lets have some Bible study shall we?

[roaringkitten]

The blood by itself can't save anything. Faith in the blood is what saves.

I suggest you look at my signature, for I have been saying that for a very long time now! But to you, having faith in the blood is not sufficient for salvation! You say salvation is dependent on obedience, dependent on works of righteousness, etc....in regards to our Christian walk, the blood should motivate us to serve Him:

"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" Heb 9:14

 

[PennEd]

Ezekiel 33 13 When I say to the righteousthat he shall surely live, but he trusts in his own righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die.

These Grace PLUS works guys, which really means WORKS alone, who trust in THEIR righteousness, have had the Trumpet warning for month after month, and thread after thread.

My brothers and sisters that trust SOLELY on the blood of Jesus, and the free gift of Grace given to us BECAUSE of that blood, I thank you for your perseverance in exposing the WORKS people. Your love and patience is something I pray the Lord would grow stringer in me.

Peace, Grace and LOVE to you in the Name of our Precious Lord, Jesus Christ

 

[Grace777x70]

Ezekiel 33 13 When I say to the righteousthat he shall surely live, but he trusts in his own righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die.

These Grace PLUS works guys, which really means WORKS alone, have had the Trumpet warning for month after month, and thread after thread.

My brothers and sisters that trust SOLELY on the blood of Jesus, and the free gift of Grace given to us BECAUSE of that blood, I thank you for your perseverance in exposing the WORKS people. Your love and patience is something I pray the Lord would grow stringer in me.

Peace, Grace and LOVE to you in the Name of our Precious Lord, Jesus Christ

Amen...these posts are not for the works-based mindsets as they have been told over 200X times the difference but other viewers that come and read the threads will benefit from the scriptures used to believe in the gospel of the grace of Christ only for their lives.

This scripture always comes to mind when dealing with this D.I.Y. self-effort/righteousness/holiness mindset.

Galatians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

 

[roaringkitten]

You cannot argue against the blood of the Lamb!

There's a hymn: "Power in the Blood"

It really is that powerful! Satan doesn't want anyone to focus on the Lamb's blood, because then his salvation by works gets exposed for what it is, DIY righteousness!

From Genesis to Revelation, the blood sacrifice of Christ is the only hope we have!

 

[garee]

This is complete nonsense and a lie perpetrated by false-grace believers; It's completely repudiated by the context of John 15:1-6.

Just curious while it is good that people do not abuse the grace of God we understand that no man keep the whole law without stumbling in one point even the least and therefore will be found guilty of violating the whole law in respect to the eternal wage due for violating the least.

What kind of grace would you say teaches us to say no to ungodliness which comes by violating the law at any point?

Do you have a Catholic background?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Posting the 8 occurances as they are listed below (to compare the general use)



. . .


None of which seem to show this support. I cant even find support in the context, let alone any of the comparitives when you look at the previous examples posted.

I am going to have to study this further.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The word man is not in the Greek text.

The word man is in the Greek text. It is the word τις.

It also says that anyone that not remaining in Christ is cast away. Unbelievers are never in Christ, so they cannot be removed from him for not remaining in him. So a person has to be in Christ first before he can be cast away for not remaining there.

You're being influenced by false teachers.

I am going to have to meditate on this passage of Scripture.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Before you replied I had already edited the post, so it wouldn't confuse people like yourself(reread my post again). Perhaps I should have worded it differently and said this user accuses the brethren, just as Satan accuses the brethren. That's what I was trying to convey.

"You just outed yourself" is an accusation. That is what this user has been doing to many users on CC for a long time now. Telling those who have their sins washed in the Lamb's blood are in danger of going to hell.

It is not just this. He tells people they are wrong, They gnostic. They are this and that. Instead of responding to a post to show he understands what the person is saying, and then saying I disagree, and this is why.

He just attacks everyone who does not agree with him.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The word man is in the Greek text. It is the word τις.
I am going to have to meditate on this passage of Scripture.

That word does not mean man. It means anyone or anything.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Just curious while it is good that people do not abuse the grace of God we understand that no man keep the whole law without stumbling in one point even the least and therefore will be found guilty of violating the whole law in respect to the eternal wage due for violating the least.

What kind of grace would you say teaches us to say no to ungodliness which comes by violating the law at any point?

Do you have a Catholic background?

I really don't understand your bolded question.

No, I have never had anything to do with Catholicism.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

That word does not mean man. It means anyone or anything.

k. i thought when you said "The word man is not in the Greek text" you meant there was no Greek word in the text and that the translators added the word "man" to the text.


btw, i'm still looking into John 15.

 

[phil112]

Before you replied I had already edited the post, so it wouldn't confuse people like yourself(reread my post again). Perhaps I should have worded it differently and said this user accuses the brethren, just as Satan accuses the brethren. That's what I was trying to convey.

"You just outed yourself" is an accusation. That is what this user has been doing to many users on CC for a long time now. Telling those who have their sins washed in the Lamb's blood are in danger of going to hell.

No, you may have edited it as I was posting, but to say you edited before I posted is baloney.
Now you're accusing me of what, intentionally twisting what you said? Because you are telling me and everyone here that I intentionally posted something I knew to be wrong. And you want me to reread your post NOW? After you've edited it? What exactly does that prove???? It doesn't change what you said initially. Tell me, in your edited version did you acknowledge that you made an error and apologize for saying something you didn't want to? No? Doesn't sound like you're real sincere about it then. Sounds like you only sorry you got caught.
Look, words mean something. Think before you post. Say what you mean, and mean what you say. I figured you probably didn't mean it as it sounded, but you're the one that typed what you said, not me or anyone else. The error lies in front of your keyboard, not mine.
"You just outed yourself" is his way of saying you said something that contradicts your position or something you said earlier. I don't know what, in particular, he was referring to, but after your reaction here I'm leaning towards him being correct on this one. You aren't careful about what you say and how you say it.
I would suggest you may want to read James 5:12 and consider what the wisdom that scripture has for all of us.

 

[PeterJens]

I was thinking the other day, there are two beings in the world. Those who believe in love, righteousness, purity and those who think this is a dream. Now if you follow Christ, he is the example of these realities.

If you try and just copy Jesus you fail, because without communion with God, it is not possible.

Now one group claim you cannot hold righteousness and purity to your heart because it is impossible, so you must accept we are failures, though Christ has saved us, victory is not possible.

The problem is simple. You show you are walking with Jesus through victory. However you get there without communion and love you missed the message.

I find it strange those who claim to know the truth do not see this reality. Is it because they have failed and so deny all the verses which tell them they have failed and so create a story it does not matter.

But the question remains, if you do not hunger and thirst after righteousness and purity, you are not following Christ.
If you say those who have this desire in their hearts are hypocrites and failures, you have just proved you are not where you claim to be. And it is not us who are condemning you, your own hearts are, your consciences showing you your failure.
If you are not failing then welcome brother or sister, let us follow Christ together.

 

[PeterJens]

Does a Christian accept sin? No. Because sin is a denial of life itself.

If you love Christ you love life and desire to bring blessings to people. Sin is the opposite of this.
There is though through life a process of sanctification, the changing of memories and experiences into the love of Christ working in our hearts. It is a fight, a work of perseverance, a fixing of ones face against the world and walking to heaven.

What is odd is those who claim everything is achieved before you start walking as if you are clean before you have a bath.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I have looked at several studies on John 15 and I have reviewed information on vine growing and what is entailed in the spring pruning as vineyards are prepared before blooming.

In John 15:2, the verse is speaking of the branch that is in the Vine. So my understanding is that these are believers abiding in the Vine.

John 15:2 also speaks of times when believers, as branches abiding in the Vine, do not bear fruit and there are times when believers, as branches in the Vine, do bear fruit.

In verse 2, the words he taketh away are the Greek word αἴρει. In studying this word, I looked at how vineyards were pruned. There are two pruning seasons --- one in spring and one after all the grapes are harvested from the vines. In the spring pruning, some branches with no fruit are left on the vine because they are not ready to bear fruit. The branches are removed from the ground and supported by trellises to allow for aeration.


Here is a quote from a study I read entitled "Viticulture and John 15:1-6":

The approach of most exegetes is to see in Jesus' words a process by which farmers pick off the adventitious sprigs from the fruiting branches (cleanses them) and cut off nonfruiting branches (takes them away). This interpretation of ai[rei, however, contradicts the evidence from Pliny that nonfruiting branches were preserved and nurtured for use the following season.70 It would be better to see Jesus indicating what actually occurred during the spring, namely, certain nonfruiting branches were tied to the trellises along with the fruiting branches while the side shoots of the fruiting branches were being "cleaned up." The nonfruiting branches were allowed to grow with full vigor and without the removal of any side growth or leaves, since the more extensive their growth the greater the diameter of their stem where it connected to the vine, giving greater ability to produce more fruit the following season. Removing the nonfruiting branches from the ground and placing them on the trellis would allow the rows of plants to benefit from unhindered aeration, considered an essential element to proper fruit development.71 To see ai[rei as removal (judgment or discipline) is to contradict the actual practice of the time.

Recognizing the practice described by the two terms, the meaning of "in Me" becomes apparent also. Both kinds of branches may be in Christ and may be abiding, since they both existed and were desired on every vine in Jesus' day. Denying that the unfruitful branch of verse 2 is attached to the vine violates the reality of the world from which the description arose.

What about Jesus' instructions to abide (mevnw, v. 4)? He told His disciples that they were fruiting branches that had been "cleansed" and so they could anticipate immediate fruitfulness, though that depended on their maintaining a proper relationship ("abiding") with Him. He implied by this that others were believing in Him who were not yet ready to bear fruit, but who needed to maintain a proper relationship with Him, to abide in Him (i.e., to stay in fellowship with Him) in order to bear fruit eventually. This understanding of verses 3-5 conforms to the cultural practices from which the analogy arose.

https://www.dts.edu/download/publications/bibliotheca/BibSac-Derickson-ViticultureAndJohn15,1-6.pdf

I do not believe the word αἴρει means he taketh away. I do believe the word should be translated as "lifted up", as that is what takes place in a vineyard when the lower branches are removed from the ground and fastened to a trellis.

I do not believe the Father, as Vinedresser, takes away any believer who is in the the Lord Jesus Christ. I do believe the Father nurtures and supports those believers which have no fruit so they may bring forth fruit in due time.

 

[Grace777x70]

I have looked at several studies on John 15 and I have reviewed information on vine growing and what is entailed in the spring pruning as vineyards are prepared before blooming.

In John 15:2, the verse is speaking of the branch that is in the Vine. So my understanding is that these are believers abiding in the Vine.

John 15:2 also speaks of times when believers, as branches abiding in the Vine, do not bear fruit and there are times when believers, as branches in the Vine, do bear fruit.

In verse 2, the words he taketh away are the Greek word αἴρει. In studying this word, I looked at how vineyards were pruned. There are two pruning seasons --- one in spring and one after all the grapes are harvested from the vines. In the spring pruning, some branches with no fruit are left on the vine because they are not ready to bear fruit. The branches are removed from the ground and supported by trellises to allow for aeration.


Here is a quote from a study I read entitled "Viticulture and John 15:1-6":



I do not believe the word αἴρει means he taketh away. I do believe the word should be translated as "lifted up", as that is what takes place in a vineyard when the lower branches are removed from the ground and fastened to a trellis.

I do not believe the Father, as Vinedresser, takes away any believer who is in the the Lord Jesus Christ. I do believe the Father nurtures and supports those believers which have no fruit so they may bring forth fruit in due time.

I agree with you. Good work. Some people need to have that God "takes us away" because they do not believe in God's ability to keep us and in order to stay "saved" you need to do things or IOW - it's called works-based salvation. They also do not believe in Christ's finished work and that we need to "help" Him with keeping the free gift of salvation in Him.

We need to preach the gospel of the grace of Christ so that we can grow up in grace and knowledge of Him and be fruitful. Mark those that try to undermine your faith in what Christ has already done for us in His great salvation and avoid them all you can.

Colossians 2:6-8 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I do not believe the word αἴρει means he taketh away. I do believe the word should be translated as "lifted up", as that is what takes place in a vineyard when the lower branches are removed from the ground and fastened to a trellis.

I do not believe the Father, as Vinedresser, takes away any believer who is in the the Lord Jesus Christ. I do believe the Father nurtures and supports those believers which have no fruit so they may bring forth fruit in due time.

The context of John 15:1-6 proves unfruitful branches are removed and cast into the fire.

​“I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch that does not bear fruit in me, he removes it, and every [branch] that bears fruit, he prunes it in order that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. Remain in me, and I in you. Just as the branch is not able to bear fruit from itself unless it remains in the vine, so neither [can] you, unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you [are] the branches. The one who remains in me and I in him—this one bears much fruit, for apart from me you are not able to do anything. If anyone does not remain in me, he is thrown out as the branch, and dries up, and they gather them and throw [them] into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6​

1. Just as THE branch is not able to bear fruit from itself unless it remains in the vine, so neither [can] you, unless you remain in me
2. If anyone does not remain in me, he is thrown out as THE branch [that does not bear fruit is], and [it] dries up, and they gather them and throw [them] into the fire, and they are burned
3. Every branch that does not bear fruit in me, he removes it

Lifting a branch up off of the ground completely contradicts this context. Rather the branch is lifted from the plant itself and destroyed. It also contradicts the parable of the unfruitful tares which are destroyed by fire.

 

[roaringkitten]

The context of John 15:1-6 proves unfruitful branches are removed and cast into the fire.

​“I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch that does not bear fruit in me, he removes it, and every [branch] that bears fruit, he prunes it in order that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. Remain in me, and I in you. Just as the branch is not able to bear fruit from itself unless it remains in the vine, so neither [can] you, unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you [are] the branches. The one who remains in me and I in him—this one bears much fruit, for apart from me you are not able to do anything. If anyone does not remain in me, he is thrown out as the branch, and dries up, and they gather them and throw [them] into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6​

1. Just as THE branch is not able to bear fruit from itself unless it remains in the vine, so neither [can] you, unless you remain in me
2. If anyone does not remain in me, he is thrown out as THE branch [that does not bear fruit is], and [it] dries up, and they gather them and throw [them] into the fire, and they are burned
3. Every branch that does not bear fruit in me, he removes it

Lifting a branch up off of the ground completely contradicts this context. Rather the branch is lifted from the plant itself and destroyed. It also contradicts the parable of the unfruitful tares which are destroyed by fire.

Yo-yo salvation......one day you're in, next day you're out.....rinse and repeat. Didn't you just get done saying:

Faith in the blood is what saves.

Oh that's right, you didn't really mean it did you. You only said that because I cornered you with the blood! Your disregard for the blood of Christ is insulting, and even more that you say a blood bought believer can go to hell one day!

"Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us." Rom 8:33-34

 

[Grace777x70]

The tares in Matt 13: 36-43 are the ones sent in from the devil not from God. These were never in Christ to begin with. They are not called "unfruitful tares" because they are not even able to bear fruit and there is no such thing as a fruitful nor unfruitful tare.

Matthew 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;[SUP]39 [/SUP]and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.

Then in verse 41-43 the angels come and take out those tares that are stumbling blocks and commit lawlessness ( unrighteousness ) and then the "righteous" shine. We are the righteousness of God in Christ.

Here is the contrast between "lawlessness/unrighteousness"( [FONT="Gentium" !important]anomia - Greek )[/FONT]
which are unbelievers in Christ and "righteousness" which are believers in Christ.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? ( anomia ) and what communion hath light with darkness?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Here is a quote from a study I read entitled "Viticulture and John 15:1-6":

FWIW, this study is found on the website of the Dallas Theological Seminary, which is a bastion of Free Grace theology that teaches once a person confesses Christ, they can never be lost even if he apostatizes.