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C
I have a Kindle and I use it because I can get electronic books cheaper than printed books and because I ran out of room on my bookshelf. It has limitations though because I can't just thumb through it. It also doesn't have search features. I still prefer printed books although I have the kindle app on my phone. It does rescue me because some people started preaching heresy and I was able to instantly get a book. I take my kindle on vacation so I can take a number of books with me.
As far as women worship leaders, I am not sure the Bible really addresses that. I get offended when I saw youtube videos referring to two women singers as worship pastors though.
As far as women worship leaders, I am not sure the Bible really addresses that. I get offended when I saw youtube videos referring to two women singers as worship pastors though.
C
(Closest I could find to an attaboy back-pat.)
Been bugging you for a while, huh? Had to get it out?
No. Not being sarcastic. I honestly get the frustration. And it does build up for a while, before it bursts at the seams.
One problem. When we get like that, (and it is "we," since I've discovered the church we would belong to if we could go to church, to visit my hubby because we aren't members. He was in the hospital for months, now in rehab/nursing home, but is teetering -- being sent back to that hospital for a day or a few days more than once), even when are hearts are for doing something good for others, it's still biting us back. How? Where is our heart really, if we can only see what others aren't doing?
I really really get your frustrations on so many fronts, but how different are we if we take so much time to browbeat others when we could be using that time to help
As far as Bible studies, I think some people just go there to meet someone.
I thought people were looking at me instead of Jesus so I stopped going. My job is to point people to Jesus.
I was also annoyed that I went to a bIble study advertised to get those who left the church and they tried to stear me to attack the Bible and the faith so I told them I wouldn't be back and a man studying to be a pastor wanted me to help him study out of the blue and I was perplexed about the whole thing for various reasons.
D
I tend to pick my Bible study partners by who knows what a concordance is and can you argue over which is the best? (I don't really care about which you think is the best. I'm just finding out if you know there is a choice. lol) Then my next question has to do with who you think are good commentators.
If you can't answer those questions, I'm more likely to send you to a Bible Study with someone who does know, than study with you.
36 years ago, our pastor (the man who quit his electrical engineer job to take the position, and, no, he never took any classes in the Bible) gave a bible study on Bible aids. He couldn't pronounce concordance and was taught how to use one that week by someone else, so he could teach that class. (He never used one.) Little did he know, someone was listening -- my fiance at the time.
He bought our first Strong's. It wasn't our last Strong's. The only thing that saves our last Strong's is the Internet. (Why pick up a five pound book, when an index finger can open eSword? lol)
And several years later, because hubby studied, we left that church to find a church that does teach Bible -- instead of humanism self-help encouragement sermons.
The man who didn't study taught a man who loves to study. (Seven bookcases, and six of them are loaded with Bible study aids. I have two shelves on the seventh, so only buy books when I know I'll read them more than once. And I don't have to use my space for more study aids. We do share. It's not my fault he doesn't like how-to-write books, gardening and craft books, or MG and YA novels. lol)
If you can't answer those questions, I'm more likely to send you to a Bible Study with someone who does know, than study with you.
36 years ago, our pastor (the man who quit his electrical engineer job to take the position, and, no, he never took any classes in the Bible) gave a bible study on Bible aids. He couldn't pronounce concordance and was taught how to use one that week by someone else, so he could teach that class. (He never used one.) Little did he know, someone was listening -- my fiance at the time.
He bought our first Strong's. It wasn't our last Strong's. The only thing that saves our last Strong's is the Internet. (Why pick up a five pound book, when an index finger can open eSword? lol)
And several years later, because hubby studied, we left that church to find a church that does teach Bible -- instead of humanism self-help encouragement sermons.
The man who didn't study taught a man who loves to study. (Seven bookcases, and six of them are loaded with Bible study aids. I have two shelves on the seventh, so only buy books when I know I'll read them more than once. And I don't have to use my space for more study aids. We do share. It's not my fault he doesn't like how-to-write books, gardening and craft books, or MG and YA novels. lol)
C
I use commentaries by Dr. Oliver B. Greene, Dr. J. Vernon McGee and W.E. Vine and they are deceased so they are not going to lie to me on modern day issues which is very important because you cannot make mistakes and be seen as credible. I also use word studies by Dr. Kenneth Weust (NASB translator).
I am going to get a lot of opinions from the Bible Knowledge Commentary by the Dallas Theological Seminary.
I have the Theological Workbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) which is like reading a literal Bible sometimes.
I own Kittle's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (all 10 volumes) which requires some work because you need to know some Greek to use it.
I have the New International Commentary by F.F.Bruce.
I also have the Jamieson Faucet and Brown Commentary which I consult on Catholic issues.
I like Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible.
Keil and Delitsch were experts in the Hebrew.
Adam Clarke is a no~no because he didn't believe Jesus was eternally the son of God.
I have Vincent's word studies.
I have a lot of specialty books on the trinity.
I use Gleason Archers Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties and that has helped me with skeptics.
I also have Systematic Theology by Dr. Geisler (4 volumes) which gives me many opinions or facts on a subject.
I also have "Basic Theology" by Dr. Charles Ryrie.
I am going to get a lot of opinions from the Bible Knowledge Commentary by the Dallas Theological Seminary.
I have the Theological Workbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) which is like reading a literal Bible sometimes.
I own Kittle's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (all 10 volumes) which requires some work because you need to know some Greek to use it.
I have the New International Commentary by F.F.Bruce.
I also have the Jamieson Faucet and Brown Commentary which I consult on Catholic issues.
I like Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible.
Keil and Delitsch were experts in the Hebrew.
Adam Clarke is a no~no because he didn't believe Jesus was eternally the son of God.
I have Vincent's word studies.
I have a lot of specialty books on the trinity.
I use Gleason Archers Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties and that has helped me with skeptics.
I also have Systematic Theology by Dr. Geisler (4 volumes) which gives me many opinions or facts on a subject.
I also have "Basic Theology" by Dr. Charles Ryrie.
D
So you have Dead Guys too?
Adam Clarke is still cool for OT. He's my go-to guy on issues that I can tell were heavily debated back in his day. I get a kick out of it because nowadays no one even remembers the debates, once more knows they were debates worth having.
John Gill perplexes me? He's one of hubby's favorite Dead Guys, but most of what he teaches is what was taught from the older targums. So commentary about old commentaries when I really don't know the scholars' original positions (what they were trying to prove) to start investigating if I should or shouldn't agree with them? Doesn't work for me. Really doesn't work for me knowing a lot of the Pharisees wrote targums specifically to validate their reasons for breaking a commandment. (Like keep the Sabbath holy got down to if someone could tie a rope onto a container to pull up water from a well. They decided that wasn't kosher, but a woman tying up a girdle was on the Sabbath, so they tied girdles to the container to draw up water. That kind of thing.)
So targums make me nervous because the history of them has become so old we don't know much about the writers anymore to trust their purpose in writing. Yet, that's who Gills used all the time.
(Hubby's logic is men he trusts at studying the word trust Gill, so... I suspect it might be just that I wasn't there to hear that conversation to ask my questions, so I'm not anti-Gill. Just have my own reasons not to trust him.)
You do have quite a few names I don't recognize, but then again, I'm really lousy at remembering author names to begin with. If I saw the titles on the books and could pick up and feel the book, and then glimpse inside, I could probably tell you if we have it and if I've ever used it.
(Hubby likes studying. I don't. I just study anyway, 'cuz that's the only way I learn stuff about God. lol)
Adam Clarke is still cool for OT. He's my go-to guy on issues that I can tell were heavily debated back in his day. I get a kick out of it because nowadays no one even remembers the debates, once more knows they were debates worth having.
John Gill perplexes me? He's one of hubby's favorite Dead Guys, but most of what he teaches is what was taught from the older targums. So commentary about old commentaries when I really don't know the scholars' original positions (what they were trying to prove) to start investigating if I should or shouldn't agree with them? Doesn't work for me. Really doesn't work for me knowing a lot of the Pharisees wrote targums specifically to validate their reasons for breaking a commandment. (Like keep the Sabbath holy got down to if someone could tie a rope onto a container to pull up water from a well. They decided that wasn't kosher, but a woman tying up a girdle was on the Sabbath, so they tied girdles to the container to draw up water. That kind of thing.)
So targums make me nervous because the history of them has become so old we don't know much about the writers anymore to trust their purpose in writing. Yet, that's who Gills used all the time.
(Hubby's logic is men he trusts at studying the word trust Gill, so... I suspect it might be just that I wasn't there to hear that conversation to ask my questions, so I'm not anti-Gill. Just have my own reasons not to trust him.)
You do have quite a few names I don't recognize, but then again, I'm really lousy at remembering author names to begin with. If I saw the titles on the books and could pick up and feel the book, and then glimpse inside, I could probably tell you if we have it and if I've ever used it.
(Hubby likes studying. I don't. I just study anyway, 'cuz that's the only way I learn stuff about God. lol)
C
I like John Gill because he just seems to be right or spot on a lot but I don't usually goto him first. None of my commentaries will replace the word of God because commentaries should be a last resort when interpreting the word of God.
My pastor uses G. Campbell Morgan because he had a large revival and I have the works by bishop Ryle who started over 30 churches.
Wesley might be good if you want to defeat Calvinism but he isn't a priority for me right now. I have a booklet by Oliver B Greene against Calvinism that I really like.
I want to buy Phillip Schaff's History of the Christian Church and I want to buy the ante and Nicene fathers. I already have Philo and a history book by F.F.Bruce.
That reminds me. I have the book "What is an Evangelical?" By F.F. Bruce. Most people don't know.
I have a lot of books and sometimes I don't know what I have so I keep my own book list.
My pastor uses G. Campbell Morgan because he had a large revival and I have the works by bishop Ryle who started over 30 churches.
Wesley might be good if you want to defeat Calvinism but he isn't a priority for me right now. I have a booklet by Oliver B Greene against Calvinism that I really like.
I want to buy Phillip Schaff's History of the Christian Church and I want to buy the ante and Nicene fathers. I already have Philo and a history book by F.F.Bruce.
That reminds me. I have the book "What is an Evangelical?" By F.F. Bruce. Most people don't know.
I have a lot of books and sometimes I don't know what I have so I keep my own book list.
P
Have you seen this article? Women pastors - what does the Bible say?
Takes about 1-2 pages to do what has taken 90 here.
Takes about 1-2 pages to do what has taken 90 here.
C
I've read it but I'm still sticking to my statement.Not that I don't respect what the artical said it's just that I don't agree with it. I believe that the almighty sees leadership ability in women based on judges 4. Because Deborah not only judged but she had spiritual authority as a mouthpiece (prophetess) of the almighty and the people looked to her for both judgment and a word from Him.I think that Paul also recognized women's ability to labor in the gospel from what Philippians 4 says but I don't think that he would have allowed them to teach at the churches he set up. They could prophesy and pray as long as they were covered. It certainly is a hot topic and people are going to believe whatever they want .All I know is that Jesus Christ who is my personal savior never turned women away and He certainly got that Samaritan woman's attention and it was her testimony that led some including men to the lord John 4:39.
I haven't been posting on this thread, because I have posted over and over what the Greek actually says, and seriously, does anyone remember??
This really needs a new post, but I am loathe to open up another debate, although this technically should be another thread. And no Greek in here, but it should be considered!
10- Reasons Why Men Shouldn’t Be Ordained!
10. A man’s place is in the army.
9. The pastoral duties of men who have children might distract them from the responsibility of being a parent.
8. The physique of men indicates that they are more suited to such tasks as chopping down trees and wrestling mountain lions. It would be “unnatural” for them to do ministerial tasks.
7. Man was created before woman, obviously as a prototype. Thus, they represent an experiment rather than the crowning achievement of creation.
6. Men are too emotional to be priests or pastors. Their conduct at football and basketball games demonstrates this.
5. Some men are handsome, and this will distract women worshipers.
4. Pastors need to nurture their congregations. But this is not a traditional male role. Throughout history, women have been recognized as not only more skilled than men at nurturing, but also more fervently attracted to it. This makes them the obvious choice for ordination.
3. Men are prone to violence. No really masculine man wants to settle disputes except by fighting about them. Thus they would be poor role models as well as dangerously unstable in positions of leadership.
2. The New Testament tells us that Jesus was betrayed by a man. His lack of faith and ensuing punishment remind us of the subordinated position that all men should take.
1. Men can still be involved in church activities, even without being ordained. They can sweep sidewalks, repair the church roof, and perhaps even lead the song service on Father’s Day. By confining themselves to such traditional male roles, they can still be vitally important in the life of the church
This really needs a new post, but I am loathe to open up another debate, although this technically should be another thread. And no Greek in here, but it should be considered!
10- Reasons Why Men Shouldn’t Be Ordained!
10. A man’s place is in the army.
9. The pastoral duties of men who have children might distract them from the responsibility of being a parent.
8. The physique of men indicates that they are more suited to such tasks as chopping down trees and wrestling mountain lions. It would be “unnatural” for them to do ministerial tasks.
7. Man was created before woman, obviously as a prototype. Thus, they represent an experiment rather than the crowning achievement of creation.
6. Men are too emotional to be priests or pastors. Their conduct at football and basketball games demonstrates this.
5. Some men are handsome, and this will distract women worshipers.
4. Pastors need to nurture their congregations. But this is not a traditional male role. Throughout history, women have been recognized as not only more skilled than men at nurturing, but also more fervently attracted to it. This makes them the obvious choice for ordination.
3. Men are prone to violence. No really masculine man wants to settle disputes except by fighting about them. Thus they would be poor role models as well as dangerously unstable in positions of leadership.
2. The New Testament tells us that Jesus was betrayed by a man. His lack of faith and ensuing punishment remind us of the subordinated position that all men should take.
1. Men can still be involved in church activities, even without being ordained. They can sweep sidewalks, repair the church roof, and perhaps even lead the song service on Father’s Day. By confining themselves to such traditional male roles, they can still be vitally important in the life of the church
C
I haven't been posting on this thread, because I have posted over and over what the Greek actually says, and seriously, does anyone remember??
This really needs a new post, but I am loathe to open up another debate, although this technically should be another thread. And no Greek in here, but it should be considered!
10- Reasons Why Men Shouldn’t Be Ordained!
10. A man’s place is in the army.
9. The pastoral duties of men who have children might distract them from the responsibility of being a parent.
8. The physique of men indicates that they are more suited to such tasks as chopping down trees and wrestling mountain lions. It would be “unnatural” for them to do ministerial tasks.
7. Man was created before woman, obviously as a prototype. Thus, they represent an experiment rather than the crowning achievement of creation.
6. Men are too emotional to be priests or pastors. Their conduct at football and basketball games demonstrates this.
5. Some men are handsome, and this will distract women worshipers.
4. Pastors need to nurture their congregations. But this is not a traditional male role. Throughout history, women have been recognized as not only more skilled than men at nurturing, but also more fervently attracted to it. This makes them the obvious choice for ordination.
3. Men are prone to violence. No really masculine man wants to settle disputes except by fighting about them. Thus they would be poor role models as well as dangerously unstable in positions of leadership.
2. The New Testament tells us that Jesus was betrayed by a man. His lack of faith and ensuing punishment remind us of the subordinated position that all men should take.
1. Men can still be involved in church activities, even without being ordained. They can sweep sidewalks, repair the church roof, and perhaps even lead the song service on Father’s Day. By confining themselves to such traditional male roles, they can still be vitally important in the life of the church
This really needs a new post, but I am loathe to open up another debate, although this technically should be another thread. And no Greek in here, but it should be considered!
10- Reasons Why Men Shouldn’t Be Ordained!
10. A man’s place is in the army.
9. The pastoral duties of men who have children might distract them from the responsibility of being a parent.
8. The physique of men indicates that they are more suited to such tasks as chopping down trees and wrestling mountain lions. It would be “unnatural” for them to do ministerial tasks.
7. Man was created before woman, obviously as a prototype. Thus, they represent an experiment rather than the crowning achievement of creation.
6. Men are too emotional to be priests or pastors. Their conduct at football and basketball games demonstrates this.
5. Some men are handsome, and this will distract women worshipers.
4. Pastors need to nurture their congregations. But this is not a traditional male role. Throughout history, women have been recognized as not only more skilled than men at nurturing, but also more fervently attracted to it. This makes them the obvious choice for ordination.
3. Men are prone to violence. No really masculine man wants to settle disputes except by fighting about them. Thus they would be poor role models as well as dangerously unstable in positions of leadership.
2. The New Testament tells us that Jesus was betrayed by a man. His lack of faith and ensuing punishment remind us of the subordinated position that all men should take.
1. Men can still be involved in church activities, even without being ordained. They can sweep sidewalks, repair the church roof, and perhaps even lead the song service on Father’s Day. By confining themselves to such traditional male roles, they can still be vitally important in the life of the church
Awesome!
I haven't been posting on this thread, because I have posted over and over what the Greek actually says, and seriously, does anyone remember??
This really needs a new post, but I am loathe to open up another debate, although this technically should be another thread. And no Greek in here, but it should be considered!
10- Reasons Why Men Shouldn’t Be Ordained!
10. A man’s place is in the army.
9. The pastoral duties of men who have children might distract them from the responsibility of being a parent.
8. The physique of men indicates that they are more suited to such tasks as chopping down trees and wrestling mountain lions. It would be “unnatural” for them to do ministerial tasks.
7. Man was created before woman, obviously as a prototype. Thus, they represent an experiment rather than the crowning achievement of creation.
6. Men are too emotional to be priests or pastors. Their conduct at football and basketball games demonstrates this.
5. Some men are handsome, and this will distract women worshipers.
4. Pastors need to nurture their congregations. But this is not a traditional male role. Throughout history, women have been recognized as not only more skilled than men at nurturing, but also more fervently attracted to it. This makes them the obvious choice for ordination.
3. Men are prone to violence. No really masculine man wants to settle disputes except by fighting about them. Thus they would be poor role models as well as dangerously unstable in positions of leadership.
2. The New Testament tells us that Jesus was betrayed by a man. His lack of faith and ensuing punishment remind us of the subordinated position that all men should take.
1. Men can still be involved in church activities, even without being ordained. They can sweep sidewalks, repair the church roof, and perhaps even lead the song service on Father’s Day. By confining themselves to such traditional male roles, they can still be vitally important in the life of the church
This really needs a new post, but I am loathe to open up another debate, although this technically should be another thread. And no Greek in here, but it should be considered!
10- Reasons Why Men Shouldn’t Be Ordained!
10. A man’s place is in the army.
9. The pastoral duties of men who have children might distract them from the responsibility of being a parent.
8. The physique of men indicates that they are more suited to such tasks as chopping down trees and wrestling mountain lions. It would be “unnatural” for them to do ministerial tasks.
7. Man was created before woman, obviously as a prototype. Thus, they represent an experiment rather than the crowning achievement of creation.
6. Men are too emotional to be priests or pastors. Their conduct at football and basketball games demonstrates this.
5. Some men are handsome, and this will distract women worshipers.
4. Pastors need to nurture their congregations. But this is not a traditional male role. Throughout history, women have been recognized as not only more skilled than men at nurturing, but also more fervently attracted to it. This makes them the obvious choice for ordination.
3. Men are prone to violence. No really masculine man wants to settle disputes except by fighting about them. Thus they would be poor role models as well as dangerously unstable in positions of leadership.
2. The New Testament tells us that Jesus was betrayed by a man. His lack of faith and ensuing punishment remind us of the subordinated position that all men should take.
1. Men can still be involved in church activities, even without being ordained. They can sweep sidewalks, repair the church roof, and perhaps even lead the song service on Father’s Day. By confining themselves to such traditional male roles, they can still be vitally important in the life of the church
Hahahahaha !!