[/B]The idea of being "caught up" per 1 Thess.4 is not the specific problem with the false pre-trib rapture doctrine. The problem is pre-trib's adding the false idea that the harpazo ("caught up") happens prior to the tribulation when no such idea is written in that 1 Thess.4 Scripture. The pre-trib preachers simply keep repeating the prior to the trib idea until those who heed them believe them instead the written Scripture.
The 1 Thess.4 "caught up" event is... the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ. It matches the gathering of the saints Jesus proclaimed in His Olivet Discourse of Matt.24 and Mark 13. There is only a one-time coming of Jesus to gather His Church on the 'day of the Lord' as written, and that is the final day of this world at the end of the tribulation, which is when the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night, as written.
[/COLOR]Your notion you got from the pre-trib rapture preachers that the harpazo is separate from the Second Coming is false. Matt.24:29-31 covers the gathering of the asleep saints Jesus brings with Him per 1 Thess.4, and Mark 13:24-27 covers the saints still alive on earth being caught up on that same day, aligning with 1 Thess.4 perfectly.
In John 14:1-4, that's about the abodes in God's House on earth per Ezekiel 40 thru 47 that is to manifest with Jesus' return to the area of Jerusalem on earth. The dimensions of that House and its location on earth in the middle east is given in Ezekiel 47. You ought to try reading it.
In 1 Cor.15:51-58, that is describing the same events of 1 Thess.4 about the harpazo ("caught up"). 1 Cor.15 is about the resurrection on the day of Christ's second coming, which is what the raising of the asleep saints of 1 Thess.4 is about too, and aligned with.
[/COLOR][/FONT]1 Cor 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
KJV
With Zechariah 14 in the OT, that is about the Jesus' second coming on the 'day of the Lord' as a thief in the night per Paul and Peter. Jesus' feet touch down on the Mount of Olives where He ascended to The Father from per Acts 1. He gathers all His saints per 1 Thess.4, 1 Cor.15, Matt.24, Mark 13 on the way to that spot on earth in Jerusalem.
Thus ALL those Scripture examples align and agree with each other as to the same timing of Jesus' second coming to gather His Church on the final day of this world, that day called the 'day of the Lord' per God's Word.
Because of pre-trib's wrong view on that, that idea has been nicknamed the "any moment" doctrine. It is of course a false idea against God's Word, because Jesus' second coming to gather His Church MUST occur in alignment of the ORDER of events God's Word gives. Jesus does not return prior to the coming of the Antichrist. Nor are we gathered prior to the Antichrist's coming and tribulation.
Christ's Church on earth will go through the tribulation, and will only be gathered by Jesus' at His second coming on the last day of this world, as written.
There is NO written Scripture declaring a pre-trib rapture prior to the tribulation. There is written Scripture declaring the gathering of the saints AFTER the tribulation, which are our Lord Jesus' Own Words (Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27).
The tribulation is Satan's wrath upon Christ's saints. It is not the time of God's wrath poured upon the wicked on the last day. When pre-trib speaks of the idea from Apostle Paul that we are not appointed to wrath, they misinterpret the "wrath" Paul was teaching about in 1 Thess.5, which is about the "sudden destruction" upon the wicked on the last day, i.e., the "day of the Lord" which comes "as a thief in the night." Paul was teaching that sudden destruction idea from OT Scripture like Isaiah 29. The confusion by pre-trib on that point shows they have not studied God's Word about those "day of the Lord" events.
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Since Jesus had not come yet when the OT prophets were given to write prophecy, the Gentile branch was not yet established. Yet Isaiah still has several Scriptures about the Gentiles being part of Christ's inheritance in final. So statements like the OT prophets leave the Church out of the tribulation is a wild statement of supposition that cannot really be backed up, especially since God's Church then were made up of Israel's congregation.
At Revelation 16:15, Jesus is speaking to His Church still on earth on the 6th Vial, giving them a warning to not be deceived...
Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
KJV
By that He revealed His coming to gather the Church still had not yet happened on that 6th Vial timing, which is tribulation timing. So much for pre-trib's false statements that Christ's Church isn't mentioned. Also, in Rev.11 with mention of God's two witnesses appearing in Jerusalem to prophesy against the beast, "two candlesticks" are mentioned along with those two witnesses. And in Rev.1 Jesus told us who the "candlesticks" in Revelation represent:\
Rev 1:20
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
KJV
Doesn't it make you wonder if pre-trib folks even read their Bible? These errors in their doctrine I've shown suggests they really are not reading their Bibles, but are just heeding whatever their pre-trib preachers tell them.
[/COLOR]The Isaiah 24 Scripture is about the day of The Lord timing, i.e., the last day of this world when the battle of Armageddon happens, and God pours out His cup of wrath upon the wicked. It ends the tribulation.
Isa 24:19-23
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
That event of the earth shaking, is about the time when all the hills and mountains shake, and the islands moved out of their place. It's the very last day of this world, NOT the tribulation timing.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
Anyone who can read ought to be able to grasp God shaking the earth and transgression upon it falling to not rise again means the tribulation time is over, done with when that happens. So how is it pre-tribbers say this is for DURING the tribulation? Just shows how spiritually drunken they are, their eyes closed.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
That means the END of the ten king's reign of Rev.17 in case one is not aware, which of course means the tribulation has ended with this event of God punishing the host of high ones that are on high.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
This is even telling us what God is going to do with those servants of Satan on the day of Jesus' coming; they'll be cast into the abyss, the pit, with Satan, and wait out Christ's thousand years reign of Rev.20.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients gloriously.
KJV
That verse is definitely... about the Millennium timing when Jesus reigns with His elect on earth. That is where that Zion is at that time.
I think I've covered enough evidence here from Scripture to show how pre-tribbers are taught falsehoods that are not written in God's Holy Writ. And when they quote all those Scriptures as an attempt to give proof of the pre-trib rapture doctrine, in reality they show how they're not even familiar with what those Scriptures say, or... they intentionally try to mislead brethren that are gullible enough to believe them.