The essential characteristics of the Biblical Jesus

[Dan_473]

How about I submit an article with your real name attached...?

sure... that would be fraud, of course... unless you and I have the same name in real life.

if the fraud is discovered, that would negatively impact your article's reception.

but I'd be interested in seeing if your paper was accepted.

 

[Dan_473]

Back to 'essential characteristics', here's a post from a forum Moderator which lays out a non-exhaustive list of essentials: http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...eated-discussions-please-read.html#post117444

Should anything be added to this list?
Should anything in this list be further clarified?

Quote:

1. The deity of Jesus.
2. The inspiration and authority of the Bible as found in the 66 books of the Bible.
3. Faith in the crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus is the only way to reconcile you to relationship with God.
4. Jesus is coming back again!
5. Believers should seek to live for God and not the world.

Timing of end times events isn't an essential. Calvinism vs non calvinism isn't an essential. Which version of the Bible to read isn't generally an essential, unless it's a version made by a sect that teaches against the esssentials of the faith.​

here's kind of a weird thing,

from
https://www.mormon.org/beliefs/book-of-mormon

'The title page states that the Book of Mormon’s purpose is to convince all of us "that JESUS is the CHRIST, the ETERNAL GOD, manifesting himself unto all nations." '



so according to this, the deity of Jesus is confirmed... but I'm pretty sure mormon god used to be a man... so, a different God...


a different God would mean a different Jesus...

 

[BrotherJustin]

here's kind of a weird thing,

from
https://www.mormon.org/beliefs/book-of-mormon

'The title page states that the Book of Mormon’s purpose is to convince all of us "that JESUS is the CHRIST, the ETERNAL GOD, manifesting himself unto all nations." '



so according to this, the deity of Jesus is confirmed... but I'm pretty sure mormon god used to be a man... so, a different God...


a different God would mean a different Jesus...

Would make an interesting thread: "Do Christians and Mormons worship the same God?"

 

[Dan_473]

Would make an interesting thread: "Do Christians and Mormons worship the same God?"

I'm pretty sure we don't.

one way to look at it is the mormon god thought that the gospel needed restoring about the year 1830... so he appeared to joseph smith, called him as a prophet, and gave him special translating abilities (so the story goes).

 

[Dan_473]

How about I submit an article with your real name attached...?

but seriously, why wouldn't you want to use your real identitiy?

when you talk to muslims in real life (I assume you do), and share these ideas with them, you do it as yourself, don't you?

 

[Bowman]

Re: Keep the ignorance flowing...

I would ask that you please be careful of who's writings you study.

"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish." Psalm 1

Thanks for the advice....but I am firmly grounded in my beliefs..

 

[Bowman]

The function of the cross is clearly stated with the blood:

"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven." Col 1:20

We crossed over from death to life(present possession) the moment we believed. That's what the Bible clearly says.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24

Not exactly....as you had to take John 5 out of context to make that assertion...

 

[BrotherJustin]

I'm pretty sure we don't.

one way to look at it is the mormon god thought that the gospel needed restoring about the year 1830... so he appeared to joseph smith, called him as a prophet, and gave him special translating abilities (so the story goes).

I'm still undecided on the matter.

I've looked at it that way before but run into problems:

1. People, like Brother Yet, who seem to think the modern Church is in a continual state of Apostasy (http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135096-trumpet-sounding.html, http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/132515-1cor-12-romans12-ephesians-4-a.html, http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/134723-do-you-despise-him.html, http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/134514-atheists-smarter-than-christians.html).

2. Isn't the story of Joseph Smith's calling as a prophet similar to Moses's (10 commandments / tablets)?

3. Can we reject modern prophecy simply because we believe the Bible needs no more clarification or addition? (Careful with 'addition' -- I don't mean addition of anything that would contradict accepted Scripture, but addition of minor details which do not affect the essentials.

 

[Bowman]

sure... that would be fraud, of course... unless you and I have the same name in real life.

if the fraud is discovered, that would negatively impact your article's reception.

but I'd be interested in seeing if your paper was accepted.

Your name will be on the article....and then a Muslim with a backpack will come visit you at your home...

 

[BrotherJustin]

The function of the cross is clearly stated with the blood:

"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven." Col 1:20

We crossed over from death to life(present possession) the moment we believed. That's what the Bible clearly says.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24

Not exactly....as you had to take John 5 out of context to make that assertion...

...interested to see how this unwinds...

 

[BrotherJustin]

Your name will be on the article....and then a Muslim with a backpack will come visit you at your home...

Not a problem; free ticket to Heaven!

 

[roaringkitten]

here's kind of a weird thing,

from
https://www.mormon.org/beliefs/book-of-mormon

'The title page states that the Book of Mormon’s purpose is to convince all of us "that JESUS is the CHRIST, the ETERNAL GOD, manifesting himself unto all nations." '



so according to this, the deity of Jesus is confirmed... but I'm pretty sure mormon god used to be a man... so, a different God...


a different God would mean a different Jesus...

This is exactly the reason why you should NOT put your head in the Koran. As you demonstrated, the Mormons will claim a Biblical truth as the title to sucker people in, then assassinate them with the real poison of their doctrines once they are in. Besides the point that I think it is an unBiblical idea to look in the Koran, Bowman has made the claim the Koranic Muhammad is Jesus. How do you really know that without independent verification? How many times have you and others asked him for independent verification(and also to prove Muhammad from ONLY the Bible), and he just laughs at us and calls us names? Satan masquerades as an angel of light!(2 Cor 11:14), he is the most subtle liar and not only that, he MIMICS the Bible to deceive multitudes. I would never advise you to stick your head in the Mormon book either!

 

[Dan_473]

I'm still undecided on the matter.

I've looked at it that way before but run into problems:

1. People, like Brother Yet, who seem to think the modern Church is in a continual state of Apostasy (http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135096-trumpet-sounding.html, http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/132515-1cor-12-romans12-ephesians-4-a.html, http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/134723-do-you-despise-him.html, http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/134514-atheists-smarter-than-christians.html).

2. Isn't the story of Joseph Smith's calling as a prophet similar to Moses's (10 commandments / tablets)?

3. Can we reject modern prophecy simply because we believe the Bible needs no more clarification or addition? (Careful with 'addition' -- I don't mean addition of anything that would contradict accepted Scripture, but addition of minor details which do not affect the essentials.

many people, including mormons and jehovah's witnesses, focus on the passages in the nt that talk about a 'falling away'.

imo, these passages don't say that the entire church (the body of christ) will fall away.


in 1 Timothy 3, it says about
'the church of the living God',
that it is
'the pillar and ground of the truth.

also, Jesus promised that the gates of hell wouldn't withstand the church... if the church **as a whole** has apostasized, I think hell's gates could hold up against it.

 

[Dan_473]

2. Isn't the story of Joseph Smith's calling as a prophet similar to Moses's (10 commandments / tablets)?

3. Can we reject modern prophecy simply because we believe the Bible needs no more clarification or addition? (Careful with 'addition' -- I don't mean addition of anything that would contradict accepted Scripture, but addition of minor details which do not affect the essentials.

so, modern day prophets... I think a good measure is to use the standard from Deuteronomy 13 and 18, a prophet must lead people to the true God, and they must correctly fortell the future.

also, at the beginning of hebrews, God in the past spoke to us through prophets, but then spoke through Jesus. to me, the implication is that Jesus is the final revelation.
some will say that the nt was written after Jesus' resurrection. true... I think the nt is an inspired, detailed account of Jesus' revelation.

 

[Dan_473]

Your name will be on the article....and then a Muslim with a backpack will come visit you at your home...

so... fear of death keeps you quiet, as far as academic journals are concerned?

have you contacted
Oxford Journals | Arts & Humanities | Journal of Islamic Studies | Information for Authors
to explain that you have a paper ready for publication, but would like to use a pen name for fear of reprisals?

 

[Dan_473]

Not a problem; free ticket to Heaven!

that's what I was thinking, too... hopefully the blast is near you, so you die instantly...

of course, my wife and kids would miss me... but I think they would also have great happiness in thinking of me as a martyr.

 

[Dan_473]

This is exactly the reason why you should NOT put your head in the Koran. As you demonstrated, the Mormons will claim a Biblical truth as the title to sucker people in, then assassinate them with the real poison of their doctrines once they are in. Besides the point that I think it is an unBiblical idea to look in the Koran, Bowman has made the claim the Koranic Muhammad is Jesus. How do you really know that without independent verification? How many times have you and others asked him for independent verification(and also to prove Muhammad from ONLY the Bible), and he just laughs at us and calls us names? Satan masquerades as an angel of light!(2 Cor 11:14), he is the most subtle liar and not only that, he MIMICS the Bible to deceive multitudes. I would never advise you to stick your head in the Mormon book either!

lots of good points in your post.

I totally agree with
"How do you really know that without independent verification?"

the thing is, the independent sources that I've found on the internet go against whay Bowman often says.

 

[Dan_473]

I should probably add that Bowman says that his translation includes exegesis, therefore it is reliable... if I understand him right.

but the problem then just gets removed one step... how do I know Bowman's exegesis is correct?

 

[Dan_473]

typo in 397... should read:

the thing is, the independent sources that I've found on the internet go against what Bowman often says.

 

[roaringkitten]

How about I submit an article with your real name attached...?

In other words, you're advocating FRAUD, while at the same time trying to convince Christians you found the "holy grail" and how we should believe you. How do we know for sure you didn't STEAL this "holy grail" from someone else to begin with?