Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version
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I think it is a model prayer and we can glean all kinds of good stuff from it. I believe Jesus gave that prayer for his disciples before He went to the cross and there were elements in that prayer to ask for the kingdom of God to come.
I do not repeat it by the words used in Matt..but I use the truth that is in it when necessary in my prayer to the Lord.
I think that some of it has been fulfilled already when the kingdom came after Christ's death and resurrection. The kingdom of God is now within us - in our new creation in Christ.
( the part about your Father will not forgive you if you don't forgive is Old Covenant forgiveness and it was very appropriate for before the cross...in the New Covenant we are forgiven and because we are forgiven - we forgive. )
I always say to the Lord "Let your kingdom in me come out and be seen in this world now that Jesus is in me "
The prayer that Jesus taught us is brilliant for it covers everything – from the big stuff to our daily needs and our relationships with others – without being a formula. It is not a set of magic words but an invitation to approach the throne of grace in our hour of need.
Although some treat the Lord’s Prayer as a religious and lifeless cliché, its real power is in revealing a mighty God who loves us like a Father and cares for even the smallest details of our lives.
Praying in the manner ( not the exact words as a formula ) that Jesus taught changes us. It transforms us from desperate, lonely individuals into who we truly are; our Father’s beloved children.
I do not repeat it by the words used in Matt..but I use the truth that is in it when necessary in my prayer to the Lord.
I think that some of it has been fulfilled already when the kingdom came after Christ's death and resurrection. The kingdom of God is now within us - in our new creation in Christ.
( the part about your Father will not forgive you if you don't forgive is Old Covenant forgiveness and it was very appropriate for before the cross...in the New Covenant we are forgiven and because we are forgiven - we forgive. )
I always say to the Lord "Let your kingdom in me come out and be seen in this world now that Jesus is in me "
The prayer that Jesus taught us is brilliant for it covers everything – from the big stuff to our daily needs and our relationships with others – without being a formula. It is not a set of magic words but an invitation to approach the throne of grace in our hour of need.
Although some treat the Lord’s Prayer as a religious and lifeless cliché, its real power is in revealing a mighty God who loves us like a Father and cares for even the smallest details of our lives.
Praying in the manner ( not the exact words as a formula ) that Jesus taught changes us. It transforms us from desperate, lonely individuals into who we truly are; our Father’s beloved children.
E
Thanks, you got to be careful when you cut and paste. You might agree with 99 percent of stuff the guy said, But that 1 % can come back and bite you. especially when you have guys like HRFTD and PETER doing everything they can to find a flaw in what you post..
Same with video's..
thats why it is better just to say what you believe.
Same with video's..
thats why it is better just to say what you believe.
Many months ago I gave up reading his posts, too long and convoluted.
He has managed to marry in his mind having all your sins forgiven, past, present future and that being a spring board into victorious living.
My problem with this, it is missing out some important emotional steps. Without love working in your heart and understanding you are completely accepted, most stay in the world of sin and compromise. Taking away the need to do anything religious or devoted to God other than how you personally feel, you can choose what you do and how you apply this approach. It is like he is the best example this approach can create, but is not the real fruit of his teaching.
When you hear and read problems with this message from all over the world about simple ideas of dumping morality and knowing you are accepted, it leads to compromised lives. It is why the teaching of any preacher is not in the fruit they show of their lives, but the people who follow this teaching. There have been innumerable people from churches who have gone this way and now find they were lost and empty, thinking they had found Christ but simply were in sin or fell into sin without any warnings.
It also ran completely against the message of love transforming the heart by following Jesus and His example.
And when I shared about the power of love in your heart I was condemned as being evil. So I now oppose these ideas and the yeast it is spreading, which is real hypocracy and failure.
He has managed to marry in his mind having all your sins forgiven, past, present future and that being a spring board into victorious living.
My problem with this, it is missing out some important emotional steps. Without love working in your heart and understanding you are completely accepted, most stay in the world of sin and compromise. Taking away the need to do anything religious or devoted to God other than how you personally feel, you can choose what you do and how you apply this approach. It is like he is the best example this approach can create, but is not the real fruit of his teaching.
When you hear and read problems with this message from all over the world about simple ideas of dumping morality and knowing you are accepted, it leads to compromised lives. It is why the teaching of any preacher is not in the fruit they show of their lives, but the people who follow this teaching. There have been innumerable people from churches who have gone this way and now find they were lost and empty, thinking they had found Christ but simply were in sin or fell into sin without any warnings.
It also ran completely against the message of love transforming the heart by following Jesus and His example.
And when I shared about the power of love in your heart I was condemned as being evil. So I now oppose these ideas and the yeast it is spreading, which is real hypocracy and failure.
T
When the video preacher airs his thoughts about "our father in heave" ... I just thought he was theologically confused ...
When he aired his interpretation of "hallowed be thy name" I threw up in my mouth a little ...
He is a fine example of why I usually avoid preachers and rely on God for pure food.
When he aired his interpretation of "hallowed be thy name" I threw up in my mouth a little ...
He is a fine example of why I usually avoid preachers and rely on God for pure food.
I hear ya'.....I usually don't agree 100% with everything some one says but I do get some good things out from them so I don't throw the baby out with the dirty water.
For some people tho I could say "God is love.." and they would be on me like a chicken on a bug...lol..that's the nature of the beast...some don't agree with some teachings and thus you are satanic, evil, full of sin..etc. I just ignore it....it's just the nature of the beast....
For some people tho I could say "God is love.." and they would be on me like a chicken on a bug...lol..that's the nature of the beast...some don't agree with some teachings and thus you are satanic, evil, full of sin..etc. I just ignore it....it's just the nature of the beast....
E
I hear ya'.....I usually don't agree 100% with everything some one says but I do get some good things out from them so I don't throw the baby out with the dirty water.
For some people tho I could say "God is love.." and they would be on me like a chicken on a bug...lol..that's the nature of the beast...some don't agree with some teachings and thus you are satanic, evil, full of sin..etc. I just ignore it....it's just the nature of the beast....
For some people tho I could say "God is love.." and they would be on me like a chicken on a bug...lol..that's the nature of the beast...some don't agree with some teachings and thus you are satanic, evil, full of sin..etc. I just ignore it....it's just the nature of the beast....
E
Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
I think that says it all,
We are holy (set apart positionally in christ) while we are being made Holy (set apart in our daily lives, as we become more Christlike)
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
I think that says it all,
We are holy (set apart positionally in christ) while we are being made Holy (set apart in our daily lives, as we become more Christlike)
EG - Does this mean you agree with this guy from Holland and his view of the Lords prayer?
He is so far gone, I give the whole idea no attention. And you think this political long set of words from grace7x77 actually can get away with without saying he agrees 100% with him, we are wrong.
I think you have no understanding as to how to lie and still appear to agree with an extreme positions but not lose supporters.
He is so far gone, I give the whole idea no attention. And you think this political long set of words from grace7x77 actually can get away with without saying he agrees 100% with him, we are wrong.
I think you have no understanding as to how to lie and still appear to agree with an extreme positions but not lose supporters.
Hypergrace - as it is now refered to and yes grace777 even your own camp use this title. Paul Ellis himself uses it, his subtitle is ...the modern grace message.
As I have said before there are plenty of good things the hyper grace movement emphasise.. God's grace, living in Christ etc etc, But, the problem is with their many errors.
What has been confused in this thread is people using the word grace, and then thinking that those using it mean the same thing. Hypergrace, have redifened for the christian, confession of sin and repentance. Exagerating grace over and against God's attributes..one that is strikingly obvious is 'Holiness'.
The only way that this NEW teaching can gain any credibility is to redifine key teachings and can only o so by redefining what scriture says..
Jesus' pre cross teachings especially the Lords prayer, and 1 John is the best example.
I don't believe in works righteousness, but as I have seen if you disagree with the hypergrace movement you are a legalist no matter what you believe. Which is also a misunderstanding of what a 'legalist' is.
I agree with Paul and James and so should you.
We are justified by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone.... and that faith without 'works' is a dead faith (notice I said works NOT works of the law).
As I have said before there are plenty of good things the hyper grace movement emphasise.. God's grace, living in Christ etc etc, But, the problem is with their many errors.
What has been confused in this thread is people using the word grace, and then thinking that those using it mean the same thing. Hypergrace, have redifened for the christian, confession of sin and repentance. Exagerating grace over and against God's attributes..one that is strikingly obvious is 'Holiness'.
The only way that this NEW teaching can gain any credibility is to redifine key teachings and can only o so by redefining what scriture says..
Jesus' pre cross teachings especially the Lords prayer, and 1 John is the best example.
I don't believe in works righteousness, but as I have seen if you disagree with the hypergrace movement you are a legalist no matter what you believe. Which is also a misunderstanding of what a 'legalist' is.
I agree with Paul and James and so should you.
We are justified by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone.... and that faith without 'works' is a dead faith (notice I said works NOT works of the law).
E
Did you not just read Grace777's post on the Lords prayer? Do you agree with Grace 777 or not.
Guy from holland? I would not go to him to understand what Grace 777 teaches, He has a habit of posting things which may say some things he believes, But does not agree wiht everything the guy says,
It is like me using dwight pentecost. I agree with alot of what he says concerning eschatology. Though not all.. even if I use him, You could not use dwight pentecost to see what I believe, because I do not agree wiht him on all things.
That is why I keep telling you and HRFTD to go to grace himself if you have questions..
I have a complete understanding of how you want to pervert what Grace 777 says, and keep bearing false witness against him,
Why? I ask grace questions, I do not take what others say at face value
Guy from holland? I would not go to him to understand what Grace 777 teaches, He has a habit of posting things which may say some things he believes, But does not agree wiht everything the guy says,
It is like me using dwight pentecost. I agree with alot of what he says concerning eschatology. Though not all.. even if I use him, You could not use dwight pentecost to see what I believe, because I do not agree wiht him on all things.
That is why I keep telling you and HRFTD to go to grace himself if you have questions..
I have a complete understanding of how you want to pervert what Grace 777 says, and keep bearing false witness against him,
Why? I ask grace questions, I do not take what others say at face value
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