Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version

[Grace777x70]

well let's do it then...been wanting to and suggesting the same from months back

I understand it can be difficult to bypass the obvious deliberate goading on...and that is the goal...the remarks are so over the top by these two especially, that really, you have to be simple not to know that is the trick being used to hook a response

I'm all for simply ignoring whatever they post

if you want different results...ie threads without the name calling and slander that certain members excel at, then you have to put a different response out

that response is just let 'em ramble...perhaps they will have a go at each other LOL!

I only posted back in here last night because of the over the top nastiness aimed at Angela and as you posted some pages back, I have certainly had my turn at the ugliness directed towards me by jens...and that was after I had been away for almost 2 months...a period in which I had to place my mother in an assisted living facility and a few other energy sucking things I had to deal with

I came back and about the first thing was jens saying personal and non-true things about me including that God had told him to go after me! Now seriously...is that even rational?

there is no hit to worry about...although I know what you mean...the Bible says that an undeserved curse does not come to rest....I have even seen posts wherein jens has posted something from the OT directly under a post from another person with the sense that he is telling them they are going to hell

if we all ignore this individual and the ever present herose, we will be doing ourselves and others the greatest favor and in the end maybe even a favor to them as well

I can only be responsible for myself and each of us the same

I would like to start threads on different subjects from time to time and I don't because I know these two will take them over

consider them speedbumps ...not a place to park

I agree..they are just "baiting " us.....if we simply ignore them and don't interact with them....we can carry on with respectful and growth building exchanges with all those that are willing and open.......when we post scripture and teaching places for people to go and see for themselves what is being said that refute their slander and malice...we are in effect preaching the gospel...nothing can stop the gospel of the grace of Christ from going forth!

We want there to be restoration with them too when repentance is seen in them so that should be one of our goals.

Hopefully this solution will be edifying to the rest of the body of Christ that come here.....

 

[seed_time_harvest]

He'd really hate for someone to take the time and go through all of his posts and dig them out. He'd end up looking like a monster.

Of course, none of us are guiltless. We all say similar regrettable things in the heat of debate. At least we admit it, while HeRose claims he has never done that.

Do it chicken. One at a time. I'm not afraid of you people.

Let all things be done decently and in order. 1 Corinthians 14:40​

Astonishing

 

[Grace777x70]

Are you answering my question by providing me with a hypothetical question?

I checked out what Paul Ellis has to say on the topic: Did Jesus Put Price tags on Forgiveness? (Matthew 6:14-15) – Escape to Reality

Allow me to highlight a couple points Ellis made:

1. "I’m going to give you three interpretations, and then you can choose."
2. "Did Jesus put price tags on forgiveness? In this passage, he does! But on the cross he paid that price on our behalf."

So Ellis presented three argument for the verse(s) in question, and left it up to the reader to decide. Ellis's personal stance is given in #2 above--and shows that Christ payed the price.

So, again -- Why do you call escapetoreality.org a "false-grace" website?

I liked what he said in this part of the article...made sense to me in light of the New Covenant and in Jesus' finished work.

3. It’s both, for Jesus speaks to all of us at our point of need


What you look through determines what you see. If you are trusting in your own performance, you will read Jesus’ words as law. “I must work to earn God’s forgiveness.”

You cannot succeed! When life hurts you this law will condemn you as a law-breaker in need of grace, and the sooner that happens the better.

However, if you are trusting in Christ’s righteousness, you will read his words as an exhortation to walk in grace.

You want more grace? Then give from the abundant supply he has given to you. Let no bitter root grow that causes you to fall short of grace (Heb 12:15).

Jesus spoke words the whole world needs to hear. The genius of Jesus was that he could speak to crowds of people and meet everyone – the self-righteous and the hungry – at their point of need.

It’s a mistake to dismiss the words of Jesus as irrelevant or old covenant or pre-cross.

If it’s in the Bible it’s useful for training in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16). The words of Jesus either reveal the self-righteousness that leads to death or the Christ-righteousness that causes you to reign in life!

The followers of Jesus still know that he has the words of eternal life!

 

[Gr8grace]

Peters message is salvation. the only thing I personally would add to what peter said, is all things are for and in, and because of, Jesus. to listen to what He is saying in the op, will bring salvation to anyone who focuses on what He said and not how we perceive it was said. sometimes a message is so true and good, we look between the lines, because something in us, wants to find a reason not to listen to the good message. to say obey, seems harsh to a man. thats why we lay ourselves down, the part of us that doesn't want to accept that Jesus is our teacher also, teaching us the will of God. we follow, but it truly is all by Grace the death and resurrection of Jesus is the key to salvation. Obedience to Christ is the order of the kingdom of God. forgiveness is a law in Christ, so we know we aren't dead when we fail in trying to follow and anyone whop sets their goal on Jesus, will fail at times, not condemnation, but repent and learn from it is the way.. as we follow Him, we change by Grace. it works.


Our goal is only what Jesus is saying to us, no matter how much we want to follow our own self, its all about denying me, and following Him, his ways. this heals the inner man and conforms or changes His thinking to Gods will for our thinking. deceived through believing and then following the serpents words, redeemed through believing and then following Christs words. Jesus is the only way, so how does Jesus say this situation should be handled is the thought of a disciple

Go back and read the OP. Now quote me the part that is salvation,please.


The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not in the OP, and an unbeliever would be even more confused by reading it.

In fact, if I were an unbeliever...........I would want to stay an unbeliever if that was true Christianity.

 

[Gr8grace]

Obviously you have not been reading the posts, not even the ones to which you reply.

The problem is that we ARE reading your posts. I come to the same conclusion as EG,Budman and others.

You say "grace alone" then go onto explain in ambiguity that its not Grace alone.

Can we lose salvation? You won't directly answer. But you indirectly answer YES by your explanations.


If I am wrong, please be more direct and straight forward.

If we believe that we can lose salvation......there is NO WAY around the fact that we are trying to be saved by our obedience,deeds,fruits,works.....

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Are you answering my question by providing me with a hypothetical question?

I checked out what Paul Ellis has to say on the topic: Did Jesus Put Price tags on Forgiveness? (Matthew 6:14-15) – Escape to Reality

Allow me to highlight a couple points Ellis made:

1. "I’m going to give you three interpretations, and then you can choose."
2. "Did Jesus put price tags on forgiveness? In this passage, he does! But on the cross he paid that price on our behalf."

So Ellis presented three argument for the verse(s) in question, and left it up to the reader to decide. Ellis's personal stance is given in #2 above--and shows that Christ payed the price.

So, again -- Why do you call escapetoreality.org a "false-grace" website?

Because he teaches the same things as the other false-grace teachers do. They may deviate on a point here and there, but they are basically all the same. You will find little difference between what Ellis teaches and what Andrew Farley teaches, who I know teaches the lord's prayer is an old covenant prayer.

What do you think about the lie they teach that 1 John 1:9 is not directed towards all believers?

 

[thepsalmist]

John 12

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

Just bringing it to the table for examination ...

 

[ember]

I agree..they are just "baiting " us.....if we simply ignore them and don't interact with them....we can carry on with respectful and growth building exchanges with all those that are willing and open.......when we post scripture and teaching places for people to go and see for themselves what is being said that refute their slander and malice...we are in effect preaching the gospel...nothing can stop the gospel of the grace of Christ from going forth!

We want there to be restoration with them too when repentance is seen in them so that should be one of our goals.

Hopefully this solution will be edifying to the rest of the body of Christ that come here.....

well good then...yes!

I love Bible studies...not saying this is the best platform for one for obvious reasons...but an edifying, uplifting and encouraging discussion would be like an oasis in the desert!

I truly hope some of us can manage to keep our eyes ahead...have put those who constantly attack and argue and twist on ignore...so concrete wise, I'm set LOL!

anyway, been thinking of some good topics to discuss...I'm often online quite a bit workwise, so being on here is not a challenge...I've really been disappointed in the flavor of many of the threads lately...seems the sensational ones, where a knee jerk reaction is the norm, are taking over

I have been on other forums where a more respectful discussion is not only expected but encouraged....improvement is the goal I guess since each person can only decide how they want to go forward

anyway, back to work...hoping we really can all ignore the invitations to argue

what I particularly like about CC, is that there are many active members on board so things move along...

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a complete thread that talks about 1 John 1:9 for those wanting to see what is being said....it's been hashed over a multiple of times......people are free to decide on their own things...I know for me..this was a hard one at first because of my religious teachings...but the Lord showed me the difference and now I can't believe I didn't see it..but revelation about the finished work of our Lord is like that..

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ion-confession-1-john-1-9-sin-confession.html

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Here is a complete thread that talks about 1 John 1:9 for those wanting to see what is being said....it's been hashed over a multiple of times....

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ion-confession-1-john-1-9-sin-confession.html

And here's back atcha, bucko:

> http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-modern-hyper-grace-blasphemy.html?highlight=

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

John 12

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

Just bringing it to the table for examination ...

For your consideration

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee [Moses], and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [it] of him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

John 12

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

Just bringing it to the table for examination ...

John 3:18
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

He who has faith hears his words and does them..

for the rest, Jesus words will condemn them on judgment day.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Because he teaches the same things as the other false-grace teachers do. They may deviate on a point here and there, but they are basically all the same. You will find little difference between what Ellis teaches and what Andrew Farley teaches, who I know teaches the lord's prayer is an old covenant prayer.

What do you think about the lie they teach that 1 John 1:9 is not directed towards all believers?

I have asked you the same question twice and you have refused to provide an answer. The above is not an answer.

For the third time: Why do you call escapetoreality.org a "false-grace" website?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Here is a complete thread that talks about 1 John 1:9 for those wanting to see what is being said....it's been hashed over a multiple of times......people are free to decide on their own things...I know for me..this was a hard one at first because of my religious teachings...but the Lord showed me the difference and now I can't believe I didn't see it..but revelation about the finished work of our Lord is like that..

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ion-confession-1-john-1-9-sin-confession.html

This reminds me: Is Galahad still around CC?

 

[Grace777x70]

This reminds me: Is Galahad still around CC?

Don't know him/her....sorry...can't answer...

 

[achildofGod]

This reminds me: Is Galahad still around CC?

No, he left about 6 months ago.
Got to hot for him, I guess, by
his last comments.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Many have claimed it is slander to say those who call people who believe in obedience and righteousness as legalists, do not themselves support obedience and righteousness.

The real question is, are we talking about the same thing? The answer is no because they reject the principles and morality we would want to obey and call righteousness.

So the question is obedience to what in their eyes?

Take the sermon on the mount. They say that is addressed to Jews and not christians.
The Lords prayer, old covenant. In fact everything before the cross is irrelevant.

Righteousness? Well nothing in the law, because that is just for Jews or to convict of failure.
Now there is much in the letters of the apostles but it does not relate to penal or civil govenance, rather personal attitudes and emotional responses. But everything that refers back to Jews or Jewish attitudes is also excluded. So you will hear the words context, but that just means ignore or apply this area to your life depending on the audience.

So though these people appear to have the same language as us, they actually approve of a different moral and relationship model.

It is why the language can be the same but the actual implications different.

Not surprisingly this is actually a different faith but with a similar language. Now they argue it is the true faith and what we have practised for 2000 years is actually false legalism and self justification.

Now they will strut and preen and say they are being loving to the weak believer and condemning the pharisee for their legalism and hypocracy. Now this appears on the surface a legitimate position until you realise it is they who continually confess about sin and failure, about being bound and never able to be free from issues. The best they do is repress ones conscience, say the Holy Spirit never convicts of sin, and say walking in the Spirit is the goal, but continually walk in the flesh which they feel guilty about.

The whole premise is you can never walk in fellowship before the Lord in purity and righteousness, even redeemed washed and purified. So though they claim they are freeing themselves from condemnation, they actually believe they deserve it.

Their response is the christian is called to be perfect which is impossible. The problem is "perfect" is in the eyes of the beholder. To say righteous, blameless, walking in love and the Holy Spirit, the apostles say this should be our position and should be our experience. If this is not possible, why did Jesus die on the cross, why are we called the body of Christ, holy, redeemed, a glory to the King of Kings.

Now I talk as I do, because I believe your heart can be cleaned, your emotions can respond on the inside the same as the outside, you can be really alive, rejoicing, knowing you are a child of heaven and Christ has done a new work in you.

They do not hold to this, though they talk of grace, it is grace to a flawed and failed people who actually stay like that except of occasional miraculous healings. Anything else is of the flesh.

The Holy Ghost reveals Truths to a person. Who, according to the Word of God, receives the Holy Ghost?

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Did he lie? Or is that the TRUTH, that the HOLY GHOST is given to them that OBEY HIM. Who? Them that OBEY HIM. Woe to this generation who think they have TRUTH, yet do not obey HIM.

Those who OBEY HIM, are Righteous
Those who disobey HIM, or unrighteous
Those who obey God, are Righteous
Those who obey satan, are unrighteous.
Those who obey God, are Born of God
Those who obey satan, are born of satan
Those who do GOOD, are Good Trees
Those who do evil, are bad trees
Those who do BOTH, good and bad, are bad trees, because they are LUKEWARM
Those who obey Jesus, accepts His promptings
Those who disobey Jesus, REJECT His promptings
Those who have ceased from sin, are they that Have Jesus living in them to HELP them overcome all temptations
Those who claim they can't cease from sin, are cursed children, not believing that all things are possible with God.
Those who do righteousness, are righteous
Those who do unrighteousness, are UNRIGHTEOUS.
Those who Love One Another, walk in the light
Those who Fail to Love One Another, walk in darkness

It is so simple that children can understand this.
Those who LOVE God will not obey His enemy.

There is NO temptation that comes upon you, that is so strong that you can't handle it.
And with EVERY temptation that comes upon you, Jesus allows a path out of it.

Woe to this generation who does not seek Jesus to help them overcome that temptation, nor do they look for the path out of that temptation, no, not this wicked generation that is before His eyes, this generation would rather just commit the sin, ask for forgiveness and think to themselves all is well and they are Heaven bound no matter what sins they continue to live in and do. Blind they are, walking on the broad and easy path, all the while thinking they are on the narrow and difficult path that only a very few will find.

Anyone who continues to obey satan, belongs to satan. PERIOD. Now if you Repent and CEASE to obey satan, then you no longer belong to satan.

As long a person continues to lie, they will be judged a LIAR
As long a person continues to steal, they will be judged a THIEF
As long a person continues to Fornicate, they will be judge a Fornicator
As long a person continues to live in sin, they will be judged a SINNER.

But if they repent and cease to do those things, then Jesus will forgiven them, and they will go to Heaven to be with Him. But as long as they continue to live in them, they will die in them and not live.

According to man, and the teaching of man, the blood of Jesus Christ washes you of all sins, past, present, and future. That is what man teaches, that is the doctrine of men. What does Scriptures actually say and teach, and they do not lie.

1Jn_1:7 But if (Conditional) we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

So then Scriptures plainly teaches it is conditional, but men teach it is NOT conditional which is contrary to what the Word of God actually teaches. Let the doctrine of men be FALSE, and the doctrine of God TRUE. Woe to those who live in this generation, their heads are full of sweet tasting lies that men have taught them to be truth., easy Christianity, believe and that is all there is to it, easy. You better start reading the Word of God for yourself, and stop putting your faith in man to reveal the TRUTHs of the Word of God to you. Your soul is at stake here. Read and learn the TRUTH your own self, before it is too late. Which is going to be soon.

^i^

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I have asked you the same question twice and you have refused to provide an answer. The above is not an answer.

For the third time: Why do you call escapetoreality.org a "false-grace" website?

I told you why, but you didn't hear it. If you want to become Mr. Expert about the website, be my guest. I have read enough of it to know Ellis teaches what the other false-grace teachers teach. Frankly, it makes sick to read the guy's lies, so I'm not really interested to go dig out details from there for you. Do your own research. In fact, why don't you start with this to see if he actually teaches this lie.

> http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-modern-hyper-grace-blasphemy.html?highlight=

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I told you why, but you didn't hear it. If you want to become Mr. Expert about the website, be my guest. I have read enough of it to know Ellis teaches what the other false-grace teachers teach. Frankly, it makes sick to read the guy's lies, so I'm not really interested to go dig out details from there for you. Do your own research. In fact, why don't you start with this to see if he actually teaches this lie.

> http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-modern-hyper-grace-blasphemy.html?highlight=

Why are you here?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why are you here?

i have been asking that for months now.