CONFESSING YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS PLEASES GOD

[JGIG]

I have noticed a trend here. If a particular source comes out with a new version or way of expressing their theology, even if there is no scriptural support for it, it must be true.

To oppose this is now deemed as persecution, reviling and speaking evil.

You are now witnessing what they regard as perfection or the word of God in action, creating new insights into spiritual reality without regard to the Lord, His word or truth. It is they who now regard themselves superior over any issue they raise even if it is obviously wrong.

Grace Folk postings of contextual Scriptures:





PeterJens and RTFTD postings of contextual Scriptures:






Just an observation .

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

That's not accurate. Forensic justification/sanctification (GOD's work) is different than practical sanctification (GOD's/our work).

And your contextual Scriptural evidence for your statement above is . . . . ?????

-JGIG

 

[ladylynn]

I'm way late to this ballgame, but your error here was addressed days ago:



Way late to this thread, and just reading a bit before I get back on the road, but this is key in this conversation and if it has not yet been addressed directly (apologies if it has), it needs to be. That the gift of righteousness we receive from God IS God's righteousness has been made clear to you in another thread:

Another spiritual claim that you've made with NO Scriptural support, HRFTD. You have simply pulled that one right out of your . . . . . . . hat.

​

But now apart from the law
the righteousness of God
has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

This righteousness

​
is given

through faith in Jesus Christ

to all who believe.

(from Rom. 3)

It cannot get any clearer than that as to Whose righteousness we're given when we put our faith in Christ. That coupled with the 2 Cor. 5:21 passage doesn't mean that we might - like in maybe we could someday become - but that one of the reasons Christ did His Work was so that we would become the righteousness of God in Christ:

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made [g1096] the righteousness of God in him.​

Strong's G1096 - ginomai​

1. to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2. to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
   1. of events
3. to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
   1. of men appearing in public
4. to be made, finished
   1. of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5. to become, be made

It's like when I go to the grocery store so that I might buy some milk. I go in, I buy the milk, I come out - done deal.

YET AGAIN you are teaching completely contrary to Scripture and putting your OWN ideas out there, not the Truthful concepts that are clearly in Scripture.

I'm content to let God and the reader judge between us.

-JGIG

Re: CONFESSING YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS PLEASES GOD

Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead
GOD treats us as if we are righteous and is making us righteous (in truth), but he nowhere says that we are righteous. Such an idea undermines the whole Christian faith.

I'm so ashamed of the Christians here who not speak out against this man's false witness that Matthew 6:9-15 is an old covenant prayer not meant for new covenant Christians. GOD will be judge.




Yet another area where you deviate from Christ and his Gospel. Scripture tells us that Christ is not ashamed to call us brothers:

11 For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers, 12 saying,

“I will tell of your name to my brothers;
in the midst of the congregation I will sing your praise.”


13 And again,

“I will put my trust in him.”


And again,

“Behold, I and the children God has given me.”


14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. 16 For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. 17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.


-JGIG
​

Wowzoe JGIG. Just wanted to say - I APPROVE OF THIS MESSAGE.

Blessings and safe traveling on the road.

 

[JGIG]

Forensic justification/sanctification (GOD's work) - column 1
Practical sanctification (GOD's/our work) - column 2

View attachment 146376

I actually agree with that chart for the most part - but it in no way supports your theory of 'forensic' and 'practical' sanctification.

Scriptures please, which support your terminology.

-JGIG

 

[PeterJens]

You really are a passive-aggressive accuser. The godly thing to do would have been for you to ask me why I used that term. Instead you opted to remain quiet and not seek clarity, IMO because you relished the opportunity to accuse.

I said GOD the mother because Prince first said GOD the father, then Mother grace. And I know full well that both you and he believe that grace is GOD. Therefore, GOD the mother was not a stretch, but basically the logical conclusion.

Grace is mercy, giving people the opportunity to respond the Lords love, while still sinners. It defines Gods heart, looking to do the impossible in the face of the lostness of mankind.

Now rather than defend or justify the concept of legalism vs grace, which is a straw man argument, artificially created based on a distorted view of Gods law and the reason for giving the law, any who oppose them are just evil, lost, legalists, who are blind to accept the obvious. This obviousness is unclear, because one moment we really totally incapable of walking correctly and then the next, because we are born with a perfect spirit within we can walk righteously, but not really because righteousness is imputed.

But this is all ignored because those who oppose are just pharisees, even if they are not. If you oppose this theology and you are not a hypocrite, then that is impossible so these believers believe. So they are actually defining reality for themselves rather than listening to the testimony of fellow believers.

 

[Gr8grace]

Grace Folk postings of contextual Scriptures:


View attachment 146522




PeterJens and RTFTD postings of contextual Scriptures:


View attachment 146521



Just an observation .

-JGIG

Yeah, it fits. Even got the wrench out to stop that "nasty" water.

New American Standard Bible
but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."

King James Bible
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

 

[JGIG]

Wowzoe JGIG. Just wanted to say - I APPROVE OF THIS MESSAGE.

Blessings and safe traveling on the road.

Thanks, ladylynn. Gonna sign off now; gotta get going. Thanks for your prayers!

-JGIG

 

[PeterJens]

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
Matt 16:17

But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
Mat 13:16

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
Matt 7:24-25

The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.
John 3:35

I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts.
John 5:42

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.
John 8:42

The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.
John 10:17

 

[ladylynn]

[h=2]

Re: CONFESSING YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS PLEASES GOD[/h]

Originally Posted by JGIG
Grace Folk postings of contextual Scriptures:

PeterJens and RTFTD postings of contextual Scriptures:

Just an observation .

-JGIG



Yeah, it fits. Even got the wrench out to stop that "nasty" water.

New American Standard Bible
but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."

King James Bible
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.​

How did I miss this??? When did you first post this JGIG?? What an accurate word picture!!!!!! Thanks for reposting it Gr8grace. wow

 

[ladylynn]

Oh dear, now I see. You guys are posting faster than I can read... sorry for the duplicates!

 

[roaringkitten]

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor 2:12-14

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Walking with the Lord is always a walk of being careful, of having a weakness, or problem which can attract you in to another perspective on things.

So we are always sinners saved by grace, so for us to claim righteousness can easily become pride or self justification.
I am told constantly told I am believing I am righteous but falsely, because I am actually a hypocrite but not honest about it.

Now here people are saying they are not righteous in behaviour but it is given to them, so they should confess something they know is not true but imputed. Now it is odd that I do not claim righteousness or proclaim I am walking in, but that it is possible, but here are people saying they cannot have righteousness, yet confess as if they do.

There is a massive amount of irony here. I find it also seriously sad, when arguing something we are not commanded to do, and the opposite of what is wise, when pride is so easy to fall into and humbleness is something we are called to clothe ourselves in.

Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
col 3:12

It is impossible for Christ to be our righteousness and have that not transfer to our outside.
It begins inwardly, where our problem really is, but God won't be mocked by anyone - make no mistake, a righteous man does what is righteous.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is one thing that I am still trying to come to grips with.

Just about every charismatic or prosperity church or ones who lean towards that theology that I have known, almost invariably believe in loss of salvation and working for salvation.

Lots of solid Grace teachings coming from "charismatic" leaning folks.......I am not use to that. It is great though!

Just goes to prove you do not judge a person based on what they call themselves. But what they actually believe,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: CONFESSING YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS PLEASES GOD

Originally Posted by JGIG
Grace Folk postings of contextual Scriptures:​

If I may be granted the permission of using these word pictures.. And applying them with scripture.

The springs of living water, swelling up to eternal life. The water God gives, Which whoever drinks will never thirst again.
John 4:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 6: And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

PeterJens and RTFTD postings of contextual Scriptures:

The water (gospel) the world wants to give you, Which will cause you to thirst again.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again,

​

Oh and thanks to Gr8grace for also contributing!!

 

[ladylynn]

It is impossible for Christ to be our righteousness and have that not transfer to our outside.
It begins inwardly, where our problem really is, but God won't be mocked by anyone - make no mistake, a righteous man does what is righteous.

Here is a thought., God will never be mocked by the Christian. There is no way that can even happen.
When Jesus paid for our sins on the cross, He paid for them all. We were made 100% righteous IN Christ by His righteousness imputed to us. So if this individual is truly saved but has sinned., the blood has already paid for that sin so God will not be mocked, the payment has been made...the sentence of death WAS on us but when Jesus came He took our sin and paid for it in full.

So God's HOLY JUSTICE has been appeased by a HOLY payment we did not make. Something like in our human law system, if the payment has been made., there is no double jeopardy attached because the crime occurred and the debt was already paid. Justice has been served. amazing stuff.

Also, there is nothing in the Bible that says "practical righteousness" I've heard that term for years and it made righteousness some distant reality. But we have been given our righteous standing in Christ. We have and ARE the righteousness of God IN Christ now. Righteousness is 100% real now because it came from Jesus. (We have this treasure in earthen vessels). We have been given all we need pertaining to life and godliness. It's a matter of working it out of our lives with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.

The only thing that stops us from walking properly in Him and knowing the truth more clearly is a lack faith and knowledge of Him. We are told to grow in the GRACE and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ...for a reason. The remedy for not walking accordingly is available. His Word and His Spirit and hearing and hearing and hearing it daily allowing the Holy Spirit to change our minds. And it takes a work of the Holy Spirit. And time that we set aside to be available.

There is a growing deeper that occurs when the Holy Spirit gives revelation. It is His working that causes the Bible to come alive to our spirits. It's not a formula, it's a revelation of the Holy Spirit that gives the power and ability to do the will of God. It's not of the flesh but of the Spirit in the inner man.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

GM lynn!
Yep, yep, yep.
Was trying to address the mindset that thinks teaching grace means we can go on unchanged in any way whatsoever.
That doesn't happen.
I didn't mean that a person who had met Him would mock Him.

 

[ladylynn]

GM lynn!
Yep, yep, yep.
Was trying to address the mindset that thinks teaching grace means we can go on unchanged in any way whatsoever.
That doesn't happen.
I didn't mean that a person who had met Him would mock Him.

Yes I know sis, you were saying a person who has met Jesus will want to be like Jesus., he will want to change.,he won't want to sin. Amen.

your post also stirred a thought in me about something I'm learning these days (as so often the posts of fellow believers do here). More thoughts about Him and that is always a good thing to do to each other.

 

[roaringkitten]

Yes I know sis, you were saying a person who has met Jesus will want to be like Jesus., he will want to change.,he won't want to sin. Amen.

your post also stirred a thought in me about something I'm learning these days (as so often the posts of fellow believers do here). More thoughts about Him and that is always a good thing to do to each other.

Good points! Saul met Jesus on the road to Damascus(Acts 9) This is a perfect example of someone, who saw the gospel-Jesus, received the grace of God, and went on to be a great minister/preacher of Him! He didn't see it as a license for sin! So many people do not understand the grace of God, and continue to say we teach a license to sin, but nothing could be further from the truth!

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Rom 6:1-2

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Good points! Saul met Jesus on the road to Damascus(Acts 9) This is a perfect example of someone, who saw the gospel-Jesus, received the grace of God, and went on to be a great minister/preacher of Him! He didn't see it as a license for sin! So many people do not understand the grace of God, and continue to say we teach a license to sin, but nothing could be further from the truth!

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Rom 6:1-2

This is because they are in works and don't yet realize it. They still think they owe God something other than praise and the obedience of faith.
They don't understand that where it all occurs is inward because that's where it all springs from.
This is how they can see someone displaying fruits like kindness, patience, refusing to revile back, love, joy, etc., and can think they don't know God but can see someone being very ugly and mean and think that because their doctrine matches up, they DO know God.

I think they don't yet realize the utter love and faithfulness of God, to do what He has said concerning us.

 

[PeterJens]

It is impossible for Christ to be our righteousness and have that not transfer to our outside.
It begins inwardly, where our problem really is, but God won't be mocked by anyone - make no mistake, a righteous man does what is righteous.

In this language you have jumped from who you are as an individual, to who Jesus is, and that becoming real for you.
This is mysticism. The language is saying there is no difference between Jesus's imputed righteousness and our failure, so we become righteous, ie the failure is ignored and its consequences without repentance, or healing or choice.

You then say this righteousness which is now your own behaviour works its way to our outside.
Well ofcourse if you actually become something different, then it is shown in your behaviour.

***"This is because they are in works and don't yet realize it. They still think they owe God something other than praise and the obedience of faith."***

I have been bought, I have nothing, I do not owe God, I am owned by God. There is nothing He does not deserve from me, and I will strive to follow Him in whatever way I can.

You do not understand where I am or how this life thing works. I am neither a robot, possessed, or somehow mystically made different. I have simply been redeemed, a new creation in christ, and I bow before my King. The fact you continually make me into something I am not, have not said or claimed worries me. For whatever reason my experience of Christ you cannot accept. I accept you have had a real spiritual encounter with the Lord, yet I am being more gracious to you, than you are to me.

To say I do not experience the living waters of life welling up within me, hurts me, because it denies the reality I rejoice in every day. Why do you want to discourage me and condemn me so badly, when I want you all to know His love and grace in your hearts, to know the victory He won on the cross and the everlasting life he brings to our souls.

Hallelujah and Praise to the King of Kings, because the Lamb who was slain is counted worthy to open the seals.