The two witnesses

[DP]

What I want to know, is why people totally ignore this all important clue.....

Revelation 11:4
"These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth."

Show me by scripture where 2 flesh and blood men like Moses and Elijah feed the Golden Oil of God's Spirit into the 7 spirits of God, so we might believe 2 flesh and blood men have this power.

What you are missing is this, for one thing:

Rev 1:20
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
KJV

Secondly, when our Lord Jesus is speaking of the flesh bodies of two men being killed and their dead bodies left in the street (plaza) of Jerusalem, with the nations seeing... their dead bodies lay in the street, then you should easily know that is not a spiritualization, nor analogy, metaphor, etc.

 

[popeye]

Imagine a doctrine that hates a song about the return of Jesus..

Well he is coming. And I love his coming,and pray to be worthy as Directed by the King Jesus.
I will enjoy the promise of God.
"..........I go and prepare a place for you in heaven,that where I am you may be also..."
I personally reject the doctrine of men's minds that would disenfranchise the promise of God,in favor of some mental gymnastics that rejects the promise of the business God has with his body in heaven.

[video=youtube;C1M6BlZyieo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1M6BlZyieo[/video]

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Here's something that had me confused for sometime til recently.
When the Lord revealed to me that the Two Witnesses are the OT/NT scriptures and the the 144,000 are connected with the Two Witnesses I still had to search the scriptures to get a better understanding.
These Verse's are the ones that had me confused for a time and now I've figured it out hopefully.
Not only that, it kind of opened up the book of Revelation for me a little more.

Revelation 14:6-10
The three angels
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

All of chapter 14 is all about the Lamb and the 144,000 who carry the testimony.
John is confused on what he is seeing,he thinks he is seeing Angels in the air but it is the remnant.

Revelation 14:2
And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

It is the same water that Jesus offers the Samaritan woman,the voice of a great thunder is the voice of God,just like in the scriptures.The voice of the Harpers playing their harps is the song of the 144,000,
the song is the testimony of the Two witnesses;OT/NT.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello Lifted,

Here's something that had me confused for sometime til recently.
When the Lord revealed to me that the Two Witnesses are the OT/NT scriptures and the the 144,000 are connected with the Two Witnesses I still had to search the scriptures to get a better understanding.
These Verse's are the ones that had me confused for a time and now I've figured it out hopefully.
Not only that, it kind of opened up the book of Revelation for me a little more.

The two witnesses are two actual men who are separate from the 144,000. The purpose of the two witnesses will will be to prophesy for 1260 days, which I personally believe will be during the first 3 1/2 years of that last seven. They will also be given power to to bring plagues upon the earth as often as they want. There is absolutely no scripture linking the two witnesses with the 144,000.

The 144,000 will be exactly that, 144,000, twelve thousand out of each tribe, who will be sealed with the seal of God in their foreheads. My personal belief is that the designation of "Male Child" is a collective name for the 144,000 who will be caught up to God's throne in the middle of the seven years.

I hope that this helps

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

And here is the verse that opened it up and confirmed What the Lord revealed to be true.

Revelation 19:9-10
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

The "Angel" Stops John from worshiping him and is basically telling John that he is not a Angel but a fellow servant.
Who are the servants?The Church of Philadelphia aka the remnant/144,000.

Revelation 3:7-13

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The 12 Apostles also had a door opened to them by the Lord, they were also considered pillers.
[/FONT]
The Angel is thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus.
It is a predestined Apostle that is speaking and he says the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of Prophecy.
The bible is prophecy and the two witnesses prophesy 1260 days.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Hello Ahwatukee I didn't expect you so soon
Please give me a moment to finish up by backing up what I'm saying with scripture I'd like to see what you think.
Brb I'm gonna eat something real quick

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello Ahwatukee I didn't expect you so soon
Please give me a moment to finish up by backing up what I'm saying with scripture I'd like to see what you think.
Brb I'm gonna eat something real quick

Ha! Bon appetit

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Revelation 22:3-6
[/FONT]And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.


There is more scripture that backs all this up but I don't think i'll be able to search all of it up tonight, so I might post a little more and the rest another day.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

What you are missing is this, for one thing:

Rev 1:20
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
KJV

Secondly, when our Lord Jesus is speaking of the flesh bodies of two men being killed and their dead bodies left in the street (plaza) of Jerusalem, with the nations seeing... their dead bodies lay in the street, then you should easily know that is not a spiritualization, nor analogy, metaphor, etc.

He mentions both (the bodies) in post #7 here http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/107274-lords-2-witnesses-7-spirits.html#post2494301 And seven candlesticks in post #8 here http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/107274-lords-2-witnesses-7-spirits.html#post2494309

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Revelation 22:16-17
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

To the seven churches of revelation Jesus sends his Angel.
I cannot believe I'm saying this,but it's how it's said that matters.The spirit and the bride say come and drink.
The bride= the remnant,but I'm not saying only the remnant gets saved.There is so many scriptures that I'd have to search for just for this statement alone lol I'm not even going to bother,pretty sure you guys can figure this part out.
This is crazy,can't believe what I'm saying.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

I forgot to connect this verse up with these verses.

Isaiah 8:14-18
And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
And I will wait upon the Lord, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.
Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

All of chapter 14 is all about the Lamb and the 144,000 who carry the testimony.
John is confused on what he is seeing,he thinks he is seeing Angels in the air but it is the remnant.

Revelation 14:2
And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

It is the same water that Jesus offers the Samaritan woman,the voice of a great thunder is the voice of God,just like in the scriptures.The voice of the Harpers playing their harps is the song of the 144,000,
the song is the testimony of the Two witnesses;OT/NT.

I forgot to connect this verse up with these verses.

Isaiah 8:14-18
And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
And I will wait upon the Lord, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.
Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Isaiah 13:1-4
The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.
I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.
The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the Lord of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Isaiah 25:6-8
And in this mountain shall the Lord of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.
And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

 

[HeraldtheNews]

Hello Brothers and Sisters.I'm new here and I wanted to share and learn about the bible,Spiritual stuff,hopefully, if there are people willing to open up about what they found by the Holy Spirit,studying.

There are actually quite a few two witnesses in the bible during when something significant happen.They are there to stand as a witness.
In the Book of Revelation,The Two Witnesses have to be there to stand for everything that has happen.
And there is only one person capable of that,and it's Jesus.He is the faithful witness.
It's his testimony,that is the bible that stands as The Two Witnesses.
The double edged sword that comes out of his mouth in Revelation 1:16 represents the OT/NT.
The two Witnesses and the 144,000 are connected, and they carry with them the testimony of the Bible.That's when the Two witnesses prophesy.

Ecclesiastes 1:9-10
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.


Remember when Israel made it out of Egypt and made it to the promise land?
Joshua and Caleb are the only two original survivors who made it out of Egypt to cross the Jordan.
They are two witnesses to the next generation who never even seen Egypt.
Together they make up the remnant of Israel.The priests carried the Ark of the Testimony across the Jordan,but they to are the remnant.
They will carry the testimony in Revelation,with Jesus again at the lead.By his Spirit he will enter the temple of the two witnesses.
The 144,000 are the one's to die in the streets and refused burial.

Crossing the Jordan river was like being baptized that's possibly why they picked up the 12 stones for future generations.
The ark went first remember?(Jordan means descend or flow down)

Matthew 3:13-15
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.


There's one more thing I wanted to say about the The Two Witnesses.
The two spies(the remnant/Two Witnesses) who went into Jericho,made a oath to Rahab the prostitute for hiding them.
She hide them in Stalks of flax(straw)
Straw was used for bricks to strengthen the bricks used for building.
Walls in the bible sometimes represents the people(Israelites).
See how symbolic that is?The two witnesses will strengthen the people.This is backed up by the book of Revelation.

When they made the oath to Rahab they said "our lives for yours" and say they will be made blameless by the oath they made.
Rahab asked that her,her family,and all that are theirs be spared and it's agreed.The Bible says she lives among the Israelite's to this day.The Scarlet Cord is represented as the blood of Jesus.

That oath carries on into the book of Revelation.

Revelation 18:4-5
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Rahab the prostitute in revelation is a spiritual one.

The Two Witnesses in Revelation is the bible,carried by the remnant(144,000)with Jesus leading the way,by giving his testimony through the Temple of the 144,000.

Ecclesiastes 1:9-10
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us

I've heard some Christians say that they believe the Apostle John (Revelations, Epistles, and Gospel of John) is still alive and will be a Revelations witness-- They base this on what Jesus said after His resurrection...

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

There are so many verses in the bible that relate to the book Revelation. Here's one more that speaks of the Lamb of Revelation 14

Isaiah 52:1-12
Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
2 Shake thyself from the dust; arise, and sit down, O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion.
3 For thus saith the Lord, Ye have sold yourselves for nought; and ye shall be redeemed without money.
4 For thus saith the Lord God, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause.
5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the Lord, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the Lord; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.
6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
8Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the Lord shall bring again Zion.
9 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the Lord hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
10 The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
11 Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of theLord.
12 For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the Lord will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your reward

 

[Ahwatukee]

​[QUOTE]I've heard some Christians say that they believe the Apostle John (Revelations, Epistles, and Gospel of John) is still alive and will be a Revelations witness-- They base this on what Jesus said after His resurrection...[/QUOTE]

Hi Herald,

Yeah, I've heard that as well, but I have no idea why they would believe that, especially when it states right in the scripture that Jesus only said "if I want him to remain, what is that to you." On top of that the scripture tells us that it was a rumor started because of this.

"Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, “Lord, who is going to betray you?”) 21When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?” 22Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.”23Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?”

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

I'll just say this again,in Revelation 14 Jesus will not physically be there,but he will be in the temple of the remnant/144,000.
Not by might,nor by power,but by his spirit.

The remnant carried the Ark of the Testimony across the Jordan,fulfilling the Lords promise.They do it again in the book of Revelation.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

I've been slacking lately but today was a good day.
What do you think Ahwatukee?does this make you open up your heart to new studies on the Two Witnesses?