CONFESSING YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS PLEASES GOD

[valiant]

Can you give us a specific example? You've said this like 10000 times in general terms. Let's start with one specific example to see if you are telling the truth.

'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)

 

[Grace777x70]

Ah, we've seen something even more confusing than that!
Peter and HeRose have both said to me that I am believing right but you aren't, even though I was just saying what you were saying but in different phrasing. THAT'S the MOST confusing part of it.

I hear you.....I just pray for them and leave them in the hands of the Lord. He will be faithful to them...I try to avoid the merry-go-round with the continuous "baiting"....I am definitely not about to "play" any more....it just becomes a revolving door and we are left in the same boat every time....it's useless and a waste of time....I just give the scriptures out and leave it in the hands of the Lord.....we trust in Him and the Holy Spirit to do His work in all of us!...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I understand your point, but is is a mis-perception on your part. I having been engaging some of these folks every day for several months. I know what some of them believe because they either have said so or have posted some video of one of their teachers. They are free at any time to say that what I have described is not what they believe, and then state what they believe. Instead they either say nothing, or simply say that I and others are false accusers. So there's really only one course of action that they've left open for me, and that is to continually expose the falsehoods.

Maybe we could all agree to try again. To listen carefully. To try to understand what each other is saying. To not think we know all of what someone thinks before we even get started trying again.

 

[roaringkitten]

Some Scriptures to edify:

"God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord." 1 Cor 1:9

" Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death" Philippians 3:8-10

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I hear you.....I just pray for them and leave them in the hands of the Lord. He will be faithful to them...I try to avoid the merry-go-round with the continuous "baiting"....I am definitely not about to "play" any more....it just becomes a revolving door and we are left in the same boat every time....it's useless and a waste of time....I just give the scriptures out and leave it in the hands of the Lord.....we trust in Him and the Holy Spirit to do His work in all of us!...

I have to say that I kind of understand where HeRose is at and where he's coming from. Here's why.
I had written off all televangelists. I did this because I think, I personally believe, that some of them are real snakes. I do not like a lot of them. Some of them aren't that bad. They DO help people to our Lord. And while I've heard them say some things that were a bit sideways, and I didn't want to hear any more, I can't say that what they said about a certain vs and how they interpreted it was going to kill any one.

But I saw so many of them looking for the latest idea and one of them would come up with the latest idea, and then they would all start preaching that same thing. I heard them say things like...oh I almost can't say it because it makes me nauseous...like, if you sow a seed of 50 dollars, you'll get back 5,000 dollars because that's how the "law of seedtime and harvest works." Or one of them was selling anointed prayer shawls because they personally prayed over and touched every single shawl. Then they all would start selling prayer shawls and blankets like this.

So I met you in here, Grace777, and I could see so much fruit in you. All of the things I was told to look for to know if you were my brother was there. You were gentle, patient, long-suffering, refused to revile back, full of joy, meek, kind. So I knew you were my brother. I watched you have a consistency of all these good things. You're not perfect, none of us are, but I saw a consistency.

So you posted an article or a video, don't remember, and I wanted to read or watch it. So I went to the site and saw that the teacher goes on tours with Hinn, who I think is a snake. Not from anyone saying he is but from watching his show for myself over a period of time. So I just ran right back out of the website as fast as I ran in.

But it really nagged at my mind. But I couldn't make sense of it. On the one hand, I clearly saw the fruit that I clearly saw. On the other hand, I am so against Hinns teaching that I refuse to listen to anyone who has anything to do with him.

The next time you put up a video, I went to watch. It was Prince. He was speaking the truth and I darn well knew it. He was preaching the Good News. I watched more of his videos. I've found some interpretations I slightly disagree with but they wouldn't kill any one. And actually, when I listen through to the end, my mind is sometimes changed because he explains what he says and means and I find I was only THINKING I understood what he was saying.

And I don't have to completely agree with every single thing. I gave Prince a chance because of what I saw in YOU, Grace777. I went into it with REAL doubt, expecting to hear all the crappity doo I'd heard from other tv preachers. And I didn't hear it. So I was surprised and very pleased and also blessed by hearing him.

So that's why I do understand where HeRose is coming from.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

(Crappity doo isn't a real word. I was speaking in tongues.)

 

[Grace777x70]

I have to say that I kind of understand where HeRose is at and where he's coming from. Here's why.
I had written off all televangelists. I did this because I think, I personally believe, that some of them are real snakes. I do not like a lot of them. Some of them aren't that bad. They DO help people to our Lord. And while I've heard them say some things that were a bit sideways, and I didn't want to hear any more, I can't say that what they said about a certain vs and how they interpreted it was going to kill any one.

But I saw so many of them looking for the latest idea and one of them would come up with the latest idea, and then they would all start preaching that same thing. I heard them say things like...oh I almost can't say it because it makes me nauseous...like, if you sow a seed of 50 dollars, you'll get back 5,000 dollars because that's how the "law of seedtime and harvest works." Or one of them was selling anointed prayer shawls because they personally prayed over and touched every single shawl. Then they all would start selling prayer shawls and blankets like this.

So I met you in here, Grace777, and I could see so much fruit in you. All of the things I was told to look for to know if you were my brother was there. You were gentle, patient, long-suffering, refused to revile back, full of joy, meek, kind. So I knew you were my brother. I watched you have a consistency of all these good things. You're not perfect, none of us are, but I saw a consistency.

So you posted an article or a video, don't remember, and I wanted to read or watch it. So I went to the site and saw that the teacher goes on tours with Hinn, who I think is a snake. Not from anyone saying he is but from watching his show for myself over a period of time. So I just ran right back out of the website as fast as I ran in.

But it really nagged at my mind. But I couldn't make sense of it. On the one hand, I clearly saw the fruit that I clearly saw. On the other hand, I am so against Hinns teaching that I refuse to listen to anyone who has anything to do with him.

The next time you put up a video, I went to watch. It was Prince. He was speaking the truth and I darn well knew it. He was preaching the Good News. I watched more of his videos. I've found some interpretations I slightly disagree with but they wouldn't kill any one. And actually, when I listen through to the end, my mind is sometimes changed because he explains what he says and means and I find I was only THINKING I understood what he was saying.

And I don't have to completely agree with every single thing. I gave Prince a chance because of what I saw in YOU, Grace777. I went into it with REAL doubt, expecting to hear all the crappity doo I'd heard from other tv preachers. And I didn't hear it. So I was surprised and very pleased and also blessed by hearing him.

So that's why I do understand where HeRose is coming from.

I agree that there are some on TV that are off and as I said I don't agree with everything anyone says. I believe the Lord is cleaning up some of the nonsense out there and some of them start out good but can also get off on a tangent. The Lord will deal with that....

I remember that it was Rick Renner that you liked and you went to his site and he was going to be at a conference where Copeland was going to be at too. It wasn't Hinn.

Most people initially get false assumptions about grace teaching....they think we are wanting to sin..etc. They simply don't understand what is being said.

I had the exact same thoughts running through my mind about 1 John 1:9 but not about the other aspects of grace. But in due time the Lord showed me the truth about it. When I first heard Prince talk about 1 John 1:9...I said..he is a heretic and would not listen to him....so the Lord circumvented Prince and showed me through other multiple teachers combined with my own study of the scriptures.

One thing that does happen is that people will call others a heretic, satanic, false teachers..etc..and various other names just because they believe something different then what they do on a subject. This is your classic heretic hunter M/O to attack personally the person when the scriptures given refute their lies.

It's ok for people to have a different view point on subjects and sometimes we just need to agree to disagree and have respect for each other. This is how we are to be with each other in the body of Christ.

I find the same thing happening to me as you did when I listen to the "whole" message that is being said and I then understand what is meant when someone says something. This happens when you see what is actually being said in context.

When I see such blatant deceitfulness happening like this garbage video " Prince introducing Mother Grace doctrine. " ...and then adding their own words - "god is mother"..- I can see the malice and slander happening. It's ungodly and we are told by scripture to avoid men like this.

I believe all of us have to be open to what the Lord is showing us at all times and through whoever He wants to use to do it too.....

I know exactly how I am to be in this forum toward others and by His grace I will endeavor to walk in that. I trust Him. He will be faithful to all of us...

 

[FreeNChrist]

The message of God's grace alone is what cuts across all denominational and ecclesiastical boundaries, as we see right here on this forum. Many different people from many different backgrounds and worship styles, coming together, one in spirit, by the awesome message of God's grace.

 

[roaringkitten]

"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." 1 Cor 1:10

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I agree that there are some on TV that are off and as I said I don't agree with everything anyone says. I believe the Lord is cleaning up some of the nonsense out there and some of them start out good but can also get off on a tangent. The Lord will deal with that....

I remember that it was Rick Renner that you liked and you went to his site and he was going to be at a conference where Copeland was going to be at too. It wasn't Hinn.

Most people initially get false assumptions about grace teaching....they think we are wanting to sin..etc. They simply don't understand what is being said.

I had the exact same thoughts running through my mind about 1 John 1:9 but not about the other aspects of grace. But in due time the Lord showed me the truth about it. When I first heard Prince talk about 1 John 1:9...I said..he is a heretic and would not listen to him....so the Lord circumvented Prince and showed me through other multiple teachers combined with my own study of the scriptures.

One thing that does happen is that people will call others a heretic, satanic, false teachers..etc..and various other names just because they believe something different then what they do on a subject. This is your classic heretic hunter M/O to attack personally the person when the scriptures given refute their lies.

It's ok for people to have a different view point on subjects and sometimes we just need to agree to disagree and have respect for each other. This is how we are to be with each other in the body of Christ.

I find the same thing happening to me as you did when I listen to the "whole" message that is being said and I then understand what is meant when someone says something. This happens when you see what is actually being said in context.

When I see such blatant deceitfulness happening like this garbage video " Prince introducing Mother Grace doctrine. " ...and then adding their own words - "god is mother"..- I can see the malice and slander happening. It's ungodly and we are told by scripture to avoid men like this.

I believe all of us have to be open to what the Lord is showing us at all times and through whoever He wants to use to do it too.....

I know exactly how I am to be in this forum toward others and by His grace I will endeavor to walk in that. I trust Him. He will be faithful to all of us...

Gaaah! Don't get me started on Copeland either!
Though...Saul DID become Paul...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

The message of God's grace alone is what cuts across all denominational and ecclesiastical boundaries, as we see right here on this forum. Many different people from many different backgrounds and worship styles, coming together, one in spirit, by the awesome message of God's grace.

Amen and amen.
Had to repost this since it would only let me like it one time.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

When I see such blatant deceitfulness happening like this garbage video " Prince introducing Mother Grace doctrine. " ...and then adding their own words - "god is mother"..- I can see the malice and slander happening. It's ungodly and we are told by scripture to avoid men like this.

You really are a passive-aggressive accuser. The godly thing to do would have been for you to ask me why I used that term. Instead you opted to remain quiet and not seek clarity, IMO because you relished the opportunity to accuse.

I said GOD the mother because Prince first said GOD the father, then Mother grace. And I know full well that both you and he believe that grace is GOD. Therefore, GOD the mother was not a stretch, but basically the logical conclusion.

 

[Gr8grace]

The message of God's grace alone is what cuts across all denominational and ecclesiastical boundaries, as we see right here on this forum. Many different people from many different backgrounds and worship styles, coming together, one in spirit, by the awesome message of God's grace.

This is one thing that I am still trying to come to grips with.

Just about every charismatic or prosperity church or ones who lean towards that theology that I have known, almost invariably believe in loss of salvation and working for salvation.

Lots of solid Grace teachings coming from "charismatic" leaning folks.......I am not use to that. It is great though!

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Ugh. Seriously... what is between you two? Nevermind.

More importantly, why don't ya both do better moving forward? Pick a date and "start over".

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You really are a passive-aggressive accuser. The godly thing to do would have been for you to ask me why I used that term. Instead you opted to remain quiet and not seek clarity, IMO because you relished the opportunity to accuse.

I said GOD the mother because Prince first said GOD the father, then Mother grace. And I know full well that both you and he believe that grace is GOD. Therefore, GOD the mother was not a stretch, but basically the logical conclusion.

Honestly, I THINK grace777 was referring to the printed words that came at the end of that video clip and NOT to you personally.
He will have to say if that is true or not, but that's how I took what he was saying. It's in the words at the END of the video segment. I think you misunderstood...

 

[ladylynn]

"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." 1 Cor 1:10

What you posted here brought to mind a vs from Psalm 133

"Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity!" It is like the precious oil upon the head, coming down upon the beard,
Even Aaron's beard, Coming down upon the edge of his robes
It is like the dew of Hermon, Coming down upon the mountains of Zion;
For there the Lord commanded the blessing---Life forever

I'll bet it's even prettier in the Old English KingJames Version.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Whenever I hear that vs RK posted I think of the tower of babel and how he confused their language because they all spoke the same language and God said, oh no, now NOTHING will be impossible for them!

But I see us as a reverse of that, that when we all begin to speak the same language of the Spirit of grace, then NOTHING will be impossible for us, only this time, it will please God! And yep, the Holy Spirit just rose up in me strongly when I typed that!!

 

[JGIG]

I'm way late to this ballgame, but your error here was addressed days ago:

This is par for the name-it-claim false-grace scam. The bible nowhere says that we are the righteousness of GOD in Christ.

In fact, that is the exact opposite attitude we are to have. Christ alone is righteousness. The pharisee thanked GOD that he was righteous, but the one who was justified said:

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. Luke 18:13-14​

The false-grace scam is all about ignoring what we really are (sinners being saved through grace), and focusing only on the identity of what we want to be (righteousness of GOD). So in essence it promotes doing exactly what the pharisee did - The false-grace believer stood and prayed thus with himself, "God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men who are sin-concious or even as these legalists on CC who are condemned. I repent daily by focusing on my identity as the righteousness of GOD in Christ.

Way late to this thread, and just reading a bit before I get back on the road, but this is key in this conversation and if it has not yet been addressed directly (apologies if it has), it needs to be. That the gift of righteousness we receive from God IS God's righteousness has been made clear to you in another thread:

Another spiritual claim that you've made with NO Scriptural support, HRFTD. You have simply pulled that one right out of your . . . . . . . hat.

​

But now apart from the law
the righteousness of God
has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

This righteousness

​
is given

through faith in Jesus Christ

to all who believe.

(from Rom. 3)

It cannot get any clearer than that as to Whose righteousness we're given when we put our faith in Christ. That coupled with the 2 Cor. 5:21 passage doesn't mean that we might - like in maybe we could someday become - but that one of the reasons Christ did His Work was so that we would become the righteousness of God in Christ:

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made [g1096] the righteousness of God in him.​

Strong's G1096 - ginomai​

1. to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2. to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
   1. of events
3. to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
   1. of men appearing in public
4. to be made, finished
   1. of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5. to become, be made

It's like when I go to the grocery store so that I might buy some milk. I go in, I buy the milk, I come out - done deal.

YET AGAIN you are teaching completely contrary to Scripture and putting your OWN ideas out there, not the Truthful concepts that are clearly in Scripture.

I'm content to let God and the reader judge between us.

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

GOD treats us as if we are righteous and is making us righteous (in truth), but he nowhere says that we are righteous. Such an idea undermines the whole Christian faith.

I'm so ashamed of the Christians here who not speak out against this man's false witness that Matthew 6:9-15 is an old covenant prayer not meant for new covenant Christians. GOD will be judge.

Yet another area where you deviate from Christ and his Gospel. Scripture tells us that Christ is not ashamed to call us brothers:

11 For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers, 12 saying,

“I will tell of your name to my brothers;
in the midst of the congregation I will sing your praise.”


13 And again,

“I will put my trust in him.”


And again,

“Behold, I and the children God has given me.”


14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. 16 For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. 17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.


-JGIG

 

[PeterJens]

Walking with the Lord is always a walk of being careful, of having a weakness, or problem which can attract you in to another perspective on things.

So we are always sinners saved by grace, so for us to claim righteousness can easily become pride or self justification.
I am told constantly told I am believing I am righteous but falsely, because I am actually a hypocrite but not honest about it.

Now here people are saying they are not righteous in behaviour but it is given to them, so they should confess something they know is not true but imputed. Now it is odd that I do not claim righteousness or proclaim I am walking in, but that it is possible, but here are people saying they cannot have righteousness, yet confess as if they do.

There is a massive amount of irony here. I find it also seriously sad, when arguing something we are not commanded to do, and the opposite of what is wise, when pride is so easy to fall into and humbleness is something we are called to clothe ourselves in.

Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
col 3:12