Tongues

[wolfwint]

Tach Wolf,

The question is a controversial one, yes. I suppose you're asking when prophecies will pass away and tongues will cease, etc. V. 12 gives us a clue. Unless we know fully now, even as we are fully known by the Lord and unless we no longer see through a mirror, dimly, but see Jesus face to face, we can assume that these gifts haven't ended.

Tach Kohelet, nice car! I had long time ago. .
Well, i belive that the Lord is working today, no doubting. And he is useing healing, and also special ways , special in missionfield to bring people into his family. What I cant see is that we can use the scripture as we would live in 80 years past christ.
And as explanation for having the sign gifts for the church today, because of the events in 1906 Azusa-street which was also acompanied with strange signs which we dont find in the bible as a manifestation of the Holy spirit. It is not enough evident for me.
With having the word of god in our hands, we dont need to have prophecie, with having eldest in our churches we dont need the gift of healing. Every believer can pray for another, without having thegift of healing. And for a deep relationship with our father we also dont need the prayer in tongues.
Much more important in our world is to preach the word, so long we have time to do it.

 

[CS1]

Tach Kohelet, nice car! I had long time ago. .
Well, i belive that the Lord is working today, no doubting. And he is using healing, and also special ways , special in mission field to bring people into his family. What I cant see is that we can use the scripture as we would live in 80 years past christ.
And as explanation for having the sign gifts for the church today, because of the events in 1906 Azusa-street which was also accompanied with strange signs which we don't find in the bible as a manifestation of the Holy spirit. It is not enough evident for me.
With having the word of god in our hands, we don't need to have prophecy, with having eldest in our churches we dont need the gift of healing. Every believer can pray for another, without having the gift of healing. And for a deep relationship with our father we also dont need the prayer in tongues.
Much more important in our world is to preach the word, so long we have time to do it.

again if you don't that fine but the bible is clear the Holy Spirit empowers and give gifts , and prayer to is a gift just saying answered prayers can also be a gift, Eternal life is a gift I will not speak about why it is or not When Jesus said you shall or the Bible tells us that they are from the Holy Spirit . All the gifts as far as 1906 Azusa street LOL how about 70 AD-95 AD 1 cor 12, 13, 14 Acts 1:8 chapter 2 10, 15, 19 . we dismiss 2000 years ago experience based on 1906 when nobody was here in 70 AD or 1906 lol hahahaha

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Funny really, not funny ha ha but funny peculiar, I was wondering how I was going to word this question.

We really are a silly bunch on CC, but in faith I will re-ask it. Thank you all for the advice given.

How would I guide someone here on CC to hold and own the gift of tongues if they said they had accepted Christ and had had evidence in their own lives that the Holy Spirit was in them?

You couldn't...you don't decide which gifts someone gets. If speaking in tongues is not one of the gifts the Spirit blesses them with, it just isn't. Not everyone is a hand or foot in the body and not everyone is a tongue...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You can't. It's a spiritual gift that only the Holy Spirit can bring.

And if I'd held my tongue and read further I'd have found the question answered already!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

If someone is desiring to speak in a tongue, the only way you could guide them would be to teach them all that is available concerning the subject. If said someone is born again, they already "hold and own" the gift of holy spirit which manifest itself 9 ways - listed in 1 Cor. 12 - although most use the word "gift" when speaking of verses 8-10. Verse 7 says - but the manifestations of the Spirit . . . then goes into the list.

BTW - even when you post on this thread at the bottom, there is a list of previous threads on the subject.

Wow, I never noticed the word manifestations there...

 

[CS1]

Originally Posted by bikerchaz
Funny really, not funny ha ha but funny peculiar, I was wondering how I was going to word this question.

We really are a silly bunch on CC, but in faith I will re-ask it. Thank you all for the advice given.

How would I guide someone here on CC to hold and own the gift of tongues if they said they had accepted Christ and had had evidence in their own lives that the Holy Spirit was in them?


This is were we get into trouble by focusing on the Gift instead of the Gift Giver. Jesus is the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit. The Bible tells us to desire spiritual gift but we are to draw near to God it is about the relationship not the gift. If you want to see more of God then do what Jesus said Love God with all. that's it. any more would suggest that they are incomplete and have one who is young in the Lord chasing an experience instead of developing the Relationship. then when the experience doesn't meet theirs expectation they think something is wrong with them. Or if the one who has had the experience he or she wants them to have it the same way they did and that is not always the case Jesus is their personal savior and Lord LET HIM DO IT get out of the way!!!!!!

 

[Gr8grace]

again if you don't that fine but the bible is clear the Holy Spirit empowers and give gifts , and prayer to is a gift just saying answered prayers can also be a gift, Eternal life is a gift I will not speak about why it is or not When Jesus said you shall or the Bible tells us that they are from the Holy Spirit . All the gifts

The thing for me though, is that we have......Will pass away or will cease.

And then love will never end? Certain things that will cease and certain things that won't.


Love will never cease.........because this is the Christian way of life.

Love is the love complex. The love complex entails every detail of the Christian way of life...........and all of it is laid out in Gods word. Every thing we need is in Gods prefect and complete word.

Love~~Being filled with the Spirit, walking in the Spirit, problem solving devices,positive volition,love for God,virtue, thankfulness, right mental attitude,impersonal unconditional love for mankind and many many more.

Love is not just an emotion and being nice. Love encompasses the whole of the Christian way of life.........the love complex. And Gods word lays out every detail. And when His word was complete, bible doctrine became the order of the day. The signs that verified the message passed away.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Biker.... you've gotten the answer several times.... you cannot do it.

I urge you to read what Paul said about spiritual gifts... he said that speaking in tongues are the LEAST desirable of the gifts. The gift of prophesy is SO much more desirable.

Even so, you (or anyone else) cannot "lead" someone to receive something from the Holy Spirit. These gifts are not something to "expect".. the Spirit decides what gift fits you... and likely it will be more than one.

Personally, I don't care if I NEVER speak an angelic tongue, as wonderful as that might be for my private prayer life... I much prefer more useful gifts, and I hope to acquire more, as the Spirit sees fit...

I agree. I've known God for over 9 years. He has gifted me with a lot. Never tongues though. And here's the thing though, I've never desired it. I'm perfectly fine with whatever gifts He wants me to have. I sure have desired the gift of healing though. But I haven't received that one either.

It doesn't bother me though that some think I am doing something wrong or I'd speak in tongues. I'm too blessed to get upset about something like that!

 

[Grace777x70]

There are between 600--800 million people ( depending on what survey you read ) that pray in tongues to their Father in the world now. It is definitely a gift for today IMO.

There is a big difference between personal devotional tongues where we speak to our Father ( this is for personal use for the believer to pray directly to God - to edify the believer) and in the "gift of tongues" as one of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit - this type of tongues is followed by the gift of interpretation and that is for use in the assembly to edify others.

I encourage people that are open to receive this from the Lord - just ask Him and He will bring to you what you need personally to show you that it is indeed available to anyone. ( the gifts of tongues with interpretation is as the Spirit wills only ) It's a wonderful blessing from our Lord.

I also fully understand there are those that believe it was done away with when the last one speaking in tongues died..I guess. I don't think there is any scripture to support this idea at all but we can use our natural minds to dismiss it.

If we are at least open and ask the Lord about it..He will be faithful to us and show us what good things He has for us.

Bless everyone in the thread as this will be my last post in here. God bless you all! We have a great salvation in our Lord and a good, loving Father who gives us good things....

 

[Tresnouveau_ne]

There are between 600--800 million people ( depending on what survey you read ) that pray in tongues to their Father in the world now. It is definitely a gift for today IMO.

There is a big difference between personal devotional tongues where we speak to our Father ( this is for personal use for the believer to pray directly to God - to edify the believer) and in the "gift of tongues" as one of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit - this type of tongues is followed by the gift of interpretation and that is for use in the assembly to edify others.

I encourage people that are open to receive this from the Lord - just ask Him and He will bring to you what you need personally to show you that it is indeed available to anyone. ( the gifts of tongues with interpretation is as the Spirit wills only ) It's a wonderful blessing from our Lord.

I also fully understand there are those that believe it was done away with when the last one speaking in tongues died..I guess. I don't think there is any scripture to support this idea at all but we can use our natural minds to dismiss it.

If we are at least open and ask the Lord about it..He will be faithful to us and show us what good things He has for us.

Bless everyone in the thread as this will be my last post in here. God bless you all! We have a great salvation in our Lord and a good, loving Father who gives us good things....

If we are at least open and ask the Lord about it..He will be faithful to us and show us what good things He has for us.

I hope you didnt mean that if we ask he will give because that would be a huge falsehood spoken! People put way too much emphasis on tongues these days and that is why the enemy has come in with his imitation and it is like a cancer in the body of Christ. Do some have it? Yes. Does God give the gift to all? No.

Blessings to you as well. We do indeed serve a very loving merciful Father.

 

[Elizabeth619]

There are between 600--800 million people ( depending on what survey you read ) that pray in tongues to their Father in the world now. It is definitely a gift for today IMO.

There is a big difference between personal devotional tongues where we speak to our Father ( this is for personal use for the believer to pray directly to God - to edify the believer) and in the "gift of tongues" as one of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit - this type of tongues is followed by the gift of interpretation and that is for use in the assembly to edify others.

I encourage people that are open to receive this from the Lord - just ask Him and He will bring to you what you need personally to show you that it is indeed available to anyone. ( the gifts of tongues with interpretation is as the Spirit wills only ) It's a wonderful blessing from our Lord.

I also fully understand there are those that believe it was done away with when the last one speaking in tongues died..I guess. I don't think there is any scripture to support this idea at all but we can use our natural minds to dismiss it.

If we are at least open and ask the Lord about it..He will be faithful to us and show us what good things He has for us.

Bless everyone in the thread as this will be my last post in here. God bless you all! We have a great salvation in our Lord and a good, loving Father who gives us good things....

1 Cor 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

 

[Gr8grace]

I left Pentecostal/charismatic churches after 15 years of being in them. I went there as a new Christian, because I didn't know any better. And it seemed exciting!

I left, because I realized 99% of what I was hearing was utter nonsense. Same with the prophecy. Now, I am not saying that God will not use people to speak in tongues or prophecy, but I am saying they are rare gifts today.

I do believe that God can do as he wants. We cannot put him in a box. But I don't think what is happening in Pentecostal and charismatic churches from God. I believe that, because God gave us his Word. Yet only yesterday, I was looking up a church online that some people I met went to, and the focus was on "a new Word!" What happened to the old Word?

God left us his Word and that is what we need to rely on. Not some kind of babbling!

BUT that being said, and I have told this story before, so bear with me. We knew a man, a Fijian East Indian. God called him as an evangelist. He was speaking at a meeting and he said 4 words in an unknown tongue. Just four!

Well, at the end of the meeting, a man came running up from the back with the napkin from the meal in his hand. He was waving it at the evangelist. He said to the evangelist, "Why didn't you say you spoke Armenian?"

Well, of course the evangelist did not speak Armenian. So he showed him the 4 words, and told him them meant, "Jesus Christ is Lord." I don't know how anyone could disagree with that.

So the evangelist was able to lead the man to the Lord. Then, he led 27 members of his family to the Lord. All because God gave him 4 words in Armenian. I saw the napkin, and the words looked real. (I don't speak Armenian, but I trusted this man, who I had known for years, and seen his ministry)

My thought is that we should rely on the Word of God for all things. But if God gives us 4 words to witness to someone and 28 people get saved, we should not scorn that gift.

I am with you. God can and does do miraculous things through men and women. But the gift of tongues ceased.

These were people who had the gift. They could at will speak in tongues when they wanted.......hence the extreme disorder and the mess Paul was trying to fix.

So............Today, with tongues not even being legitimate, I couldn't imagine what Paul would have to say to us and our disorder!

 

[Angela53510]

Angela, If you would please?

Why is "perfect" in the neuter gender? Can we squeeze the person of Jesus Christ into being the "perfect" in 1 Cor 13:10?

I just got home, and spent some time reading about this in my Greek texts. It is a bit more complex than either ceasing or not ceasing. And it is also a highly debated topic amongst Greek scholars, who are WAY beyond me. So important though, that Wallace debates almost 2 pages to unpacking the grammar of 1 Cor. 13:10

"ὅταν δὲ ἔλθῃ τὸ τέλειον, [τὸ ἐκ μέρους καταργηθήσεται." 1 Cor. 13:10

"when the perfect comes the partial will be done away." 1 Cor. 13:10

"Grammatically speaking the word τὸ τέλειον or to teleion, can refer to the canon, for the adjective would naturally be neuter if it referred to a thing, even if the inferred noun were feminine, (such as graphe), it is difficult to see such a notion in this passage, for this view presupposes that Paul:
1. both Paul and the Corinthians knew he was writing Scripture
2. The apostle foresaw the completion of the NT before the Lord's return.

A more likely view is that "the perfect" refers to the coming of Christ, (note the terminus given in v12 tote) as "face to face" a personal reference that does not easily comport with the canon view."

Footnotes:
a. One cannot object that the reference is not used for the coming of Christ because the adj is neuter, since the neuter adj. is sometimes used for persons for reasons of rhetoric, aphoristic principle, suspense, etc. (See Matt 12:6, 41:1; 1 Cor. 1:27-28; Hebrew 7:7)

b. The above view is not necessarily to say that the sign gifts would continue until the Second Coming, for in Paul's mind, he would be alive when Christ returned ( 1 Thess. 4:15). Such an anticipation summarily removes this text from supporting either the charismatic or cessationist position on gift signs.

Daniel Wallace, Beyond the Basics of Biblical Greek, page 295.


Wallace also does a huge part on a related verse, 1 Cor. 13:8 under Middle verbs. He labels it "A Debatable and Exegeticallly Significant Text" on pages 422-23

He concludes the paragraphs with the words. "This is not to say that the middle voice in 1 Cor. 13:8 proves that tongues already ceased! This verse does not specifically address when the tongues would cease, although it gives a terminus ad quem: "When the perfect ceases."

Footnote:

There is no good reason for taking τὸ τέλειον as the close of the canon. Unfortunately, the view concerning παύσονται Pausontai (to cease) is typically associated with the canon-view of the "perfect." Perhaps this is why it has gotten little respect. "

This is really tough stuff, even for the best grammarians in the world. Also, I do not imagine that Wallace is Pentecostal, as his cousin is my professor and he is not. But I will ask my prof and see what kind of church he goes to. His bio indicates something not charismatic, but we will see.

 

[Tresnouveau_ne]

There are between 600--800 million people ( depending on what survey you read ) that pray in tongues to their Father in the world now. It is definitely a gift for today IMO.

There is a big difference between personal devotional tongues where we speak to our Father ( this is for personal use for the believer to pray directly to God - to edify the believer) and in the "gift of tongues" as one of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit - this type of tongues is followed by the gift of interpretation and that is for use in the assembly to edify others.

I encourage people that are open to receive this from the Lord - just ask Him and He will bring to you what you need personally to show you that it is indeed available to anyone. ( the gifts of tongues with interpretation is as the Spirit wills only ) It's a wonderful blessing from our Lord.

I also fully understand there are those that believe it was done away with when the last one speaking in tongues died..I guess. I don't think there is any scripture to support this idea at all but we can use our natural minds to dismiss it.

If we are at least open and ask the Lord about it..He will be faithful to us and show us what good things He has for us.

Bless everyone in the thread as this will be my last post in here. God bless you all! We have a great salvation in our Lord and a good, loving Father who gives us good things....

If we are at least open and ask the Lord about it..He will be faithful to us and show us what good things He has for us.

I hope you didnt mean that if we ask he will give because that would be a huge falsehood spoken! People put way too much emphasis on tongues these days and that is why the enemy has come in with his imitation and it is like a cancer in the body of Christ. Do some have it? Yes. Does God give the gift to all? No.

Blessings to you as well. We do indeed serve a very loving merciful Father.

 

[Gr8grace]

There are between 600--800 million people ( depending on what survey you read ) that pray in tongues to their Father in the world now. It is definitely a gift for today IMO.

There is a big difference between personal devotional tongues where we speak to our Father ( this is for personal use for the believer to pray directly to God - to edify the believer) and in the "gift of tongues" as one of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit - this type of tongues is followed by the gift of interpretation and that is for use in the assembly to edify others.

I encourage people that are open to receive this from the Lord - just ask Him and He will bring to you what you need personally to show you that it is indeed available to anyone. ( the gifts of tongues with interpretation is as the Spirit wills only ) It's a wonderful blessing from our Lord.

I also fully understand there are those that believe it was done away with when the last one speaking in tongues died..I guess. I don't think there is any scripture to support this idea at all but we can use our natural minds to dismiss it.

If we are at least open and ask the Lord about it..He will be faithful to us and show us what good things He has for us.

Bless everyone in the thread as this will be my last post in here. God bless you all! We have a great salvation in our Lord and a good, loving Father who gives us good things....

Tongues was a gift to people, to speak a message from God to other people(this people/Jews.)

Its a gift from God. A message from God. To give that message to others.

Why would God give a message FROM Himself to a person to give it right back to Himself in an unintelligible language?

And Grace777, you know I love ya Bro....... I believe in biblical tongues, they were very real. Absolutely no doubt about tongues in my mind. I do not dismiss biblical tongues........so why do I have a natural mind?

 

[Gr8grace]

I just got home, and spent some time reading about this in my Greek texts. It is a bit more complex than either ceasing or not ceasing. And it is also a highly debated topic amongst Greek scholars, who are WAY beyond me. So important though, that Wallace debates almost 2 pages to unpacking the grammar of 1 Cor. 13:10

"ὅταν δὲ ἔλθῃ τὸ τέλειον, [τὸ ἐκ μέρους καταργηθήσεται." 1 Cor. 13:10

"when the perfect comes the partial will be done away." 1 Cor. 13:10

"Grammatically speaking the word τὸ τέλειον or to teleion, can refer to the canon, for the adjective would naturally be neuter if it referred to a thing, even if the inferred noun were feminine, (such as graphe), it is difficult to see such a notion in this passage, for this view presupposes that Paul:
1. both Paul and the Corinthians knew he was writing Scripture
2. The apostle foresaw the completion of the NT before the Lord's return.

A more likely view is that "the perfect" refers to the coming of Christ, (note the terminus given in v12 tote) as "face to face" a personal reference that does not easily comport with the canon view."

Footnotes:
a. One cannot object that the reference is not used for the coming of Christ because the adj is neuter, since the neuter adj. is sometimes used for persons for reasons of rhetoric, aphoristic principle, suspense, etc. (See Matt 12:6, 41:1; 1 Cor. 1:27-28; Hebrew 7:7)

b. The above view is not necessarily to say that the sign gifts would continue until the Second Coming, for in Paul's mind, he would be alive when Christ returned ( 1 Thess. 4:15). Such an anticipation summarily removes this text from supporting either the charismatic or cessationist position on gift signs.

Daniel Wallace, Beyond the Basics of Biblical Greek, page 295.


Wallace also does a huge part on a related verse, 1 Cor. 13:8 under Middle verbs. He labels it "A Debatable and Exegeticallly Significant Text" on pages 422-23

He concludes the paragraphs with the words. "This is not to say that the middle voice in 1 Cor. 13:8 proves that tongues already ceased! This verse does not specifically address when the tongues would cease, although it gives a terminus ad quem: "When the perfect ceases."

Footnote:

There is no good reason for taking τὸ τέλειον as the close of the canon. Unfortunately, the view concerning παύσονται Pausontai (to cease) is typically associated with the canon-view of the "perfect." Perhaps this is why it has gotten little respect. "

This is really tough stuff, even for the best grammarians in the world. Also, I do not imagine that Wallace is Pentecostal, as his cousin is my professor and he is not. But I will ask my prof and see what kind of church he goes to. His bio indicates something not charismatic, but we will see.

Thank you Sis. What a blessing you are around here.

 

[Angela53510]

well that is your opinion, I think it is interesting we like to discredit something that God has done by our own negative experience. I know ,many who would also discredit the bible because man wrote it . I stand on the biblical context not a pentecostal / Charismatic church experience. what is babbling/ and what is Tongues ? because I do not see the word babble used in the Acts account nor in 1cor 12, 13, 14 nor in Gospel Mark 16 .

What I said was:

I left, because I realized 99% of what I was hearing was utter nonsense. Same with the prophecy. Now, I am not saying that God will not use people to speak in tongues or prophecy, but I am saying they are rare gifts today.

I guess I should explain the "utter nonsense." For me, it was people speaking in tongues using one syllable, over and over. Every time they spoke. Not sure how that is an unknown tongue. I also speak French and German, and I know you have to have more than one, or two or even 4 syllables that are repeated over week after week, Sunday after Sunday.

Another excess was the rowdy over emotionalism. I'm not talking about lifting hands. I'm talking about rolling in the aisles, or things being much worse than any bar I ever played in with drunks.

Then there were things out of order. Person after person speaking in tongues and nary an interpretation in sight. And this wasn't just one church, but many. In different places, non denom and denom.

Then there were people who thought they were more spiritual than the rest of the congregation because they always seemed to have a word of prophecy, just before the sermon. Which was more important than the sermon.

And as I studied the references in the NT concerning tongues, it became obvious that God really used them to reach the world with the gospel. Well, except for "unknown" tongues. But then, if they were a real language, that God gave to someone, they weren't unknown, were they?

As I studied the Bible more and more, I came to the conclusion that "a fresh, new Word" actually devalued the Bible. Because God left us his Word for us to grow and learn - not a church service where things got out of hand. Oh, and when those "fresh new words" contradicted the Bible, but no one would speak against it for fear of "blaspheming the Holy Spirit," that really bothered me too. More likely God will be judging those who have usurped the place of the Holy Spirit.

I don't judge anyone who knows the Word, and puts it first. But I do not like the terrible excesses in the charismatic church, at places like the Toronto "Revival" and I use the word revival loosely.

No, man certainly did not write the Bible. Maybe the words on paper were written by a person, but after 2000 years, we can be absolutely certain that the Holy Spirit inspired the whole Bible (3500 years for the OT) Your argument is a false one.

And no, my point to objecting to tongues, at least in their modern counterpart is exactly because babbling is NOT used in Acts or 1 Cor. But that is what I heard constantly in church. As someone with some Biblical discretion, and a knowledge of linguistics, that was not hard to figure out.

Besides, even if no one anywhere ever spoke in tongues again, would it really be a loss to the church? I don't think so, because as long as we have the Bible, we have all we need to really learn about not only who God is, but his expectations for us, and all the theology we will ever need.

 

[Blain]

Speaking in tongues is a gift from the holy spirit and we don't choose which gifts we are given and any gifts we are given will show itself naturally as we grow closer to God.

But you know holding the tongue is also an amazing gift, a silver tongue is often a quite tongue

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Paul said by revelation from Jesus Christ - I would that you all spake with tongues (KJV) - I would like every one of you to speak in tongues (NIV) - Now I want you all to speak in tongues (ESV). Everyone ignores the first part of 14:5 and attach more emphasis on the second half of the scripture - "but rather that you prophesied: for greater is he that prophesies than he that speaks with tongues, EXCEPT he interpret" - the second half has to do with "in the church" since the speaking in tongues is to be interpreted. We can't do away with the first half of the verse and say that Jesus never said we needed tongues to pray - He exhorts us through revelation to Paul to speak in tongues . . . .

"its more about people being familiar with scripture" . . . . 14:22-25 scripture says - "those that are unlearned or unbelievers"

I can't for the life of me see where "things do not add up" in the scripture concerning speaking in tongues . . . . 3 whole chapters in 1 Cor. devoted only to the spiritual matters and the manifestation of the Spirit - and how they should be conducted in the church and how they edify the believer . . .

Okay, I don't know what page I'm up to now. Hoping I can finish the thread before I nod off.
But I have a question please?

I know I need to look these scriptures up for myself, also, which I'm also hoping to do before my eyes snap shut.
So the question is something I'm confused about. If tongues are given to benefit unbelievers, not believers, and if there are no new faces in the gathering on a certain day, would there be any reason to speak in tongues on that day? Also, why is an interpreter needed if God can make every man hear what is being spoken in his own language, like on the pentecost. I can imagine that would have been a huge sign to unbelievers on that day. I imagine like, these two guys who were friends, who had different native languages but they became friends because one of them also knew a second language, which was the friends native language. So he hears his own language being spoken and knows his friend won't understand, so he starts whispering to him: oh, he's saying such and such and his friend says, shut up, I can hear what he's saying just fine since he's speaking in my language. And the other guy says, no he's not, he's speaking in my native language, which you don't understand. So his buddy starts saying, well I hear him saying thus and thus, is that what YOU hear him saying?? Haha! Can you imagine the sign that would be to them?? Pretty amazing!

Did my questions come across making any sense there because I sure did get off on a tangent...sorry.
And thank you for being willing to answer. I know it can be wearing when people just want to argue.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I THINK THAT YOUR POINT IS NOT IN CONTEXT TO THE CHAPTERS OF 1 COR 12, 13, AND 14. most who study these important chaPTER do so from what they have been taught from those who are for tongues or from those who are against it today. The context of chapter 12, 13 and 14 start with 1. Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant

It is clear paul is going to teach about the Gifts of the Holy Spirit ALL the gifts .

2. the gift cannot be used until one is in a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ

1cor 12:3

"Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost."
This is the defining statement which leads into the operation of the " Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
the very next verse says :4 NOW there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

3. This continues through the remaining chapter of 12 The listing of all the gifts and the importances of them in the body of Christ nowhere in this chapter is it even mentioned any of the gifts are not to be used.
the very last verse of chapter 12 sayes? :31 " But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."

What does this mean? chapter 13 tells us what the greater gift is :1 " If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

​Love is the greatest gift !! Love is the glue which all the Gifts are used in . If any gift including tongues , prophecy, discerning of spirits, word of knowledge, healing, word of wisdom, divers kinds of tongues. All of these gifts are for the whole body and all are required to be used in and operated by LOVE And chapter 13 also speaks about Maturity think about it God is trusting you with a gift. Who has not abused all of the gifts? or what examples of hurt people do you know that have suffered by the using of the Gifts wrongly? The list is Long Preaching teaching they are gifts abused daily. Yet these gifts are still in operation today and MORE people have been hurt by a Preacher /teacher then any thing that God has given to the church as a gift.
This is where chapter 14 leads into Correctly using the gifts in Love and maturity and with Good discipline. No where does he say that the gift are done away with the context tells the church to

Edify with gifts :26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Order when gifts are being used :28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Don't say amen if it is not biblical correct :29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

maturity and self-control with the gift :30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

If Tongues is the least of the gift that are not to be stopped How much more should all the other be used?
:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

ln the very last verse of chapter 14 says :40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

The "all" in context to the above and the previously stated in chapter 12, 13, and in 14.

Be saved, Be loving, Be mature, Be used, be a blessing to all I hope you all are blessed by God and used in the way HE want to use you The Gift are HIS and HE the Spirit of God distributes them as HE sees fit.

Well, you certainly have a GIFT of breaking it down in an understandable way!