-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Where does it say that? I need to read that again, if I missed it the first time.
If the Bible is not for private/personal interpretation, then what should teachers/evangelists/preachers do? Stand in front of their crowd and simply read scripture, then sit down? (do medieval Catholic churches come to mind here?)
If there is no private interpretation of what is written, then why don't we all just read our own Bibles and not even HAVE any teaching?
This makes absolutely no sense to me.
Which is what I said, I believe.
If the Bible is not for private/personal interpretation, then what should teachers/evangelists/preachers do? Stand in front of their crowd and simply read scripture, then sit down? (do medieval Catholic churches come to mind here?)
If there is no private interpretation of what is written, then why don't we all just read our own Bibles and not even HAVE any teaching?
This makes absolutely no sense to me.
Which is what I said, I believe.
D
I never know if God is approving or disapproving. I'm not kidding. Was Jonah's time in a fish's belly approval or disapproval? It got him where God wanted him with the right, (albeit brief), attitude.
All I know is God gets us exactly where he wants us exactly when we need to be there willing to do what we may or may not have wanted to do all along.
If it happens, it's God's will. Pharaoh was God's will. Jonah was God's will. David (Smart David and Dumb David lol) was God's will. Saul (Good Saul and Nuts Saul) was God's will.
Joel Olsteen has a huge church. I already told the story of our old church dying from lack of finances. Are both God's will? Sure, but the outcome may not always be to the good of the people participating.
"And we know that all things work for the good of those who love the Lord and are called according to his purposes."
It always makes me wonder about the ones not called to his purposes.
Maybe you're expecting me to say that church failed because a woman was running it. It may have been shrunken, but it's not over yet. No idea what God's purposes are in the line-by-line. I only know he gets his way and his way is to have himself a people who will worship and adore him eternally.
All I know is God gets us exactly where he wants us exactly when we need to be there willing to do what we may or may not have wanted to do all along.
If it happens, it's God's will. Pharaoh was God's will. Jonah was God's will. David (Smart David and Dumb David lol) was God's will. Saul (Good Saul and Nuts Saul) was God's will.
Joel Olsteen has a huge church. I already told the story of our old church dying from lack of finances. Are both God's will? Sure, but the outcome may not always be to the good of the people participating.
"And we know that all things work for the good of those who love the Lord and are called according to his purposes."
It always makes me wonder about the ones not called to his purposes.
Maybe you're expecting me to say that church failed because a woman was running it. It may have been shrunken, but it's not over yet. No idea what God's purposes are in the line-by-line. I only know he gets his way and his way is to have himself a people who will worship and adore him eternally.
A
You owe me no apology. You didn't offend me. If you did, I'd have to die to my prideful flesh anyway. 
Certainly we should speak Christ crucified with boldness in spite of the possibility someone may be offended. But God knows the heart. If we are promoting ourselves or our beliefs, that's error. If we are promoting Christ Jesus, it would be in love and the fruit of the spirit would be clearly evident.
I was not promoting my opinion. I was saying that Jesus didn't go about preaching against feminism. In fact, He said He didn't come to condemn anyone or go around labeling sinners like some do in this forum. That was the Pharisees' doing, constantly picking out splinters in other people's eyes but they themselves with huge logs of pride and vengeance and jealousy in their own eyes.
I'm saying that worldly wisdom, no matter how intelligent and reasonable it sounds, is error. It's not my belief, it's God's Truth. I don't know what your heart is hearing. In fact, I don't even know what you are defending. Don't you also agree that worldly wisdom is not God's truth?
Proverbs 3:7
Do not be wise in your own eyes.
Isaiah 5:12
Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes And clever in their own sight!
James 3:15
This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic.
I Corinthians 2:1-14
And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
I Timothy 6:20-21
O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge"-- which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith Grace be with you.
I Corinthians 3:20
The Lord knows the reasoning of the wise, that they are useless.
Certainly we should speak Christ crucified with boldness in spite of the possibility someone may be offended. But God knows the heart. If we are promoting ourselves or our beliefs, that's error. If we are promoting Christ Jesus, it would be in love and the fruit of the spirit would be clearly evident.
I was not promoting my opinion. I was saying that Jesus didn't go about preaching against feminism. In fact, He said He didn't come to condemn anyone or go around labeling sinners like some do in this forum. That was the Pharisees' doing, constantly picking out splinters in other people's eyes but they themselves with huge logs of pride and vengeance and jealousy in their own eyes.
I'm saying that worldly wisdom, no matter how intelligent and reasonable it sounds, is error. It's not my belief, it's God's Truth. I don't know what your heart is hearing. In fact, I don't even know what you are defending. Don't you also agree that worldly wisdom is not God's truth?
Proverbs 3:7
Do not be wise in your own eyes.
Isaiah 5:12
Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes And clever in their own sight!
James 3:15
This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic.
I Corinthians 2:1-14
And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
I Timothy 6:20-21
O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge"-- which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith Grace be with you.
I Corinthians 3:20
The Lord knows the reasoning of the wise, that they are useless.
You have taken these verses places they we never intended to go. Completely errant applications.
Adam was created first then eve was taken from his side to be a help meet for him.
Gods order in the church is for the man to lead. Priestly duties are the responsibility of the man.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Adam was created first then eve was taken from his side to be a help meet for him.
Gods order in the church is for the man to lead. Priestly duties are the responsibility of the man.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
D
(This is a real question, not a scold.)
As for the way I see it, haven't I already covered that? I just reread how I explained our governing system in my denom.
I was a part of Mercy Ministries, which was a title given (we're big into naming and giving titles to stuff lol) for the small group of us who kept open communications among the different ministries within the local Presbyteries. (The "local presbytery," in my case, are all the within-our-branch-of-Presbyterianism in the Greater Philadelphia area churches. Something like 6-9 million people live in or around Philly, so the local presby covered 17 churches -- back then -- in southeastern PA and southwestern NJ. One is massive, but it was broken up into five home churches so people get to know others in their area in the church and city. About a dozen are normal sized, establish churches. The rest are church plantings, so small and either growing or not, but they are firmly planted, so most grow and remain.) So, the massive one has a bunch of ministries going on that have grown big enough that some of them are they're their own non-profit. (My personal favorite is one that helps people with sexual addiction problems. Anyone from people who hop from bed to bed, to people caught up in the LBGT community -- even to giving people with AIDs food, companionship, and the gospel -- to people caught in the loop of masterbating.) But the normal sized churches have their own ministries too. I remember the one in NJ had a group of teens who worked all the school year to raise money to spend 2-3 weeks in Jamaica helping the needy down there. (The Jamaican government doesn't have government assistances like the US has, so the poorer people really need all the help they can get.) But, those two ministries and all the other ministries are based out of their own church, so if you're on the Main Line (the area where the middle-upper and upper-upper class like to live), but want to help people with sexual addictions, you probably want to help through that one ministry from the massive church. Even if you want to start one for your church, where better to learn how to do it than an already-proven ministry?
What if you don't know that ministry exists? Starting from scratch takes a long time, and that ministry is so established it has all the degreed people, counselors, and avenues needed to distribute the food to those who can't cook for themselves anymore.
That's what my job was. My little group had a newsletter that went out to all the different churches to let the people in the congregation know where to go to help out with where God placed their hearts for ministry. I don't know if it's a gift, but I have the background, the degree, and the passion to write, so I was the one who gathered the info, did the interviews, and then wrote the story for the newsletter. (The two guys were the smart ones who knew which church had which ministry, who to contact, what they needed, and then knew the elders to talk to to know we existed. I was new Presbyterian, so I really knew nothing about any of it.)
One talent I don't have is public speaking. (Girl. Presbyterian, so what were the chances of me speaking in front of a congregation? I thought I was safe. lol) Ends up, they made me do that too on occasion. Give a talk about who we are and what we were up to either before the service or before the sermon.
Just because my denom aren't into women pastors doesn't mean we women are silent, even during service. Just during the sermon, in which case, so are the guys.
Funny though. I became friends with the women who ran the Disability ministry. We share the writing skill set. (We also share opinionated very well. lol) She's as terrified as I am to speak in public, but she got stuck with that job once a month, at least. Not only did she have to go around to all 17 churches in the area to get people thinking about what disabled people need and how they can establish their own disability ministry, she became nationally known, so had to go to the big presbytery gathering once a year. And then different churches across the country invited her to go to their church.
(She has Lyme Disease, so is confined to a wheelchair, and can become too weak to do anything for weeks at a time, so I have always been impressed she had the get-up-and-go to get-up-and-went. Plus her newsletter tended to be 10-15 pages long, and she did all that on her own. Well, maybe her husband helped stuff envelopes, but we're talking 10's of 1000s of envelopes!)
This explains something of why I keep saying pastors is one thing, but any other ministry is fine. We women aren't second class citizens. There's only one thing we can't do -- govern men.
As for the way I see it, haven't I already covered that? I just reread how I explained our governing system in my denom.
I was a part of Mercy Ministries, which was a title given (we're big into naming and giving titles to stuff lol) for the small group of us who kept open communications among the different ministries within the local Presbyteries. (The "local presbytery," in my case, are all the within-our-branch-of-Presbyterianism in the Greater Philadelphia area churches. Something like 6-9 million people live in or around Philly, so the local presby covered 17 churches -- back then -- in southeastern PA and southwestern NJ. One is massive, but it was broken up into five home churches so people get to know others in their area in the church and city. About a dozen are normal sized, establish churches. The rest are church plantings, so small and either growing or not, but they are firmly planted, so most grow and remain.) So, the massive one has a bunch of ministries going on that have grown big enough that some of them are they're their own non-profit. (My personal favorite is one that helps people with sexual addiction problems. Anyone from people who hop from bed to bed, to people caught up in the LBGT community -- even to giving people with AIDs food, companionship, and the gospel -- to people caught in the loop of masterbating.) But the normal sized churches have their own ministries too. I remember the one in NJ had a group of teens who worked all the school year to raise money to spend 2-3 weeks in Jamaica helping the needy down there. (The Jamaican government doesn't have government assistances like the US has, so the poorer people really need all the help they can get.) But, those two ministries and all the other ministries are based out of their own church, so if you're on the Main Line (the area where the middle-upper and upper-upper class like to live), but want to help people with sexual addictions, you probably want to help through that one ministry from the massive church. Even if you want to start one for your church, where better to learn how to do it than an already-proven ministry?
What if you don't know that ministry exists? Starting from scratch takes a long time, and that ministry is so established it has all the degreed people, counselors, and avenues needed to distribute the food to those who can't cook for themselves anymore.
That's what my job was. My little group had a newsletter that went out to all the different churches to let the people in the congregation know where to go to help out with where God placed their hearts for ministry. I don't know if it's a gift, but I have the background, the degree, and the passion to write, so I was the one who gathered the info, did the interviews, and then wrote the story for the newsletter. (The two guys were the smart ones who knew which church had which ministry, who to contact, what they needed, and then knew the elders to talk to to know we existed. I was new Presbyterian, so I really knew nothing about any of it.)
One talent I don't have is public speaking. (Girl. Presbyterian, so what were the chances of me speaking in front of a congregation? I thought I was safe. lol) Ends up, they made me do that too on occasion. Give a talk about who we are and what we were up to either before the service or before the sermon.
Just because my denom aren't into women pastors doesn't mean we women are silent, even during service. Just during the sermon, in which case, so are the guys.
Funny though. I became friends with the women who ran the Disability ministry. We share the writing skill set. (We also share opinionated very well. lol) She's as terrified as I am to speak in public, but she got stuck with that job once a month, at least. Not only did she have to go around to all 17 churches in the area to get people thinking about what disabled people need and how they can establish their own disability ministry, she became nationally known, so had to go to the big presbytery gathering once a year. And then different churches across the country invited her to go to their church.
(She has Lyme Disease, so is confined to a wheelchair, and can become too weak to do anything for weeks at a time, so I have always been impressed she had the get-up-and-go to get-up-and-went. Plus her newsletter tended to be 10-15 pages long, and she did all that on her own. Well, maybe her husband helped stuff envelopes, but we're talking 10's of 1000s of envelopes!)
This explains something of why I keep saying pastors is one thing, but any other ministry is fine. We women aren't second class citizens. There's only one thing we can't do -- govern men.
D
I honestly don't see how your response had anything to do with what you included in my quote, I don't see why you're telling me this, since I'm against women pastors too, and, honestly? I'm a little bit older than you so remember what church was 30-40 years ago. I don't see that anything has changed since then.
(And I have no idea what timespirit means.)
(And I have no idea what timespirit means.)
D
First, standing in front of people only merely is "almost distressing?" I almost ran away at my own wedding when I got to the back of the church with Dad and everyone turned around to look at me! (Never imagined that moment, or we would have eloped. lol) I'm terrified if more than two people look at me. So, I'm very impressed your only almost distressed!
Second, trying to avoid doing something out of your comfort zone is arguing with God? Every fiber of my being would be shouting in my head to tell me not to go back to that woman during service. It's just not "normal" and people might look at me. That's me arguing with me. Me arguing with God is more vulnerable than that. (He doesn't yell back. Very disturbing to me. It makes walking back to sit next to a crying woman feel like I'm in my pajamas at home in comparison.)
Second, trying to avoid doing something out of your comfort zone is arguing with God? Every fiber of my being would be shouting in my head to tell me not to go back to that woman during service. It's just not "normal" and people might look at me. That's me arguing with me. Me arguing with God is more vulnerable than that. (He doesn't yell back. Very disturbing to me. It makes walking back to sit next to a crying woman feel like I'm in my pajamas at home in comparison.)
D
i think i found a solution.
those who believe a woman shouldn't teach, preach, or lead - attend a local assembly that believes the same.
those who believe a woman can teach, preach, or lead - attend a local assembly that believes the same.
yay!!!! lol
those who believe a woman shouldn't teach, preach, or lead - attend a local assembly that believes the same.
those who believe a woman can teach, preach, or lead - attend a local assembly that believes the same.
yay!!!! lol
Got any peanut M&M's yet? (I went grocery shopping today and almost bought some, just because we've been talking about them. I'm diabetic, so I didn't. The only reason. lol)
Perchance is this the moment when two sides can agree?
M
i think i found a solution.
those who believe a woman shouldn't teach, preach, or lead - attend a local assembly that believes the same.
those who believe a woman can teach, preach, or lead - attend a local assembly that believes the same.
yay!!!! lol
those who believe a woman shouldn't teach, preach, or lead - attend a local assembly that believes the same.
those who believe a woman can teach, preach, or lead - attend a local assembly that believes the same.
yay!!!! lol
Also make sure it is mandatory to serve up M & Ms lol
