-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Grace is free...that's the whole point of God's extravagant love and grace and mercy towards us. He is displaying His heart and will towards us. He loves us dearly and is not looking for ways to disqualify us from what His Son bought for with His life and blood.
Romans 5:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
Romans 6:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves,( this is where the works-based mindset messes up ) it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9[/SUP] not as a result of works, ( this is where the works-based mindset messes up ) so that no one may boast.
Romans 5:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
Romans 6:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves,( this is where the works-based mindset messes up ) it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9[/SUP] not as a result of works, ( this is where the works-based mindset messes up ) so that no one may boast.
Last edited:
R
Keep up the good work exposing salvation by works on CC! I understand that Christians won't agree on every doctrine in the Word, but when it comes to salvation, getting that doctrine wrong will mean the lake of fire! People keep thinking they must work for salvation, but we have entered into His rest by belief!
Hebrews 4:
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief
Hebrews 4:
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief
I looked at John 15:2 in Codex Sinaiticus and Textus Receptus. Both Codex Sinaiticus and Textus Receptus have the words "in me" after the words "every branch".
If the words "in me" appeared after the words "bear fruit" as shown in the version you posted, I would agree with you.
Since the words "in me" appear after the words "every branch", I believe Jesus is speaking of branches who are in Him. I do not believe Father removes branches who are in Him.
I do not see the contradiction.
I believe the verse indicates there will be periods of time in which we will not bear fruit and as we remain in the Lord Jesus Christ we can be assured that during those times we are being prepared for bearing fruit. That is comforting to my soul.
Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Do the children of the wicked one abide in the Vine?
If the words "in me" appeared after the words "bear fruit" as shown in the version you posted, I would agree with you.
Since the words "in me" appear after the words "every branch", I believe Jesus is speaking of branches who are in Him. I do not believe Father removes branches who are in Him.
I do not see the contradiction.
I believe the verse indicates there will be periods of time in which we will not bear fruit and as we remain in the Lord Jesus Christ we can be assured that during those times we are being prepared for bearing fruit. That is comforting to my soul.
Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Do the children of the wicked one abide in the Vine?
P
Show me one post where someone claims you must work to get salvation. Just one.
You and your glad-handing buddies are so busy congratulating each other you don't have time for logic and reason.
You must remain obedient to Christ if you want to go to heaven.
You must be a follower of Christ.
Follow is a verb. It shows action.
You cannot be a saint by sitting on your rear at home playing on the computer.
You must tell others about Christ when given the opportunity.
You must be honest.
You must not be a liar.
None of the things a believer does is done without motion.
All of the virtues a believer has must be demonstrated to be known.
By their fruits you shall know them.
How can a person judge the fruit of someone who does not ever move? Someone that has no fruit?
Now, copy and paste everything I just said, and beside each one give me the scriptural reason what I said is wrong.
You and your glad-handing buddies are so busy congratulating each other you don't have time for logic and reason.
You must remain obedient to Christ if you want to go to heaven.
You must be a follower of Christ.
Follow is a verb. It shows action.
You cannot be a saint by sitting on your rear at home playing on the computer.
You must tell others about Christ when given the opportunity.
You must be honest.
You must not be a liar.
None of the things a believer does is done without motion.
All of the virtues a believer has must be demonstrated to be known.
By their fruits you shall know them.
How can a person judge the fruit of someone who does not ever move? Someone that has no fruit?
Now, copy and paste everything I just said, and beside each one give me the scriptural reason what I said is wrong.
You're completely ignoring verse 6 that says those who do not remain in Christ will not bear fruit and will be broken off and cast away. It wasn't GOD's choice for them to not remain in the vine and consequently not bear fruit, but it is his choice to get rid of branches that serve no purpose. It's no different than:
Well said! They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand firm because of faith. Do not think arrogant [thoughts], but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity upon those who have fallen, but upon you the kindness of God—if you continue in his kindness, for otherwise you also will be cut off. Romans 11:20-22
R
Which is clearly refuted by :
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" Titus 3:5
Does it get any clearer to you Phil? You both are trusting in yourselves to get to heaven! What good is the blood of Christ if you can get into heaven another way? It is beneath yourselves to go around the forums telling blood bought saints they can go to hell again! If you don't completely trust on the blood of the Lamb of God as your only means to salvation, you will wrestle the Scriptures to your own destruction!
"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 2 Pet 3:16
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" Titus 3:5
Does it get any clearer to you Phil? You both are trusting in yourselves to get to heaven! What good is the blood of Christ if you can get into heaven another way? It is beneath yourselves to go around the forums telling blood bought saints they can go to hell again! If you don't completely trust on the blood of the Lamb of God as your only means to salvation, you will wrestle the Scriptures to your own destruction!
"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 2 Pet 3:16
E
Thats prety amazing, He asks us to show one post where someone says works are required. yet look at all the works highlighted he says one must do to be saved.
As for why aer they wrong. Because they are works of righteousness used to gain salvation.. Not works oof righteousness empowered by God in us, because we are saved.
As for why aer they wrong. Because they are works of righteousness used to gain salvation.. Not works oof righteousness empowered by God in us, because we are saved.
P
You must do the righteous work of abstaining from sin and doing the will of GOD in order to be saved.
Abstaining from sin is not sinning. So not doing something isn't a work, now is it?
Because he phrased something wrong doesn't make you right.
P
What Corinthians? I'm sure some were and some weren't. Which ones are you talking about?
Now you are not being honest. You are saying I said something I didn't.
I'm pretty sure there is a scripture or two about bearing false witness against another.
Not anyone. Just folks like you who cannot understand nor spell the english language very well.
What did I say? This: "Show me one post where someone claims you must work to get salvation."
Now, I'll type this real slow, in large letters, so even you can understand it. If you choose to disobey Jesus, say by sinning at will, can you go to heaven?
Of course not. Sin is not allowed in heaven.
Now, one more question for you; Is being obedient to Jesus a work?
You must believe it is, because you think it is when I say it.
Which means you do not obey Jesus because you don't do works.
Who makes themselves look bad?
Now you are not being honest. You are saying I said something I didn't.
I'm pretty sure there is a scripture or two about bearing false witness against another.
Not anyone. Just folks like you who cannot understand nor spell the english language very well.
What did I say? This: "Show me one post where someone claims you must work to get salvation."
Now, I'll type this real slow, in large letters, so even you can understand it. If you choose to disobey Jesus, say by sinning at will, can you go to heaven?
Of course not. Sin is not allowed in heaven.
Now, one more question for you; Is being obedient to Jesus a work?
You must believe it is, because you think it is when I say it.
Which means you do not obey Jesus because you don't do works.
Who makes themselves look bad?