J
jaybird88
Guest
it was an Essene tradition and had to do with purification and the life giving properties of water. John most likely was an Essene. and possibly Jesus to.
John baptizes Jesus
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So... following Jesus is all right for me, because I have been given an eternal life, I got baptized. All those who heard the Gospel, those who known Christ through believing must follow him in the waters of baptism.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
R
RobbyEarl
Guest
It's too late for me to debate this matter as it has been done 1,000 times over. But what is the object of your faith? The cross or water baptism there can be only one.
The object of my faith is Christ who gave me eternal life and never will I be perish because I am protected by God's hand.
P
popeye
Guest
and BINGO,WE HAVE A WINNER.
JOHN represented the old covenant.
He and Zacharias were the legitimate high priests,while Caiaphas was a roman appointee.
What happened at Jesus baptism was A CHANGE IN PRIESTHOOD.
That is WHY it HAD TO BE JOHN that baptized him.
ONLY JOHN COULD DO IT.
That marked Jesus ministry. The priesthood of Judah has arrived at the baptism.
Jordon represents change. That is why it happened at /in Jordan.
New high priest after a new order.
W/O this ingredient there could be no earthly ministry or sacrifice of the Holy Lamb of God.
THAT IS WHY Jesus told John"to fulfill righteousness"
Here it says,
Luke 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests,
the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John:
since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Moses also died before passing over the Jordan (at 120 years old) Joshua took them over, although not sure about what is meant by Judah and the priesthood, if Christ were on earth he should not be a priest it says because Christ sprang from Judah, but the priest for ever after the order of Melchezidek according to the oath of God I can see.
I always thought the 120 years of man left as named before the flood seemed to match Moses years in the figure of Jordan (before which he died) and Joshua went over.
Luke 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests,
the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John:
since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Moses also died before passing over the Jordan (at 120 years old) Joshua took them over, although not sure about what is meant by Judah and the priesthood, if Christ were on earth he should not be a priest it says because Christ sprang from Judah, but the priest for ever after the order of Melchezidek according to the oath of God I can see.
I always thought the 120 years of man left as named before the flood seemed to match Moses years in the figure of Jordan (before which he died) and Joshua went over.
Your beliefs seem Your beliefs seem to be as misplaced as some of your underlines.You seem quite proud of trying to find as many ways as you can to try to prove that a person isn't saved until they're water baptised.It's one thing if you are determined within yourself that you have to be water-baptised in order to be saved, but why this obsessive insistance on keeping others from being able to enjoy the salvation that God gave to them as a gift through faith in Jesus' shed blood unless and until THEY get water-baptised, too. You don't seem as concerned for their salvation and freedom as you do about patting yourself on the back for working so hard at earning brownie points with others who like your posts.
Why don't they just get baptized? Pretty simple. Or is the enjoyment a period of "grace" in which they can feel like they don't have to do something that the mean-mistreater Jesus told them to?
All who had FAITH?
Why don't YOU just get water-baptized? Why are you like pilgrims obsessed with other ppl getting water-baptized? Don't you have enough confidence in God that if He wants a child of His to get water-baptized, He knows how to bring that about?
Or do you still think that person isn't a child of God UNTIL they get water-baptized?
Why don't you just get honest and say it? You don't believe a person is saved,
born-again, a child of God UNTIL they are water-baptized, do you?
R
RobbyEarl
Guest
It's the same as being circumcised, Paul fought this through out His ministry and we are still fighting the Judiazers to this day.
Feel free to quote me concerning the problem, the obsession, can you show me a clip of this, a copy past of what exactly is the problem, thanks.
R
RobbyEarl
Guest
I just really liked that post, RobbyEarl!
__________________________________________
Btw, Here's just a sample...this was from her #55:
Johns baptism with water unto repentance
John came in the way of righteousness, they fulfilled it together
And Jesus begins baptizing with water along with John
The Pharisees have found out that Jesus is water baptizing more disciples the John
So he takes off because this there is no room in them for his word or Gods counsel
Jesus states of John,They ask if Jesus has a devil also
After Jesus Christ's resurrection he said,Peter preaches baptism
Philip also preached Jesus Christ and baptized in water
Peter commanded the baptism of the Gentiles in water
Peter did not command circumcision As they were earlier baptized in Acts 10:47-48
Like figure whereunto doth also now save us
The blood of Jesus and our bodies washed with water
One body (even of believers) one Spirit, one Lord and one baptism
As Christ the Lord (the head of the body) went into water
(came up and out) the Spirit of God descended
These shown together (buried in one and raised into the other in the same)
Buried with him in baptism ""wherein"" ye are also risen with him
"through faith" of "the operation of God"
The doctrine of baptisms Paul was commanded to be baptized
Jesus said it would be told Paul what he should do
The word Jesus had spoken God bearing (the above) witness in the same following these
Shows in Jesus the same signs performed among them
We also being buried with him by baptism into death Romans 6:4
The baptizing of the circumcision
As it says,The same message given to the Gentiles
who had already received the Holy Ghost Johns baptism where is it from?
They would not submit to Gods counsel or go in the way of righteousness
They rejected the counsel of God against themselves and would not justify God in that doingas the people did. Johns baptism where is it from? As John was sent to do so. He preached Jesus Christ As Christ was manifested in the flesh so also would he be in us ......
All that was interspersed with OVER OneHundredFifty verses of scripture in an attempt to prove a person is not saved without water-baptism. All in one post.
Two posts later, #57, Dozens more scriptures repeated with more of the commentary mixed in:
You would have to quote my words exactly concerning your issues,
other then water or the Holy Ghost if you would like to add that Jesus was not having his disciples baptize with water but with the Holy Ghost in John
(contrary to Acts 1:1 included below then feel free to show it.
Jesus went out to John to be water baptized
Even Jesus baptized while John was Not
the Pharisees and lawyers rejected God in rejecting John's baptism
And these found out Jesus baptized even more then John
You could chose to say that Jesus was baptizing many
(even more then John) and with the Holy Ghost
in John 3:22 before he was glorified
But we would have to make it koolaid for the following reasons
After His resurrection he commanded them the same saying,
Even as we see Peter preaching the same in Acts 2
And Philip here, baptizing the enuch in Acts 8
And later Peter also commanding the Gentiles
who already received the Holy Ghost to be baptized
And we also see later at the counsel where the Pharisee
were adding circumcision to Christ's command
Peter reproves them here over adding circumcision
after the manner of Moses here Peter was not reproving baptism
asit was Peter who commanded the Gentiles to be baptized(not circumcised)
As these indeed show their hearts were purified by faith
Peter shows there is no difference between circumcision
(after the flesh) or uncircumcision (after the flesh)
Peter is not commanding circumcision
(as they who believed of the Pharisees were)
Peter did however command the Gentiles to be baptized
as he did the other here
Regardless whether the Holy Spirit come upon them after or before,
both were still commanded to be baptized just not circumcised,
See also Galation 5:2Again, here the cicumcision observing
the Gentiles received the Holy Ghost, the command still follows ......
That was two posts, with close to TwoHundred scripture verses, all attempting to prove no salvation without water-baptism. There were plenty more, dozens more, in 3 or 4 other threads going back days upon days, pretty much insisting on the same 'water-baptism required for salvation' line,
but those threads have been removed, how conveeenient.
Just copy [ast the post and put a X near the problem verses
Here is post 55 to hornetguy
I agree with you, and not to come in between here, but just to have somewhat of a non combatant post to springboard off of I am using yours (but just to post to the thread some references if these be helpful to anyone else).
I couldnt even post them all but here are a few this way
Johns baptism with water unto repentance
John came in the way of righteousness, they fulfilled it together
And Jesus begins baptizing with water along with John
The Pharisees have found out that Jesus is water baptizing more disciples the John
So he takes off because this there is no room in them for his word or Gods counsel
Jesus states of John,
They ask if Jesus has a devil also
After Jesus Christ's resurrection he said,
Peter preaches baptism
Philip also preached Jesus Christ and baptized in water
Peter commanded the baptism of the Gentiles in water
Peter did not command circumcision
As they were earlier baptized in Acts 10:47-48
Like figure whereunto doth also now save us
The blood of Jesus and our bodies washed with water
One body (even of believers) one Spirit, one Lord and one baptism
As Christ the Lord (the head of the body) went into water (came up and out) the Spirit of God descended
These shown together (buried in one and raised into the other in the same)
Buried with him in baptism ""wherein"" ye are also risen with him
"through faith" of "the operation of God"
The doctrine of baptisms
Paul was commanded to be baptized
Jesus said it would be told Paul what he should do
The word Jesus had spoken
God bearing (the above) witness in the same following these
Shows in Jesus the same signs performed among them
We also being buried with him by baptism into death Romans 6:4
The baptizing of the circumcision
As it says,
The same message given to the Gentiles who had already received the Holy Ghost
Johns baptism where is it from?
They would not submit to Gods counsel or go in the way of righteousness
They rejected the counsel of God against themselves and would not justify God in that doing
as the people did.
Johns baptism where is it from?
As John was sent to do so. He preached Jesus Christ
As Christ was manifested in the flesh so also would he be in us
I will wait for the particular problem or obsession you speak of
Here is post 55 to hornetguy
I agree with you, and not to come in between here, but just to have somewhat of a non combatant post to springboard off of I am using yours (but just to post to the thread some references if these be helpful to anyone else).
I couldnt even post them all but here are a few this way
Johns baptism with water unto repentance
John came in the way of righteousness, they fulfilled it together
And Jesus begins baptizing with water along with John
The Pharisees have found out that Jesus is water baptizing more disciples the John
So he takes off because this there is no room in them for his word or Gods counsel
Jesus states of John,
They ask if Jesus has a devil also
After Jesus Christ's resurrection he said,
Peter preaches baptism
Philip also preached Jesus Christ and baptized in water
Peter commanded the baptism of the Gentiles in water
Peter did not command circumcision
As they were earlier baptized in Acts 10:47-48
Like figure whereunto doth also now save us
The blood of Jesus and our bodies washed with water
One body (even of believers) one Spirit, one Lord and one baptism
As Christ the Lord (the head of the body) went into water (came up and out) the Spirit of God descended
These shown together (buried in one and raised into the other in the same)
Buried with him in baptism ""wherein"" ye are also risen with him
"through faith" of "the operation of God"
The doctrine of baptisms
Paul was commanded to be baptized
Jesus said it would be told Paul what he should do
The word Jesus had spoken
God bearing (the above) witness in the same following these
Shows in Jesus the same signs performed among them
We also being buried with him by baptism into death Romans 6:4
The baptizing of the circumcision
As it says,
The same message given to the Gentiles who had already received the Holy Ghost
Johns baptism where is it from?
They would not submit to Gods counsel or go in the way of righteousness
They rejected the counsel of God against themselves and would not justify God in that doing
as the people did.
Johns baptism where is it from?
As John was sent to do so. He preached Jesus Christ
As Christ was manifested in the flesh so also would he be in us
I will wait for the particular problem or obsession you speak of
So in light of post#74, I ask again...
What is with some ppl that seem obsessed with insisting that others must be water-baptized in order to be saved? If you want to get water-baptized, go jump in the lake. Please don't tell ppl they're not saved if they don't dive in after you. thanks
What is with some ppl that seem obsessed with insisting that others must be water-baptized in order to be saved? If you want to get water-baptized, go jump in the lake. Please don't tell ppl they're not saved if they don't dive in after you. thanks
Here is post #57 please do the same make an Red X by the problem verse
You would have to quote my words exactly concerning your issues, other then water or the Holy Ghost if you would like to add that Jesus was not having his disciples baptize with water but with the Holy Ghost in John (contrary to Acts 1:1 included below then feel free to show it.
Jesus went out to John to be water baptized
Even Jesus baptized while John was
Not the Pharisees and lawyers rejected God in rejecting John's baptism
And these found out Jesus baptized even more then John
You could chose to say that Jesus was baptizing many (even more then John) and with the Holy Ghost in John 3:22 before he was glorified
But we would have to make it koolaid for the following reasons
After His resurrection he commanded them the same saying,
Even as we see Peter preaching the same in Acts 2
And Philip here, baptizing the enuch in Acts 8
And later Peter also commanding the Gentiles who already received the Holy Ghost to be baptized
And we also see later at the counsel where the Pharisee were adding circumcision to Christ's command
Peter reproves them here over adding circumcision after the manner of Moses here
Peter was not reproving baptism asit was Peter who commanded the Gentiles to be baptized
(not circumcised)
As these indeed show their hearts were purified by faith
Peter shows there is no difference between circumcision (after the flesh) or uncircumcision (after the flesh)
Peter is not commanding circumcision (as they who believed of the Pharisees were) Peter did however command the Gentiles to be baptized as he did the other here
Regardless whether the Holy Spirit come upon them after or before, both were still commanded to be baptized just not circumcised, See also Galation 5:2
Again, here the cicumcision observing the Gentiles received the Holy Ghost, the command still follows
I will wait for the same here
I like to be quoted exactly though, and there is a good reason for that.
You would have to quote my words exactly concerning your issues, other then water or the Holy Ghost if you would like to add that Jesus was not having his disciples baptize with water but with the Holy Ghost in John (contrary to Acts 1:1 included below then feel free to show it.
Jesus went out to John to be water baptized
Even Jesus baptized while John was
Not the Pharisees and lawyers rejected God in rejecting John's baptism
And these found out Jesus baptized even more then John
You could chose to say that Jesus was baptizing many (even more then John) and with the Holy Ghost in John 3:22 before he was glorified
But we would have to make it koolaid for the following reasons
After His resurrection he commanded them the same saying,
Even as we see Peter preaching the same in Acts 2
And Philip here, baptizing the enuch in Acts 8
And later Peter also commanding the Gentiles who already received the Holy Ghost to be baptized
And we also see later at the counsel where the Pharisee were adding circumcision to Christ's command
Peter reproves them here over adding circumcision after the manner of Moses here
Peter was not reproving baptism asit was Peter who commanded the Gentiles to be baptized
(not circumcised)
As these indeed show their hearts were purified by faith
Peter shows there is no difference between circumcision (after the flesh) or uncircumcision (after the flesh)
Peter is not commanding circumcision (as they who believed of the Pharisees were) Peter did however command the Gentiles to be baptized as he did the other here
Regardless whether the Holy Spirit come upon them after or before, both were still commanded to be baptized just not circumcised, See also Galation 5:2
Again, here the cicumcision observing the Gentiles received the Holy Ghost, the command still follows
I will wait for the same here
I like to be quoted exactly though, and there is a good reason for that.
Also where is that expressed in the above, please quote me, thanks
I have the posts I save threads (as I stated in another thread), I am not the who was throwing fits and reporting to get it closed, the convenience would be on the other parts part, I saved all the posts (my own as well as their accusation with no proof whatsoever)
For example (just to provide small clips) as I dont want to fill up the thread,
The posts
Just ask the moderator to open it up to you and take the posts you want to charge me with what you feel I stated wrong, all I did throughout that thread was state "quote me" and you boys never did, and would just tell me I didnt believe what I posted
Example here...
He was adressed twice (slipping off both times after asking there) and that thread is marked with more posts within it (you can check)
Or this one
[TABLE="class: post_body, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: post, colspan: 2"]
I made a marker here of the whole back and forth
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135172-filled-holy-spirit-63.html#post2597281 deleted
More specifically telling I keep acknowledging this earlier on post 1199 here
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135172-filled-holy-spirit-60.html#post2597147 deleted
These were removed from the site,
The convenience isnt mine really, it conceals what you guys did, but I have this little problem on my end, I can be sort of nuts about recording things (pop up conversations, phone conversations) etc. Its this thing I have but has benefited me to do so to prove things in various situations
I wanted to keep the evidences though[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I always keep my posts, and the ones people accuse me on so I can follow what their problem is and refer back to the nothingness they always post back to me, I have them all
So in light of post#74, I ask again...
What is with some ppl that seem obsessed with insisting that others must be water-baptized in order to be saved? If you want to get water-baptized, go jump in the lake. Please don't tell ppl they're not saved if they don't dive in after you. thanks
I missed this. I am certain you will provide these words of mine (thanks)
(Good luck with that)
J
JustWhoIAm
Guest
Our salvation does not come from water baptism, but from Christ.
We cannot hope to get to the Father through the law, through tradition.
Should we get baptized to be obedient? Yes. Scripture clearly teaches that.
But if a man cannot get baptized for some reason God isn't going to hold it against him. What matters is that a man's heart is centered on the love of God and obeying him to the best of his ability.
(these things are scriptural, CBA to get chapter/verse ATM)
We cannot hope to get to the Father through the law, through tradition.
Should we get baptized to be obedient? Yes. Scripture clearly teaches that.
But if a man cannot get baptized for some reason God isn't going to hold it against him. What matters is that a man's heart is centered on the love of God and obeying him to the best of his ability.
(these things are scriptural, CBA to get chapter/verse ATM)