the two witnesses are God the Father and the Holy Spirit

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badger58

Guest
#21
Test all things, iron sharpens iron. It's never wrong to ask questions!
 

tinytom

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2016
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#22
So, your argument would be the same as the Pharisees argument about Jesus. Wouldn't it? I have studied this topic for over 25 years, and I still can't rule out this possibility. As God said to Sarah when she laughed at the idea of her having a son at her advanced age. IS ANYTHING TO HARD FOR THE LORD.
Does it say in the Bible, that the Holy Spirit will be taken away from the world, before the 2 witnesses show up? I should know this, but i don't right now, sorry, it's a big book with a lot to try to understand.
 

tinytom

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2016
114
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#23
I would suggest that one should study why Jesus Christ came in the flesh. If we have solid understanding of the God Man, and what Jesus Christ accomplished in His flesh(true humanity)...........we would understand that the Father nor the Holy Spirit would never put on flesh.


Jesus Christ is the unique person of the universe. His Glory is what he accomplished for mankind by making Himself a little lower than the angels for a time.

Jesus Christ, lowered Himself by becoming a man. Went to the Cross and died as a man for mankind. It is His Glory.
it does make sense that God the Father, becoming a man, and dying would really overshadow what Jesus sacrificed Himself for. And if anything, i can not see, God the Father doing anything to take away from that sacrifice.
 
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badger58

Guest
#24
I understand that there are some that think that what I am saying would over shadow or take away from Jesus' sacrifice. Not the case, I would not agree with anything of the sort. What I would assert is that most of us are, terribly ignorant of the spiritual meaning of the animal sacrificial system that God gave to the children of Israel. I'm certain that we can learn much from a bible study on this topic. It has been said that the heart of Judaism was the temple and the heart of the temple was the altar of sacrifice.
 
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badger58

Guest
#25
Doesn't it rouse your curiosity that the two witnesses lay dead 3 days and then resurrected on earth and then go to heaven, as Jesus did? The same sign by which Jesus gave to prove who he was. Hmm
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
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#26
Does it say in the Bible, that the Holy Spirit will be taken away from the world, before the 2 witnesses show up?
NO, IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T!

Acts 2v16-21,38,39 (with 1Cor 12v28, Eph 4v7-16) teaches that the baptism in the Holy Spirit, spiritual ministries and gifts are available throughout the WHOLE of the age of Grace right up until the Second Coming of Christ and especially more so during the Great Tribulation which is the period of three and a half years of tremedous evil upon earth (due to the mystery of iniquity working fully, and God's restraint taken off the Devil and the powers of darkness, 2Thess 2v6-8) immediately preceding the Lord's 2nd coming! Rev 11v3-6,10
 
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badger58

Guest
#27
NO, IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T!

Acts 2v16-21,38,39 (with 1Cor 12v28, Eph 4v7-16) teaches that the baptism in the Holy Spirit, spiritual ministries and gifts are available throughout the WHOLE of the age of Grace right up until the Second Coming of Christ and especially more so during the Great Tribulation which is the period of three and a half years of tremedous evil upon earth (due to the mystery of iniquity working fully, and God's restraint taken off the Devil and the powers of darkness, 2Thess 2v6-8) immediately preceding the Lord's 2nd coming! Rev 11v3-6,10
Look, I won't try to stifle your idea's, you should not try to stifle mine. I'm trying to have a conversation with critical thinking Christians who are able to have a disagreement over tough bible topics and not get huffy. If my questions offend anyone. I'm sorry. That is not my intent. Lets remember the golden rule. Ok, PEACE ON EARTH AND GOODWILL TOWARDS ALL MEN
 

tinytom

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2016
114
2
0
#28
NO, IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T!

Acts 2v16-21,38,39 (with 1Cor 12v28, Eph 4v7-16) teaches that the baptism in the Holy Spirit, spiritual ministries and gifts are available throughout the WHOLE of the age of Grace right up until the Second Coming of Christ and especially more so during the Great Tribulation which is the period of three and a half years of tremedous evil upon earth (due to the mystery of iniquity working fully, and God's restraint taken off the Devil and the powers of darkness, 2Thess 2v6-8) immediately preceding the Lord's 2nd coming! Rev 11v3-6,10
Thank you!
 

tinytom

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2016
114
2
0
#29
Look, I won't try to stifle your idea's, you should not try to stifle mine. I'm trying to have a conversation with critical thinking Christians who are able to have a disagreement over tough bible topics and not get huffy. If my questions offend anyone. I'm sorry. That is not my intent. Lets remember the golden rule. Ok, PEACE ON EARTH AND GOODWILL TOWARDS ALL MEN
There is a difference between idea's though. Some can be disproven quite easily, and it looks as though the Holy Spirit, is going to be busy during the tribulation. I've had many idea's or thoughts of how things might be, but a search of the Scripture can prove very enlightening.

Also, I try different types of Christian religions, I have been to a Seventh day Adventist church many times, Freewill Baptist, Southern Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, and I am a member of the Cumberland Presbyterian, all Christian churches, all searching for the truth, and each of them can back up their beliefs with Scripture, hard to argue with that, or tell them they are wrong.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
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#30
Look, I won't try to stifle your idea's, you should not try to stifle mine...
You posted "assumptions" ("Does it say in the Bible..." and "What do you say?") looking for replys and I gave them in a direct manner (giving Scripture to support my replys), I certainly haven't "stiffled" your ideas, I simply answered your "assumptions"!
 
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bikerchaz

Guest
#31
I do not, but the Spirit within me confirms to me that the two witnesses are 'the Jews and us'. Read Isaiah 43, this confirms the first witness, and the second are those called to faith through the grace of God completed in the work of Christ Jesus.
 
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badger58

Guest
#32
OK, I will make this as simple as I can, using the bible and basic deduction skills.
Judge me now and share with the body of Christ. 1 John 5:7 There are 3 that bare witness in heaven. The Father, the Word(who became Jesus) if you disagree read John 1:1-8, and the Holy Spirit. Now read Rev 3:13,14. Jesus is a faithful and true witness. Alright, now using simple deduction. Rev 3:13,14 Jesus is 1 true witness. 1 John 5:7 states that the two other witnesses in Heaven are the Father and the Holy Spirit. The law of not condemning anyone on the testimony of one witness is a patterned after Heaven(based on simple deduction this is my logical assumption). So, if what I have proposed thus far is true. Am I within my rights, as a child of God. Can I proceed in searching the scripture, to see where this line of reasoning takes me to. If so, then there should be other scripture to spur me forward or to lead me to another conclusion. If you disagree, please be kind and explain why you think I'm off course. Thanks for taking the time to look at this. Thy word is true! Oh God. Shalom
 
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badger58

Guest
#33
ok its been many days and no one has given a rebuttal to my premise. I take your silence to mean you can find no biblical way to shoot down this foundation. Last chance!
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#34
OK, I will make this as simple as I can, using the bible and basic deduction skills.
Judge me now and share with the body of Christ. 1 John 5:7 There are 3 that bare witness in heaven. The Father, the Word(who became Jesus) if you disagree read John 1:1-8, and the Holy Spirit. Now read Rev 3:13,14. Jesus is a faithful and true witness. Alright, now using simple deduction. Rev 3:13,14 Jesus is 1 true witness. 1 John 5:7 states that the two other witnesses in Heaven are the Father and the Holy Spirit. The law of not condemning anyone on the testimony of one witness is a patterned after Heaven(based on simple deduction this is my logical assumption). So, if what I have proposed thus far is true. Am I within my rights, as a child of God. Can I proceed in searching the scripture, to see where this line of reasoning takes me to. If so, then there should be other scripture to spur me forward or to lead me to another conclusion. If you disagree, please be kind and explain why you think I'm off course. Thanks for taking the time to look at this. Thy word is true! Oh God. Shalom
Your foundational verse is lacking textual credibility. Your basic deduction skills need work.

No point in shooting down that which never gets off the ground.

The two witnesses will be Jewish men as their testimony will be toward Israel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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badger58

Guest
#36
So your telling the Christian world that that the scriptures that I have given do not state that there are three very reliable witnesses in heaven. Your full of baloney. You are truly blind if you cannot agree with that premise.
 
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badger58

Guest
#37
Is this thread some sort of a joke?
No Joke! Just a paradigm shift is necessary. Or it does seem like a joke. I'm only interested in conversing with Bereans. Not those who know it all.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#38
So your telling the Christian world that that the scriptures that I have given do not state that there are three very reliable witnesses in heaven. Your full of baloney. You are truly blind if you cannot agree with that premise.
You are the bible scholar. You are the man with the improbable premise.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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badger58

Guest
#39
You are the bible scholar. You are the man with the improbable premise.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Typical come back. Put down,insult because you invested an entire 30 seconds and came to the conclusion that you have to chime in. Looking for Bereans.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,040
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#40
Does it say in the Bible, that the Holy Spirit will be taken away from the world, before the 2 witnesses show up? I should know this, but i don't right now, sorry, it's a big book with a lot to try to understand.
No it doesn't. If the Holy spirit is taken away from the world where do the witnesses get the power to witness and do miracles for three and a half years?
 
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