Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead

There's no maybe to it. And he will never acknowledge the obvious similarity.

I don't like absolutes unless we're referring to God.

Give the man a chance.

I am not going to talk about someone's belief about gnostics...lol...gnostic belief has nothing to do with what grace believers believe....both of them have been told by many on here the difference but they refuse to see it.he is just "baiting"....

This is the last I'm going to post on this ..I am not falling for the "baiting"......so I am just leaving them be...

I'm only responding to this out of respect for you......

I will speak with them directly once I see their repentance.....these endless back and forth situations we have all been doing with them for months now....

I for one am distancing myself from their behavior of name calling, slander, and malice..,..you have seen them in action today....it's the best way to handle this situation...The Lord has everything under control. His gospel of the grace of Christ will be preached no matter what happens....of that we rejoice in every situation.... ....All is well!!!

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

So, to satisfy FreeNChrist (et al) -

Can we agree that those who have "tasted" do not truly believe, as opposed to those who have "swallowed" (drank) and truly believe?

The moment we believe, we are saved instantly. As for those who apostatize, they never truly believed.

- would become -

The moment we drink (swallow), we are saved instantly. As for those who apostatize, they only ever tasted.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If a person is not doing the will of God, they never truly believed.

Your verse above supports my statement as well as Matt 7:22-23.

Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

I think it is quite clear. they were never saved

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This is the point where you and I seem to have slightly different understandings. Someone can believe they believe until they're blue in the face (and hair) and they can have a television preaching ministry. They might be baptising and outwardly doing things which appear to be good works to man--but God sees the heart.

God knows if they truly believed or not. At Judgement, God will separate the wheat from the chaff -- the chaff are those who appeared they believed, but did not.

What distinguishes the tares from the wheat is that the latter do the will of GOD. If someone truly believes then reverts to not doing the will of GOD, they will become tares. Salvation is determined by obedience, not nature.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There's no maybe to it. And he will never acknowledge the obvious similarity.

of course, HRFTD is omniscient, and knows everyone..

 

[FreeNChrist]

What distinguishes the tares from the wheat is that the latter do the will of GOD. If someone truly believes then reverts to not doing the will of GOD, they will become tares. Salvation is determined by obedience, not nature.

Like I said, welcome to the real world, PeacefulWarrior.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's your opinion, and even if true, what relevance does it have? The people in that verse were very surprised that they were being rejected, so they very obviously thought that they were doing the will of GOD. What practical relevance does the claim that they never truly believed have? They believed they believed.

yeah they were surprised.

They worked, And thought they were saved, and found out God NEVER KNEW THEM AT ALL.

That's not Gnosticism, or licentious or hypergrace,

That's legalists finding out their works were useless.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, to satisfy FreeNChrist (et al) -

Can we agree that those who have "tasted" do not truly believe, as opposed to those who have "swallowed" (drank) and truly believe?

The moment we believe, we are saved instantly. As for those who apostatize, they never truly believed.

- would become -

The moment we drink (swallow), we are saved instantly. As for those who apostatize, they only ever tasted.

In John 6, Jesus used the term gnaw, chew..

It is deeper than taste, People can taste the gospel and never be saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What distinguishes the tares from the wheat is that the latter do the will of GOD. If someone truly believes then reverts to not doing the will of GOD, they will become tares. Salvation is determined by obedience, not nature.

And HRFTD will ignore you if you claim he teaches works..

 

[Gr8grace]

That's what I would call selective, partial exegesis. Reading into it what you want to see. That verse is conditioned by this one.

​“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21​

Look at the next verse..........

New American Standard Bible
"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

On that day/judgment day............everyone who is standing in front of Him being judged is going to call Him Lord Lord........and they are pleading their case for their SELF RIGHTEOUS works.

Because they never did the will of the father in time/physical life Acts 16:31 or John 6:40.

New American Standard Bible
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

On that day/judgement day........

King James Bible
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

concerning apostacy

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[SUP][c][/SUP] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. [SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

 

[Grace777x70]

The tares are the sons of the evil one...satan....and there are the sons of the kingdom.

Matthew 13:37-40 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] And He said, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,
[SUP]38 [/SUP] and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;[SUP]39 [/SUP] and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.
[SUP]40 [/SUP] "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.

Then the angels throw out the tares that cause stumbling blocks and commit lawlessness and then this happens...the righteous ones shine forth to see who they are and are not the tares.
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness ( believers in Christ ) and lawlessness, ( unbelievers ) or what fellowship has light with darkness?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

What distinguishes the tares from the wheat is that the latter do the will of GOD. If someone truly believes then reverts to not doing the will of GOD, they will become tares. Salvation is determined by obedience, not nature.

One cannot truly believe and then revert. For, if they revert they never truly believed.

Salvation is determined by true belief (faith), not by obedience.

This is how I see it.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I see obedience as a byproduct of true faith.

 

[thepsalmist]

we would pretty much need an open minded moderator to ask everyone. Maybe open another thread. instead of taking this one up..

I have to leave shortly. But I would love the challenge of someone asking us what we actually believe, instead of all the propaganda.

I'm going to open a thread just for that Posters will NOT be allowed to critique or argue. Everyone will have a chance to write up a dissertation on their full belief. Period.

Would you all be interested in such a thread?

If I get 6 likes I will do it.

 

[Gr8grace]

So, to satisfy FreeNChrist (et al) -

Can we agree that those who have "tasted" do not truly believe, as opposed to those who have "swallowed" (drank) and truly believe?

The moment we believe, we are saved instantly. As for those who apostatize, they never truly believed.

- would become -

The moment we drink (swallow), we are saved instantly. As for those who apostatize, they only ever tasted.

I disagree. A believer can slip into apostasy. And stay there and will be saved.

we are just getting bamboozled about what apostasy looks like.

I will be frank..........Herose and Peter are our poster boys of what real Apostasy looks like. It is not some freak who is foaming at the mouth, naked, and peeing on a cross.

And if we stop and think about it, probably 70 or up to 90% of Christians think like them in todays world..........so we would be eliminating A LOT of people from salvation if one can't go into apostasy as a believer.


I believe our poster boys of apostasy on CC are probably saved, but they have strayed WAY far from the truth and Christ's finished work on the Cross.


This is serious business. It is salvation for those who are not saved and it is spiritual growth and advancement in the Christian way of life at stake.

 

[phil36]

I'm going to open a thread just for that Posters will NOT be allowed to critique or argue. Everyone will have a chance to write up a dissertation on their full belief. Period.

Would you all be interested in such a thread?

If I get 6 likes I will do it.

Mines is easy

 

[Grace777x70]

Mines is easy


View attachment 146218

LOL..good humour Phil!... ( I put a "u" in humor for the proper English )...psst..I heard that "certain flowers" are error according to some......

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I disagree. A believer can slip into apostasy. And stay there and will be saved.

we are just getting bamboozled about what apostasy looks like.

I will be frank..........Herose and Peter are our poster boys of what real Apostasy looks like. It is not some freak who is foaming at the mouth, naked, and peeing on a cross.

And if we stop and think about it, probably 70 or up to 90% of Christians think like them in todays world..........so we would be eliminating A LOT of people from salvation if one can't go into apostasy as a believer.


I believe our poster boys of apostasy on CC are probably saved, but they have strayed WAY far from the truth and Christ's finished work on the Cross.


This is serious business. It is salvation for those who are not saved and it is spiritual growth and advancement in the Christian way of life at stake.

Did Peter Stop Believing in his heart or did he simply deny his association with Christ for fear of being killed?

 

[thepsalmist]

I'm going to open a thread just for that Posters will NOT be allowed to critique or argue. Everyone will have a chance to write up a dissertation on their full belief. Period.

Would you all be interested in such a thread?

If I get 6 likes I will do it.

So far PW, EG and Phil36 are on board.
I'd really like to see Peter Jens, HRFTD, freenchrist, gr8grace and Grace777x70 join in as well... actually most everyone that keeps this thread alive and kicking ...