SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISM

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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Notice that these texts have 3 days , preparation, Sabbath and the first day.
Luke 23:54-56
(54) and
that day was the preparation, and the Sabbath drew on.
(55) And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
(56) and they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and
rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment.
Luke 24:1
(1) now upon the first dayof the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
You are missing the part about 2 Sabbaths that week.
 
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Kerry

Guest
It was Passover the whole week was Sabbath.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Passover Week.jpg
Am i missing something here or are you not sure what you are saying and getting confused?
In your previous post you say



Christ died during the day on Preparation day... which means that He died on Friday as the Jews kept it and on Friday as determined by the world now...
If He has died during Thursday night (as the world views Thursday 00:00-00:00), then that would be the biblical Friday. But we know from scripture that He died during the day, which means that it was daylight on the 6th day which means it was Friday as the world views days and the 6th day as the Bible states.

Is that clearer to you?
Wrong preparation day, He died on the preparation day for the First Day of Unleavened Bread, the High Day...

Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

The Passover is not a Sabbath and it is considered the preparation day for the First Day of Unleavened Bread.
 
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sparkman

Guest
Here is a book that readers might review in this regard, called Lying for God. It is about the Seventh Day Adventist church.

http://trishs.net/LYING%20FOR%20GOD%20-%207th%20Edition%20-%20July%2017%202012%20Revision%20-%20PDF.pdf

Personally I don't trust them much as an organization, although I have met some very nice people who are SDA. I received flyers announcing Bible studies by them, where they failed to identify their denominational affiliation. That indicates some level of deceptive behavior on their part. I talked to a Seventh Day Adventist friend about this and he admitted that they do in fact practice this sort of thing because they know they have a reputation as a cult.

In addition, the Church's official position is that those who fail to keep the Saturday Sabbath in the end times are under the mark of the Beast and will lose their salvation.

I also wonder if anyone who presses the Sabbathkeeping issue really understands justification by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.
 
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Well, now we have a quandary!! Because the Sabbath began Friday evening and ended Saturday evening. Saturday evening began the First day of the week!! So, does anyone care to rethink the "Friday" crucifixion?
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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OK whatever...

How many evenings are there in one week?------>7
How many mornings are there in one week?------>7

How many combined evenings and mornings are there in a week? 14

God is precise and he did not use days (King Jim translation), but rather used evenings and mornings...1150 days=2300 evenings and mornings.

Which fits into the 1335 days that are left as found in chapter 12 that are to be applied unto Israel.
This sounds great if you want to ignore the culture of the Bible. an evening and morning is one day.

Gen_1:13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.
Gen_1:19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.
Gen_1:23 And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.

It starts with evening because the Hebrew culture had its day start at the sunset to sunset. So evening then morning then evening starts a new day. every day has an evening and a morning.
 
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Kaycie

Guest
I studied with a seventh day Adventist priest. He said God never meant for man to eat meat. Then I showed him in Deuteronomy where He ordered His people to eat from the flock and from the herd. He said it is harm to animals. I asked if that included fish, he said yes. I said Jesus ate fish. Now tell me, if Jesus never sinned, yet ate meat, how is eating meat sinful? He didn't give me a straight answer, but he did change the subject.
 
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Laodicea

Guest
I studied with a seventh day Adventist priest. He said God never meant for man to eat meat. Then I showed him in Deuteronomy where He ordered His people to eat from the flock and from the herd. He said it is harm to animals. I asked if that included fish, he said yes. I said Jesus ate fish. Now tell me, if Jesus never sinned, yet ate meat, how is eating meat sinful? He didn't give me a straight answer, but he did change the subject.
Eating meat is not a sin. Though is is better for your health to be a vegetarian and better health will affect our spiritual life. Also the SDA church does not have priests, they are ministers.

3 John 1:2 KJV
(2) Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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If being a legalist is respecting and wanting to adhere to God's 10 Commandments - Then sign me up. God says if you love me keep my commandments. To obey is better that sacrifice. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. I delight in Your laws.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Being called a legalist puts us in pretty good company doesn't it?
 
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sparkman

Guest
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Being called a legalist puts us in pretty good company doesn't it?
Why don't you tell them you think Sunday observers are under the Mark of the Beast, and that they are "so-called Christians" following a "false gospel" and a "Counterfeit Christianity" whose pastors are "ministers of Satan"?

Better yet, why don't you tell them you believe you are going to be fully God in the resurrection, just like God the Father and Jesus Christ, and will eventually have your own planet ruling over human beings?

:)

I don't think some of the Sabbathkeepers here want to be associated with your Armstrongite doctrines. Even if I was a Sabbathleeper still, I wouldn't want to be.

I think you need to be more careful about cutting down others' doctrinal positions seeing as you're living in a glass house.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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Just a note on SDA and the doctrine of atonement.

We are often misunderstood on this topic. We believe that Jesus made atonement at the cross for our sins. That it is by His atonement on the cross that we are saved and have the promise of eternal life with Him.

But this is not the fullness of biblical atonement. While I don't have time right now to open it up. I will briefly make some notes.

True atonement is not yet, as true atonement involves being with God in person when He lives with men. This is still to come. In order for this to come atonement involves the removal of all sin from the earth. This takes place just before Jesus returns for us. If you study the scriptures you will find that the destruction of sinners who do not repent is an act of atonement.

When Adventists talk about our sins being in the most Holy Place it is symbolic and is in the blood of the lamb which goes in. It is covered sin, forgiven sin, It is a record of the fact that Christ has been judged in our place. and by His blood our sins are removed.

Therefore it is a joyful thing for a Christian to have their sins in the most holy place because the only way it can get there is by blood of cleansing. It is only there because of Christ our sin barer and it is salvation. its not recorded against us but in favour of us. it is a record of acceptance of the blood. hope that helps a little.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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I just want to say I don't know of any reason to think that Jesus was born on the seventh day of the week or that His second advent will be on the 7th day of the week.
 
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sparkman

Guest
View attachment 73852

Wrong preparation day, He died on the preparation day for the First Day of Unleavened Bread, the High Day...

Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

The Passover is not a Sabbath and it is considered the preparation day for the First Day of Unleavened Bread.
There was no preparation for the first day of Unleavened Bread. On the first day of unleavened bread, Israelites could prepare food..no food needed to be prepared in advance. It was a feast day.

Exodus 12:16 On the first day you shall hold a holy assembly, and on the seventh day a holy assembly. No work shall be done on those days. But what everyone needs to eat, that alone may be prepared by you.

So, food could be prepared and "preparation day" was related to food preparation, if Exodus 16 is considered.

One could imply it was related to cleaning out the unleavened bread, and I have no issue with that actually..because the following day was both the weekly Sabbath and the first day of Unleavened Bread

The theory you suggest, which is a common one amongst some who wish to declare the rest of Christianity pagan as Armstrongites do, has a serious problem. Sabbaton definitely has a weekly context and is talking about the weekly Sabbath and not an annual Sabbath.

In the verse you quote, the word for Sabbath in both cases is sabbaton. Sabbaton DEFINITELY refers to the weekly Sabbath. The word sabbaton has a weekly context; in fact sabbaton is translated "week" in several verses. For instance, Sunday, the first day of the week, is "mia ton Sabbaton" (first of week in English) in NT Greek, and is used in this manner in several places. Sabbaton is NOWHERE used to refer to a festival.

Here's the chronology:

Christ was crucified on Friday. The day after was the weekly Sabbath AND the first day of unleavened bread (Nisan 15) so it was both. He was resurrected on Sunday. He was in the grave part of Friday, all of Saturday, and part of Sunday. He rose on the third day (the day after tomorrow) starting from his crucifixion.

The only difficult verse concerning this view in this regard is Matthew 12:40 as it says "three days and three nights"...informed understanding is that this is an emphatic way of stating that he would be in the grave three days, and the phrase "in three days" is a Hebrew idiom which implies "the day after tomorrow". I don't base my understanding on this issue on one verse when the rest of Scripture very nicely harmonizes together.

In addition, Day of Preparation is widely acknowledged amongst scholars to be synonymous with Friday during the NT period.

If your theory is correct, you have women coming to the grave to apply additional spices to a 4 day old corpse. Not likely..by then he would be severely decomposed. Remember when Martha told Jesus that Lazarus, after three days, would already be rotted and stinking, just prior to his resurrection?

In addition, do you know why very few Messianic Jews and Hebrew Roots people would support your chronology, even though the more radical ones declare Easter pagan? Unlike Armstrongites, they KNOW that the feast of firstfruits commemorates Christ's resurrection and it was observed on a Sunday, the feast of firstfruits. They KNOW Christ was resurrected on Sunday, unlike Armstrong taught (Lev 23:15).

Besides them, the Seventh Day Adventists acknowledge that Sunday is the day of the resurrection, even though they would love to say that Saturday was, because it would bolster support for Sabbathkeeping and remove a major reason for Sunday observance amongst other Christians. The hope of Christianity is based on the resurrection, as Paul said, and it is perfectly appropriate to worship on Sunday corporately.

If one hold your view, when they read the Scriptural accounts, they must 1) ignore the fact that sabbaton has a weekly context which can be easily proven 2) read the Scriptures very awkwardly, claiming that the same author switches between an annual Sabbath to a weekly Sabbath without making ANY reference to the difference in their nature 3) ignore the fact that even individuals who consider Easter pagan acknowledge that the resurrection occurred on Sunday, namely Hebrew Roots and Messianic Jews, because of the feast of firstfruits, which occurred on Sunday and 4) they must also ignore the fact that Seventh Day Adventists, who would love to be able to assert that Saturday was the day of the resurrection, WILL NOT do that because it is obviously unscriptural and despite my differences with them on the Sabbath, I believe they have enough integrity that they attempt to discern Scriptures correctly.

Again, the only difficult Scripture in this regard is Matthew 12:40, and the wording is understood to be emphatic. In addition, the phrase "in three days" is constantly used amongst Hebrews to refer to the "day after tomorrow". See Luke 13:32-33, Lev 17:16-17, Esther 4:16, 5:1-8, Gen 47:17-18, I Sam 20:12, Acts 27:18-19, Ex 19:10,11 for examples of this use.

By the way, the phrase "on the third day" or something similar is used about 20 times to refer to the resurrection, whereas the "three days and three nights" phrase is used only ONCE. Matt 16:21, 17:23, 20:19, 26:61, 27:40, 27:64, Mark 9:31, 10:34, 14:58, 15:29, Luke 9:22, 13:32, 18:33, 24:7, 24:21, 24:46, John 2:19, 2:20, Acts 10:40, I Cor 15:4 versus Mt 12:40. So, this whole argument rests on ONE VERSE which employs an emphatic statement.

I encourage reading the booklet "Three Days and Three Nights" by Ralph Woodrow on this topic. Ralph held the position similar to the Armstrongites until he re-examined it years later, and wrote this book as a result. His books on the Babylonian mystery religion, Easter, and Christmas were standard fare amongst Armstrongites to bolster support for their faulty theology, until Ralph realized that much of his teaching in this regard was erroneous and led nothing to rotten fruit.

It also must be repeated that john832 is an Armstrongite, and they hold the position that Sunday-observing Christians are "so-called Christians" teaching a "false gospel" holding a "counterfeit Christianity" and their ministers are "ministers of Satan". He made rude remarks on my testimony which recounted rejecting Armstrong's bad theology, and that is how I know he is part of them. So, realize when he expresses views on these topics that he rejects the Christianity of those who are non-Armstrongites, and especially Sunday observers.

I think Armstrongites are particularly dangerous because it seeks to inject doubt into other Christians concerning various topics and convince them that they are following a counterfeit version of Christianity. They claim that they are the true church and everyone else within Christianity is deceived. It was convincing enough to fool me as a naïve 22 year old.

I shall worship everyday, and especially on the day my Lord and Savior was resurrected. Christianity's centerpiece is the resurrection as my signature indicates, and I meet to worship with God's people every Sunday. How's that for sickening sweet Protestantism, john832? :D

As a disclaimer, I have no issue with anyone who thinks differently on this topic or the Sabbath/Sunday issue if they are not divisive, declaring others to be pagan or unsaved or spiritually inferior. Paul allows for this in Romans 14. However, this is not the Armstrongite position. They seek to discredit the rest of Christianity. john832's participation on this forum must be viewed in this light. It is the same as a Jehovah's Witness giving his opinion here, only JWs are better known. I was a fully committed Armstrongite as a young believer for a decade so I know their views in this regard. Besides their position on the rest of Christianity, they claim they are going to be fully God in the resurrection, with the same attributes as God the Father and Jesus Christ, which is clearly blasphemous.
 
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sparkman

Guest
Here is a possible scenario which also allows for a Friday crucifixion/Sunday resurrection...it is from Chosen Peoples Ministries which demonstrated a Passover seder at my congregation on Sunday. The question is from their "frequently asked questions" section. They are a Messianic Jewish group.

Home

John says that Jesus died on the day of preparation of Passover Week, just before a special Sabbath (John 19:14, 31). The other three gospels seem to say that Jesus was arrested on the first day of Passover and crucified the following day. How can this apparent contradiction be resolved, and on what day of the week was Jesus crucified?

John 19:14 tells us that it was the day of preparation of Passover week, but it is not to be assumed that this was the preparation for the Passover. There were also the weekly Sabbath and the first day of the feast of unleavened bread taking place at that time.

John 19:31 tells us that it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. The special Sabbath may mean a weekly Sabbath that was special because it was at the time of Passover, or it may refer to the feast of unleavened bread.

A scenario to consider is as follows:


  • The Passover lamb was slain at twilight Wednesday, just as Thursday was beginning (Jewish days go from sunset to sunset).
  • Thursday was the preparation for the Passover and that evening (the beginning of Friday) the Passover was eaten-including the Passover meal eaten by Jesus and his disciples (initiating the Lord's Supper).
  • Later that night was Gethsemane, the arrest, and the trial by Annas and Caiphas, going very late into the night. The rooster crowed, indicating that it was early in the morning (John 19:27) and that was confirmed in John 19:28.
  • It was now Friday morning, still the day of Passover, and Jesus was taken by the chief priests and elders to Pilate (Matthew 27:1; John 19:28). Jesus was taken to be crucified, and was dead and buried before the weekly Sabbath began.
  • A guard was placed on the tomb for the Sabbath (Friday evening to Saturday sunset).
  • Early Sunday morning the tomb was discovered empty, because Jesus was risen.
It is sometimes thought that the day of the week in which Jesus was crucified was Wednesday or perhaps Thursday, but the above approach suggests Friday. It is true that Jesus was to be dead three days and three nights (Matthew 12:40), but we must understand that the Jews of that time considered any part of a day to be considered as a day, and so Jesus spoke of rising from the dead on the third day (Luke 24:46).

We of course know that the important thing is that He arose (1 Cor. 15:3-4)!

I am sure many here would consider themselves more knowledgeable about how Jews use their own language than people at Chosen People's Ministry though especially Armstrongites, so they will "correct" them on this possible scenario. :D

By the way they sponsor a M. Div in Messianic Jewish studies through a major Christian university..if I was 21 again I'd consider it.
 
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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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When the Pharisees asked Christ for a sign as proof of His Messiahship, being in
the grave three full days and three full nights was the one and only sign Jesus gave.
He meant what He said. In another passage, He even referred to the daylight portion
of a day as including 12 hours (John 11:9).

God’s days begin and end at sunset, the actual Passover ceremony that Jesus
observed with His disciples occurred Tuesday night—the beginning of
the 14th day of the first month on the Hebrew calendar.

On Tuesday afternoon, the disciples had asked Jesus about where to
make preparations for the service (Matthew 26:17).

That night, during the ceremony, Jesus changed the symbols,
explaining that He was now that Passover sacrifice (Matthew 26:26-28).

After that Passover service, they went out into the Mount of Olives (verse 30).
Christ spent much of the night praying while His disciples slept (verses 36-45).

Early Wednesday morning, while it was still dark (John 18:3),
Judas came with the multitude to arrest Christ (Matthew 26:47-50).

The crucifixion occurred later that same day

At the “ninth hour” of the 14th, Jesus cried out (Matthew 27:46-50; Mark 15:34-37;
Luke 23:44-46). This would have been at 3 p.m. on Wednesday afternoon.

That night, at sunset, marked the beginning of the first day of Unleavened Bread
—one of God’s holy days, as outlined in Leviticus 23 (see also Numbers 28:16-17).

The weekly Sabbath, of course, is on Saturday the 7th day of week.

But the first day of Unleavened Bread was the first of seven annual sabbaths instituted
by God. Since most people do not observe God’s holy days today, they do not know that
the Bible also refers to these days as sabbaths (see Leviticus 16:31; 23:24, 26-32, 39).


In John 19:30, Jesus bowed His head and said, “It is finished.” the very next verse:

“The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain
upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate
that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away” (verse 31).

Here is where so many scholars jump the track. They assume that because the day of
Christ’s crucifixion is referred to as “the preparation” prior to “the sabbath”
(Matthew 27:62; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54) that it must have been on Friday.

But as John points out, the preparation day was actually before a sabbath that
was a “high day”—an annual holy day.


John 19:32-42 explain what happened between Christ’s death and His burial.
42: “There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews’ preparation day;
for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.”

They buried Him late Wednesday afternoon, before sunset, because, according
to Jewish customs, all dead bodies had to be buried before the Sabbath,
whether weekly or annual. So Christ died on the afternoon of the 14th at 3 p.m.

He was buried later that afternoon before sunset. From that point, all we have
to do is count three days and three nights to know when He was resurrected.

the Gospel account in Matthew to continue following the course of events.

“Now the next day [after the Passover], that followed the day of the preparation,
the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, Saying, Sir, we remember
that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again”
(Matthew 27:62-63).

Even these deceived Jews knew what Christ said! After three days and three nights
—not one day and two nights—“I will rise again”!


So Pilate set a watch on the sepulcher for three days and nights. The story
continues in the first verse of the next chapter.

“In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week,
came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre” (Matthew 28:1).

Here again is where so many trip up—mainly because of a poor translation.

The King James, along with just about every other Bible version, translates
the first part of this verse, “In the end of the sabbath” or “after the sabbath.”


But if you study the Greek text, you learn that the word for sabbath is
actually plural! “After the sabbaths,” it should read.

Jesus crucified on a Wednesday afternoon and buried later that evening,
before sunset. The next day, Thursday, was an annual sabbath. The day
after that, was preparation day for the regular weekly Sabbath.

The reason Matthew refers to sabbaths, plural, is because there were
two sabbaths that week! When Matthew says Mary came early Sunday morning,
before dawn, after one of the sabbaths, he is referring to the weekly Sabbath.


There is one more sequence of events that provides additional support for
the 72-hour time frame and the fact that there were two “sabbaths” this week.

Mark 16:1 says Mary Magdalene and her companions bought spices
when the sabbath was past.” They were planning to prepare these
ointments and spices so that they might anoint the body of Jesus.

Yet Luke 23:56 says they prepared these spices
and then rested on the weekly Sabbath day.
Compare these two texts carefully.

Christ inspired four different Gospel accounts to be written so that all the
important details of His life might be canonized. Mark said these women
bought the spices after the sabbath was past. Luke said they prepared
the spices before the Sabbath arrived.


Those who hold to the Good Friday-Easter belief must conclude that these
verses are a glaring contradiction. They are not! They complement each
other perfectly, if you understand that there were two sabbaths that week.


The women bought the spices on Friday, after the annual sabbath on Thursday.
They prepared the spices that same day, before the weekly Sabbath,
and then rested on the Sabbath according to God’s command.

When Mary approached the tomb early Sunday morning, before sunrise,
an angel nearby exclaimed, “He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come,
see the place where the Lord lay” (Matthew 28:6).

There were no eyewitnesses to Christ’s resurrection,
and there is only one historical record: the Holy Bible.

Christ’s proof of His messiahship was singular:
the length of time He would be in the ground.

Yes indeed! He had already risen—the day before, just prior to sunset
at the end of the weekly Sabbath.

His death, burial and resurrection happened precisely the way
He prophesied it would happen.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,389
193
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"The Seventh day Adventist constitutes an unscriptural religious movement that developed as an outgrowth of the renewed interest which had arisen in the 19[SUP]th[/SUP] century concerning the immanency of the Second Advent of Christ. The Adventist derived their name from the erroneous Second Advent prophecies of William Miller and from their emphasis upon observance of the Jewish Sabbath Saturday as a memorial of God’s creation. Miller, a farmer, was born in Pittsfield, Massachusetts in 1782. He had predicted (on the basis of erroneous interpretations of certain passages in Daniel) that Christ would return by March 21, 1843 in spite of Jesus’ declaration that no man could know the time of His return (Matt 24:36). On the basis of his predictions many Millerites (as his followers were called) gave up their occupations, farmers left their crops in the field, while others fled the cities to await the judgment day. When the great day passed uneventfully, many were disillusioned. However, at Exeter New Hampshire during a camp meeting it was again predicted by another Adventist that Christ would return on October 22, 1844. After the second disappointment, Miller admitted that he himself had been in error, nevertheless some of his followers remained undaunted in spite of the prophesies. A solution was soon found to their disappointment. Hiram Adson, an Adventist, claim to have received a vision of Christ entering the Heavenly sanctuary (cf. Heb.8-9). This was interpreted as signifying that the Millerite prophesies had not been wrong, but simply misunderstood. Christ did not return to earth in 1844 but had entered into the Heavenly sanctuary to complete His atoning work in preparation for the Second Advent on earth. Thus the Adventists solved their dilemma by stating that Miller had been right as to the time but wrong as to the place of Christ’s appearance. At this juncture, Mrs. Ellen G White who claimed to have received special visions and revelations from God became the new leader of the Millerites. Her counsels lead to the organization of the Seventh Day Adventist church in 1863 at Battle Creek Michigan. She wrote some 45 books, one becoming the standard work for all Adventists, entitled, “The Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan”. Adventists carry on their work in a 185 countries and territories, have built numerous schools and colleges, and reported membership in excess of 2 million. The Seventh Day Adventist movement, which was built upon the false properties of William Miller and others (Miller later admitted his prophesies were erroneous), and upon the unscriptural teachings and alleged revelations of Ellen G White, is clearly unbiblical in many of its teachings and beliefs. Attempts have been made by later Adventists to gloss over some of the grocer unscriptural statements made by earlier Adventist, but the fact remains that the basic positions and beliefs have not changed in Adventisism. Several of the most obvious errors of the Seventh Day Adventists are:
1. The atonement of Christ is said to be unfinished.
Adventists claim that the atonement of Christ was not finished at Calvary for two reasons. First, although believers received “pardon” by Jesus’ blood, yet their sins remained upon the so-called “Books of Record”. In 1844 Christ is said to have entered into the heavenly sanctuary to complete His atoning work through the process of the removal of our sins from the heavenly sanctuary. This means, according to Ellen G White, that the sins of believers had been transferred to the heavenly sanctuary which is now being cleansed by Christ. He is at present investigating the Books of Record to determine who true believers are whose sins are to be blotted out.
In contradiction to this false doctrine which alleges that Christ’s atoning ministry is not finished, the scriptures clearly teach that His atoning work was completed once for all on the Cross when he cried,” It is finished” (John19:30). In refutation see: Heb10:11-18; 1Peter2:24; Col1:20; 1John1:7. Adventists claim that Christ’s atoning work is unfinished in the second place because Satan is sent to be the final sin bearer. Adventists teach that justice demands that while Christ suffered for our guilt, Satan must also be punished as the instigator for our sin. The scapegoat in the Old Testament had the sins of Israel confessed over it by the High priest, and was then sent away into the wilderness bearing away the sins of the people. Another goat had previously been slain as a sin-offering. Adventists teach that these two goats typify Christ and Satan. The first animal typified Christ who died for the sins of the people. These sins are ultimately to be placed upon Satan (the scapegoat) who will bear them away and He will then be destroyed. This erroneous doctrine of the Adventists ignores the fact that unlike Satan (1) both animals in the Old Testament were pure and spotless, and (2) they both typified Christ’s work of atonement. His sacrificial death was typified by the sacrificed goat, in His bearing away of our sins was signified by the second goat over whom Israel’s sins were confessed before it was sent into the wilderness bearing them away. It required two animals under OldTtestament ritual, not because they were to represent two different individuals, but because it would be impossible to portray what Christ was to accomplish with just one animal (1. His sacrificial death. 2. His bearing away of sin). Moreover, to say that Satan represents the sinbearer is blasphemy, for the scriptures declare that Jesus “ His own self bare our sins in His own body on a tree: (1 Pet.2:24). John the baptist pointed to Jesus, not to Satan, when he exclaimed, “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world” (John1:29).
2. Adventist are legalistic in their attitude toward Old Testament Law and observance of the Jewish Sabbath.
Adventists teachings imply that Christians are still “under the Law,” in the sense that the so-called Moral LAW and some aspects of the Jewish ceremonial restrictions are still legally binding, in spite of the clear teachings of the Scriptures to the contrary (see: Gal. 2-3; Rom. 6: 15; 2 Cor. 3:6-11). Vegetarianism is encouraged by Adventists, and so-called unclean foods (by O.T. standards), including meats, especially pork, are to be avoided, in spite of the clear teaching of Mark 7:14-19 and 1 Timothy 4:1-5. If the precepts of the Law are to be kept one wonders why Adventists fail to obey such commandments as the one concerning circumcision, for example; or, for that matter, why they insist upon observing the Sabbath commandment, but ignore the Sabbath restrictions which were inseparable from the Fourth Commandment (e.g., no burden was to be carried, Jer 17:21; no fire could be kindled, Exod. 35:3; or cooking done, Exod. 16:23). Violations were punishable by death!
Seventh Day Adventists thus insist that the seventh day or Sabbath (Saturday) is to be observed, and that the churches are merely following the later tradition of the Roman Catholics in observing the first day of the week (Sunday). They believe that Sunday observers will be those who take “the mark of the beast.” Some Jewish Christians in the earl days continued to respect the Sabbath, as well as the first day of the week, but the Gentile Church never did. Moreover, the New Testament itself gives evidence that during the first century the first day of the week (Sunday) replaced the Jewish Sabbath among Christian Jews in commemoration of Christ’s resurrection, and was designated as “the Lord’s Day” or “the first day of the week.: See Acts 20:7; Revelations 1:10; 1 Corinthians 16:2, for example. As the Sabbath meant something distinctive to Israel, so also the first day of the week has always had special significance to Christians. Furthermore, all the early Church Fathers spoke of the commemoration of the Lord’s Day (Sunday) by the churches long before the Roman Catholics sanctioned Sunday observance in the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] century A.D. Rome merely sanctioned for its members what the churches had been already observing for centuries. Moreover, the Sabbath Commandment, which was a covenant made only to Israel (as a sign between God and Israel, Exod. 31:12-17), was abolished with the rest of the Law at Calvary. This Fact is clearly taught in such passages as Colossians 2;13-17; Romans 2-8; Acts 15, and Galatians 2-3. The so-called “moral law” which contains the Fourth or Sabbath Commandment was an inseparable part of the one Law given to Israel which was annulled by the Cross. Adventists contend that the “moral law” is still binding on Christians, although most civil and ceremonial laws peculiar to Israel are done away with. However, such teaching reveals a lack of understanding of the nature of Old Testament Law. The Law was not divided into three laws as the Adventists Contend (moral, civil, ceremonial); there was but one Law with 3 aspects: Moral, civil, and ceremonial. The Scriptures show that if we are bound to keep one part of the Law, then we must keep it all, “for it is written, Cursed is everyone that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them” (Gal. 3:10). The same verse states in no unmistakable terms, “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse” (cf. vs. 21). Since the Adventists cannot keep the Law (anymore than could Israel before them, then to place oneself under Law in any sense is to be under its condemnation and curse (Gal. 2-3). This does not imply, however that the moral “principles” of the Law are invalid, but that the Christian is in no sense “under the law, but under grace.” (Rom. 6:14) Its is still a sin to steal, lie, kill, or to commit adultery; the abolition of the dispensation of the Law did not abolish God’s requirement of righteous conduct on the part of His Children (Rom. 3:28, 31; 6:1-2). Some Adventists contend, of course that salvation is by faith and not by the works of the Law; but this does not alter the fact that they insist that the “moral law” is legally binding upon the Christians, that Christians are obligated to keep the Jewish Sabbath commandment, and that they should observe certain Old Testament dietary restrictions contained in the ceremonial laws. The net result is that Adventists subject themselves to the bondage of the Law although it was abolished at Calvary.

3. Adventists teach the error of “soul sleep”
The soul is said to be unconscious or “asleep” between death and the resurrection. Adventists take literally Biblical references to the dead being “asleep” and such passages as Acts 7:59-60 (when Stephen died it is said that “he fell asleep”) and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. The Scriptures, however, declare that the soul or person is conscious after the death of the body and that to speak of the dead as “asleep” is simply a figure of speech (indicative of the appearance of the body upon death). See in refutation: Matthew 17:1-3, Luke 16:19-31; 23:40-43; Phillippians 1:21-23; 2 Corinthians 5:1-9; Psalm 73:24; Revelation 6:9-11; Ecclesiastes 12:7. These passages clearly prove that the dead saints (and sinners) are conscious and active, and that the saved are present with the Lord immediately. Moreover, the saints who “sleep in Jesus” will come back with Him at the Second Advent, indicating that they had been consciously present with Him all along, not asleep in some grave (1 Thess.3:13;4:14).

4.Eternal punishment is denied.
Adventists erroneously contend that according to such passages as Malachi 4:3, Psalm 52:1-5, and Job 21:30 the wicked, together with Satan, will be ultimately annihilated. See in refutation: Isaiah 66:24; Matthew 25:46; Mark 9:43-48; Luke 16:19-31; John 3:36; Revelation 14:9-11; 20:10. These texts clearly refute the erroneous Adventist’s teaching that “eternal punishment” is not to be taken to mean “an endless process of punishment”, but that it implies a final, once-for-all punishment-by annihilation of the wicked forever.
It is interesting that both Charles T. Russel, founder of the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Herbert W. Armstrong, founder of the Worldwide Church of God, both of whom deny the eternal punishment of the wicked, came under the influence of Seventh Day Adventist’s teachings before their own cults." : Quoted from a non-copyrighted book: ​ ​Every Wind of Doctrine Pages 127-133 By Th. D. Hobart E Freeman
I am not an SDA and disagree with several of their doctrines but how about we cut the attacks? One can just as easily attack Methodist, Baptists and Lutherans but it really serves no purpose to generally attack a denomination. Rather, how about some meaningful exegesis concerning doctrines?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Here is a possible scenario which also allows for a Friday crucifixion/Sunday resurrection...it is from Chosen Peoples Ministries which demonstrated a Passover seder at my congregation on Sunday. The question is from their "frequently asked questions" section. They are a Messianic Jewish group.

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John says that Jesus died on the day of preparation of Passover Week, just before a special Sabbath (John 19:14, 31). The other three gospels seem to say that Jesus was arrested on the first day of Passover and crucified the following day. How can this apparent contradiction be resolved, and on what day of the week was Jesus crucified?

John 19:14 tells us that it was the day of preparation of Passover week, but it is not to be assumed that this was the preparation for the Passover. There were also the weekly Sabbath and the first day of the feast of unleavened bread taking place at that time.

John 19:31 tells us that it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. The special Sabbath may mean a weekly Sabbath that was special because it was at the time of Passover, or it may refer to the feast of unleavened bread.

A scenario to consider is as follows:


  • The Passover lamb was slain at twilight Wednesday, just as Thursday was beginning (Jewish days go from sunset to sunset).
  • Thursday was the preparation for the Passover and that evening (the beginning of Friday) the Passover was eaten-including the Passover meal eaten by Jesus and his disciples (initiating the Lord's Supper).
  • Later that night was Gethsemane, the arrest, and the trial by Annas and Caiphas, going very late into the night. The rooster crowed, indicating that it was early in the morning (John 19:27) and that was confirmed in John 19:28.
  • It was now Friday morning, still the day of Passover, and Jesus was taken by the chief priests and elders to Pilate (Matthew 27:1; John 19:28). Jesus was taken to be crucified, and was dead and buried before the weekly Sabbath began.
  • A guard was placed on the tomb for the Sabbath (Friday evening to Saturday sunset).
  • Early Sunday morning the tomb was discovered empty, because Jesus was risen.
It is sometimes thought that the day of the week in which Jesus was crucified was Wednesday or perhaps Thursday, but the above approach suggests Friday. It is true that Jesus was to be dead three days and three nights (Matthew 12:40), but we must understand that the Jews of that time considered any part of a day to be considered as a day, and so Jesus spoke of rising from the dead on the third day (Luke 24:46).

We of course know that the important thing is that He arose (1 Cor. 15:3-4)!

I am sure many here would consider themselves more knowledgeable about how Jews use their own language than people at Chosen People's Ministry though especially Armstrongites, so they will "correct" them on this possible scenario. :D

By the way they sponsor a M. Div in Messianic Jewish studies through a major Christian university..if I was 21 again I'd consider it.
Only problem with a Friday Crucifixion and an Sunday morning resurrection is that I can count.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
I am not an SDA and disagree with several of their doctrines but how about we cut the attacks? One can just as easily attack Methodist, Baptists and Lutherans but it really serves no purpose to generally attack a denomination. Rather, how about some meaningful exegesis concerning doctrines?
Because Ellen White was a false prophet, and people are deceived, these same people spreading her lies. There are still those who do not approve of ecumenicism, at the expense of truth. The Bible admonishes all to sound doctrine, and repudiates doctrines of demons. You can tell people not to be fundamentalists, but we won't listen. You've got a page down key. Use it, as opposed to trying to tell people what they may or may not express.

You're also only casting suspicion upon yourself, trying to silence opposition to cults. Adventists and others are actually taught to hide what they are, to sneakily spread their doctrinal poison. You ever heard the saying you can know people by their friends? Why are you so eager to silence opposition to doctrines of demons? Would you welcome Satan into the body of Christ? Admonish people not to disagree with him, not to hurt his feelings? After all, he just wants everybody deceived and damned. What could be wrong with that?


 
S

sparkman

Guest
Only problem with a Friday Crucifixion and an Sunday morning resurrection is that I can count.
But, you don't understand Greek nor did Herbert Armstrong.

sabbaton has a weekly context as I've explained, and reading things according to your theory is awkward. You have to switch from festival to Sabbath, with the author making no distinction within the narrative. Nor is sabbaton used in reference to festivals in the NT.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,389
193
63
Because Ellen White was a false prophet, and people are deceived, these same people spreading her lies. There are still those who do not approve of ecumenicism, at the expense of truth. The Bible admonishes all to sound doctrine, and repudiates doctrines of demons. You can tell people not to be fundamentalists, but we won't listen. You've got a page down key. Use it, as opposed to trying to tell people what they may or may not express.

You're also only casting suspicion upon yourself, trying to silence opposition to cults. Adventists and others are actually taught to hide what they are, to sneakily spread their doctrinal poison. You ever heard the saying you can know people by their friends? Why are you so eager to silence opposition to doctrines of demons? Would you welcome Satan into the body of Christ? Admonish people not to disagree with him, not to hurt his feelings? After all, he just wants everybody deceived and damned. What could be wrong with that?


Nice exegesis there.