Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version

[Angela53510]

I don't think closing the thread will do much good. Another one with the same subject - new header - will just replace it.

Can't blame the thread.

The problem is more about interaction skills and mutual respect

No, the problem is the thread. Again, I challenge you to go back to page 44 and read my post # 867.

I discuss the OP, which is what we are actually supposed to be discussing.

I have bolded the times PeterJens made slanderous, unsubstantiated statements. NINETEEN times! In ONE OP!

That really set the tone for the rest of this thread. If we want to discuss the topic of Obedience and Righteousness, we need to close this thread, and start one that deals with the topic.

In other words, post Scriptures, especially passages that support the viewpoint that we need to be obedient. Of course, that could still degrade, but since I don't know anyone who disagrees that anyone should be obedient to Christ, maybe it won't??

The central premise of this thread is slanderous. It is that "they say" blah, blah blah..... NINETEEEN times!

Time to call a spade a spade, and shut down this thread, which was slanderous from post #1.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

No, the problem is the thread. Again, I challenge you to go back to page 44 and read my post # 867.

I discuss the OP, which is what we are actually supposed to be discussing.

I have bolded the times PeterJens made slanderous, unsubstantiated statements. NINETEEN times! In ONE OP!

That really set the tone for the rest of this thread. If we want to discuss the topic of Obedience and Righteousness, we need to close this thread, and start one that deals with the topic.

In other words, post Scriptures, especially passages that support the viewpoint that we need to be obedient. Of course, that could still degrade, but since I don't know anyone who disagrees that anyone should be obedient to Christ, maybe it won't??

The central premise of this thread is slanderous. It is that "they say" blah, blah blah..... NINETEEEN times!

Time to call a spade a spade, and shut down this thread, which was slanderous from post #1.

I completely agree with your assessment of this thread as being "slanderous" and worthy of being shut down from post #1.

However, bear in mind, this thread was started based on interactions in previous threads (some which are now closed, some which remain open).

I do not think that this knowledge justifies this thread (or the OP)--but it might help shed some light onto those who are attempting to sort this mess.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, the problem is the thread. Again, I challenge you to go back to page 44 and read my post # 867.

I discuss the OP, which is what we are actually supposed to be discussing.

I have bolded the times PeterJens made slanderous, unsubstantiated statements. NINETEEN times! In ONE OP!

That really set the tone for the rest of this thread. If we want to discuss the topic of Obedience and Righteousness, we need to close this thread, and start one that deals with the topic.

In other words, post Scriptures, especially passages that support the viewpoint that we need to be obedient. Of course, that could still degrade, but since I don't know anyone who disagrees that anyone should be obedient to Christ, maybe it won't??

The central premise of this thread is slanderous. It is that "they say" blah, blah blah..... NINETEEEN times!

Time to call a spade a spade, and shut down this thread, which was slanderous from post #1.

thats why i tried not to respond hoping iy would die, but since it did not, i too showed the salnderous lies the op oppened with, and now i am at fault

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes, thank you Magenta ... that's what it says in verse 8 ... but what does peter mean in verse ten about making our calling and election sure? If our calling and election are sure in Christ's blood then why does Peter seem to add to it here?

The word "diligence" means " to make haste" " be eager".. and it is the exact same Greek word for Let us "labor" to enter into His rest in Heb 4:11..if that helps any...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Holy Spirit led me to that verse ... and I was kind of wondering myself what Peter meant, exactly ... and was hoping maybe someone would touch on that point. I was bringing it to the table for examination.

forgive me then, i answered you in haste and sinned against you, i am sorry

 

[nu2see]

Ironic, considering we JUST discussed how I do not put anyone on ignore nor do I recommend it.

I love you EG.
You're too pissed off to see it right now.

...but I do.

Since I just lost all your respect: Pretend someone you highly respect just told you to "take a break" from CC for an hour or so and go get some fresh air. Then, come back and revisit this thread -- read it through a fresh lens.

Hi, PW.
The overuse, actually abuse, of the ignore button,
as well as 'reporting' other christians,
Especially behind their backs,
is one of the most blatantly UN-Christian
things a professing christian can do.

I don't care what side of a debate we're on,
we should do everything in our power,
moreover, the power of the Spirit,
and through prayer if that's what it takes,
to forgive and reconcile.

(and I'm not saying 'IMHO'),
I'm saying whoever does this, except for danger
or an absolute last resort, is WRONG.

I'm guessing there's ppl on this site
that maybe have me on ignore, (really?),
yet haven't taken any time to talk me
as a decent human being, or pm back and forth,
however long it might take
to come to an understanding,

or try to reason with me,
if they perceive I've offended somehow,
yet, may even boast of their own 'christianity'.

And pls don't try using scriptures from the
first disciples 2000 years ago as a way to
justify acting like little 3rd grade schoolgirls
on facebook going, 'Nah,Nah, I'm ignoring you',
and conspiring with others to do the same,
and threatening to 'un-friend you'
and 'report you to the principal'.

No...sorry, 'Brothers and Sisters', ...
only if you've tried everything first,
WITH THE LOVE OF GOD,
THEN, walk away from the persons posts for a bit,
(no one's forcing anyone to read, or continue a fight.)

Try saying, 'Okay, you know my position,
my pm is open if you want to talk later,
but for now, I'm taking a break,

because our God and Saviour probably would
want us at peace for now, and I'm sure we can
talk again if we take a day off, BROTHER', ...

and go have some ice cream,
or tell a joke in the pants thread,
or how about read John17 and pray about it,
but knock off this childish 'ignore' nonsense.

Let unbelievers treat each other like that, .....
not those who proclaim forgiveness in Christ.

I cannot list all of your lies and your insults, but here above is your latest combination of both..

Saying I have my own gospel is not only a lie o yours, it is a most hurtful insult to one who is indebted toatlly to Jesus christ for bringing the only Gospel there is to mankind, His Gospel.

This remark is tantamount to saying I do not love and depend totally on Jesus Christ.

Hi, JaumeJ.
I'm asking sincerely, not to be contentious,
but can you lay out the gospel as you see it?
If you feel you've done that, I'd be happy to
get a pm, I just don't know if I can re-read
through this whole thread again, and I'd just
like to know a little more clearly your view. Thx.

Oops.. good eye!

This song has been on my mind since this thread began last week.

I wonder what it means, "...Grace that taught my heart to fear"

... I need a refresher on "fearing" God.

Hey, again, PW!
I think it's referring to the fact that
even the knowledge of the awesome power
of our Creator, and how weak we are in
His presence, which can be a fearful thing,
is credited to God's grace,

because we would never really come
to that point on our own,
which, thank God we do,
and as the next line reveals that
the same grace which had us
weak on our knees,

is also the same grace of God that brings salvation
and relieves our fear of sins penalty, God's wrath, etc.
IMHO.

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes, thank you Magenta ... that's what it says in verse 8 ... but what does peter mean in verse ten about making our calling and election sure? If our calling and election are sure in Christ's blood then why does Peter seem to add to it here?

The reason one is unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ is that they forgot that their sins were purged by the blood of our Lord. verse 9 - 2Per 1:9..

.it pays rich dividends to know what Christ has already done for us and then we walk in faith of that...the righteous shall live by faith.

 

[Gr8grace]

Let's try this again

Can anyone share with me what they think Peter is saying here ... Honestly it confuses me.

2Peter
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

This is about our mental attitude in our standing with Christ. It is not about "testing" to see if we are really saved or not.

Give due diligence to your SURE calling and election........live in it,Don't doubt it. You are saved, now live in it. Move on to maturity.

Live in the sureness and the complete dependability of your standing in Christ. You are a part of His body and in union with Him. Nothing can separate us from Him.

If we don't live in our eternal security in Christ..............we go nowhere in the Christian way of life. We will forever be "stuck" on salvation.

If we don't live in the sureness of our election..........our spiritual life fails time and time again.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

i was responding to pw, who asked you to post what hew said to me, since i have him on ignore, i even said to pw..

i mean really now look at your post, i said to pw, you asked where you said somthing i was not responding to you

I mistook you for responding to me is all. My sincerest appologies, I would think the P abreviation verses the full name adress, would make that an easy thing to overlook.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Hi, PW.
The overuse, actually abuse, of the ignore button,
as well as 'reporting' other christians,
Especially behind their backs,
is one of the most blatantly UN-Christian
things a professing christian can do.

I don't care what side of a debate we're on,
we should do everything in our power,
moreover, the power of the Spirit,
and through prayer if that's what it takes,
to forgive and reconcile.

(and I'm not saying 'IMHO'),
I'm saying whoever does this, except for danger
or an absolute last resort, is WRONG.

I'm guessing there's ppl on this site
that maybe have me on ignore, (really?),
yet haven't taken any time to talk me
as a decent human being, or pm back and forth,
however long it might take
to come to an understanding,

or try to reason with me,
if they perceive I've offended somehow,
yet, may even boast of their own 'christianity'.

And pls don't try using scriptures from the
first disciples 2000 years ago as a way to
justify acting like little 3rd grade schoolgirls
on facebook going, 'Nah,Nah, I'm ignoring you',
and conspiring with others to do the same,
and threatening to 'un-friend you'
and 'report you to the principal'.

No...sorry, 'Brothers and Sisters', ...
only if you've tried everything first,
WITH THE LOVE OF GOD,
THEN, walk away from the persons posts for a bit,
(no one's forcing anyone to read, or continue a fight.)

Try saying, 'Okay, you know my position,
my pm is open if you want to talk later,
but for now, I'm taking a break,

because our God and Saviour probably would
want us at peace for now, and I'm sure we can
talk again if we take a day off, BROTHER', ...

and go have some ice cream,
or tell a joke in the pants thread,
or how about read John17 and pray about it,
but knock off this childish 'ignore' nonsense.

Let unbelievers treat each other like that, .....
not those who proclaim forgiveness in Christ.

Hi, JaumeJ.
I'm asking sincerely, not to be contentious,
but can you lay out the gospel as you see it?
If you feel you've done that, I'd be happy to
get a pm, I just don't know if I can re-read
through this whole thread again, and I'd just
like to know a little more clearly your view. Thx.


Hey, again, PW!
I think it's referring to the fact that
even the knowledge of the awesome power
of our Creator, and how weak we are in
His presence, which can be a fearful thing,
is credited to God's grace,

because we would never really come
to that point on our own,
which, thank God we do,
and as the next line reveals that
the same grace which had us
weak on our knees,

is also the same grace of God that brings salvation
and relieves our fear of sins penalty, God's wrath, etc.
IMHO.

Amen! Be blessed and bless others!

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I completely agree with your assessment of this thread as being "slanderous" and worthy of being shut down from post #1.

However, bear in mind, this thread was started based on interactions in previous threads (some which are now closed, some which remain open).

I do not think that this knowledge justifies this thread (or the OP)--but it might help shed some light onto those who are attempting to sort this mess.

Reference (links to an earlier thread):

Motion to close thread.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is about our mental attitude in our standing with Christ. It is not about "testing" to see if we are really saved or not.

Give due diligence to your SURE calling and election........live in it,Don't doubt it. You are saved, now live in it. Move on to maturity.

Live in the sureness and the complete dependability of your standing in Christ. You are a part of His body and in union with Him. Nothing can separate us from Him.

If we don't live in our eternal security in Christ..............we go nowhere in the Christian way of life. We will forever be "stuck" on salvation.

If we don't live in the sureness of our election..........our spiritual life fails time and time again.

ok this makes sense i need to study the passage more! thanks alot..lol

 

[slave]

In laymen's terms. What do you mean by the second quote?

Anything outside of faith is SIN. Sin is not the death sentence of sins yet, but by nature of Sin having rule over our human nature save Jesus Christ on the Cross, sins will event themselves inherently, and sins have a death sentence. For sin is "the being and power" of sins. It is Satan's death entity. And we cannot win against Satan in a debate over rightness because God has no interest in fighting Satan twice, nor can we be right outside of Christ. He has already won, both victory over Sin and to bring us back to non-pretentious life bearing relationship with Himself..

So, for man to stay victorious in his own outcome he must remain in the victory God has supplied and secured already. The only needed battle and victory God needed to offer -- Jesus Christ on a Cross, and in the Redemption; our platform for continued victory over sin is stabilized. Victory is always guaranteed for it is finished in things already accomplished in Christ, and in that disposition, we are required to claim it, but by our will we can chose to step out of that victorious position, by not claiming it, and although God grants forgiveness to remain in it, if we do not return wholeheartedly thru confessions of sin to claim it, Satan has not lost his power.

Sin is Gods responsibility to solve in us for we cannot solve it ourselves, and He has not solved it by destroying Satan, but in giving victory to us resoundingly thru Christ Jesus instead -- victory over Satan.. "If you remain in Me and My Words remain in you." He's done all the work save one, our wills allegiance, to the Christ He has empowered that has solved our problems, but there are no other options, and we must remain in that place. We must understand what Sin is, and what we are as Christ-like vs. individually Christ oriented.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I mistook you for responding to me is all. My sincerest appologies, I would think the P abreviation verses the full name adress, would make that an easy thing to overlook.

your fine sis. forgive me also

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

your fine sis. forgive me also

Not a problem Bro God bless you

 

[PeterJens]

Slander - spreading something that is false about another person.

Now as far as my conscience is concerned I have not slandered anyone. I am told constantly what I believe and how it fails, but I ignore that, because it is a question of perspective. I am also told I am lying about various theological positions, but what I am sharing is how they come across to me. Now ofcourse I could has miss-understood, but in life I can only share how things appear.

What makes it more confusing is different people have their own takes on ideas, which may or may not agree with that particular set of ideas. Now there is literally no point saying, you are lying. It is better to say, I take this to mean this and not that.

For some I am a horrible evil person, unsaved, a work of satan. That does make me laugh, because this language is so primitive and stupid. I would say to you, is this the best you can do?

My arguments are simple. A lot of people use idealistic language with little reference points so it is not provable or testable, it is just an opinion. That is fine, but it might not help.

I for one have grown and been blessed. But that seriously annoys a lot of you, because for whatever reason you feel you have got is sussed, and I am just wrong.

 

[Grace777x70]

Let's try this again

Can anyone share with me what they think Peter is saying here ... Honestly it confuses me.

2Peter
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Another note is that in verse 10 the Greek word "sure" means "to be stable" and "steadfast"...seems to me that we should be diligent or "make haste" to be secure it the calling and election He has called us in. This knowledge makes us secure in Him and the things of the kingdom of God will be manifested in our lives..

Those not living in the true knowledge of our Lord and not growing in Him will have unstable lives.

 

[Gr8grace]

Anything outside of faith is SIN. Sin is not the death sentence of sins yet, but by nature of Sin having rule over our human nature save Jesus Christ on the Cross, sins will event themselves inherently, and sins have a death sentence. For sin is "the being and power" of sins. It is Satan's death entity. And we cannot win against Satan in a debate over rightness because God has no interest in fighting Satan twice, nor can we be right outside of Christ. He has already won, both victory over Sin and to bring us back to non-pretentious life bearing relationship with Himself..

So, for man to stay victorious in his own outcome he must remain in the victory God has supplied and secured already. The only needed battle and victory God needed to offer -- Jesus Christ on a Cross, and in the Redemption; our platform for continued victory over sin is stabilized. Victory is always guaranteed for it is finished in things already accomplished in Christ, and in that disposition, we are required to claim it, but by our will we can chose to step out of that victorious position, by not claiming it, and although God grants forgiveness to remain in it, if we do not return wholeheartedly thru confessions of sin to claim it, Satan has not lost his power.

Sin is Gods responsibility to solve in us for we cannot solve it ourselves, and He has not solved it by destroying Satan, but in giving victory to us resoundingly thru Christ Jesus instead -- victory over Satan.. "If you remain in Me and My Words remain in you." He's done all the work save one, our wills allegiance, to the Christ He has empowered that has solved our problems, but there are no other options, and we must remain in that place. We must understand what Sin is, and what we are as Christ-like vs. individually Christ oriented.

So basically we can lose salvation? That is how I read it.

 

[PeterJens]

One contributors perspective on perfection in Christ

There view is that we are totally changed and become a new person of which nothing of the old remains, it is burnt away.

This is another gnostic type view which is saying everything that is part of us is evil, and everything needs to be replaced.
The word redeemed is not in their vocabulary.

I would say this is extreme, because we are individuals, with a personality that remains. Jesus has come to purchase us, not take out the soul and implant an alien who takes over.

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”
Gal 3:13

For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.
1 Peter 1:18-19

Being redeemed is very different from being replaced. Some people have taken the idea of self loathing to the extreme where they do not even accept those things that Jesus calls precious in us.

It also makes sense if everything you are is worthy of loathing and to be replaced, then how can you love others who are likewise contaminated and worthy of rejection. It is therefore no surprise that people cannot understand Jesus calls us precious, worthy of dying for, even when we were still sinners, to produce us as Gods people, redeemed from the world.

But can you embrace this.

 

[PeterJens]

How big a heart have you got?

Can you love Hitler, Genghis Khan, Stalin, the insane prison guard who murders people because of the insane hatred that is in his heart? Can you see these people are victims of who they are, slaves to their sin and denials, fighting shadows and enemies they suppose are there, but are actually invented?

They are lost, slowly dying but without hope, trying to make a difference or being big men, when they are a testimony to the lostness of people.

Can you love your neighbour, your friend, your work colleague who is slowly slipping into depression and relationship breakdown? Can you understand me, walking after Christ, just listening to His words and following, with a clean heart and good spirit, filled with Gods Holy Spirit anointed to praise His Holy name?

Why would I not be your brother? Or is this just too difficult. Because if it is too difficult, before the Lord you have issues. Because this is the love God calls us to have. If you think this is condemnation, you have not understood love itself, which also means you have not understood the King.

I am not saying I am perfect, I am just saying we are following together with Jesus. So let us rejoice in this walk together, because into eternity we walk as His people, Amen and Hallelujah.