. More than just ONE SPECIAL PASTOR. And they all worked jobs. Why can't you see that. The deep dark blindness of the saints is horrific.

Itenerent. Itenerent. Itenerent. Itenerent. Itenerent. Itenerent. Itenerent preachers deserve support. You're never going to see it. Not in a million years. So why do I try? Good question.

itenerent is travelling. Lol yeah we had that. My ex didn't get a cent but the guy that came speaking wanted to have the offering and more. That's why we didn't invite 'em much. Way too expensive. Corrie ten Boom never asked money.
 
David Wagner is a good itenerant preacher. He paid his own plane ticket when he came to Holland and asked nothing and the offering was for the poor in Birma or something. Cheaper building rented, which was too small, otherwise it was unfair towards the poor.
 
I also learned that the portions assigned to the Levites had not been given to them, and that all the Levites and musicians responsible for the service had gone back to their own fields.
 
Bro. Wagner was serious about the word and his faith. I love him already. Sounds like Paul.

Problem is if you come teaching freely on this and the beauty of the 'true' assembly of saints, you'll never get in anywhere to share it. Sad. So the saints continue to go without quietly and not even aware of it. A few suspect something is wrong. But the majority have no clue.
Someone said the fault lies with the sheep. I'm inclined to agree. Enablers. They don't study the word for themselves.

But I'll confess something. I was totally blinded to the truths in these chapters for a couple of decades. How can that be? I think it's because a person wants to believe in the 'one pastor' deal and tithing, don't question it. They are aghast to even think that the 'church' they support could be way out in left field, light years from God's plan and purpose for the ecclesia as a functioning body and Him at the helm. So Satan, the deceiver wins..all the way to the bank!

The NT method of assembly is such a foreign concept to the average dumb downed Christian. And I was just as dumbed down as anyone. A faithful tithing quiet pew sitter. Scary. I'm ashamed that I did not study and pray about it more diligently a whole lot sooner. Could have saved a lot of heartache, not to mention thousands of untold dollars while my family suffered financially.