my last argument for obedience

[jasonj]

Hi JasonJ,

I appreciate your passion to obey God and that's correct, else we are nothing but as religious man not bridleth his tongue James 1:26. God love us much though we sinned which resulted to death of all mankind as death passed from all men (Romans 6:23). Because we cannot saved ourselves from the spiritual death. Christ became the passover lamb, He died, buried and raised to life to give us eternal life and when you accept Christ by faith as personal Saviour he has given us eternal life. Now, eternal life has already been given to us, we are now a children of God (John 1:12) and became babes in Christ, the bible says as a "newborn babes desireth the sincere milk of the word that ye may grow thereby" (1 Peter 2:2). Part of our growth as a Christian is obeying Christ's commands. THUS, our faith is the root and our obedience to God and Christ is the fruit as "ye shall knew them by their fruit."

God bless you,

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

agreed may I ask what happens to the tree that never produces fruit? what Jesus says about it? the patient Gardner? what Happens if were fertilized and never produce the fruit of obedience?

 

[Grace777x70]

We have to know the gospel of the grace of Christ and the love of God for us in order to grow up in Him. For the person "in Christ" fear of punishment and being kicked out of God's kingdom is not the gospel of Christ. John below describes this very thing.

1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But many of us sure want to take His place, and declare OUR OWN standard.

No doubt, but that would be not walking by the spirit.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This may come as a surprise to some people, but I honestly do believe BOTH of them are. And, I mean that in a positive and good way for each of them.

If both men are walking by the spirit, then yeah they're both doing the will of GOD.

 

[ember]

It's interesting...grace, faith, forgiveness, works, obedience...these are all basic tenets of the Christian faith, yes?

somehow, misunderstanding gets in and chews away at the fabric of what one poster says to another

(let's just forget a moment that some my deliberately go at that with scissors)

lately I have been accused of some things that are not at all true...but God knows

the heart judging really needs to stop...you are trampling all over God's personal garden when you do that

frankly, I am thankful for the mods doing a clean-up....I welcome them anytime

 

[Grace777x70]

Fear ( as in terror ), condemnation, guilt and shame are NOT tools of heaven and God doesn't subcontract them out. They are tools of the enemy.

Fear as in terror for the unbeliever will be real when they stand before God without the righteousness of Christ. For us believers that are in Christ - fear means an awe and reverence for the awesomeness of our Lord and God.

 

[jasonj]

Does Scripture say: "This is God's will, that He Sanctify you." Setting aside your involvement as an unnecessary willful party?
Or does it say: "This is the will of God, your Sanctification...." (Thessalonians 4:3). Expecting you to participate in the death to the right of yourself, equally disposed, as God deals with Sin and we deal with sins in our New Creation? And yet, ironically it is only in the experiences God places before us that we can come to such a personal revelation of ourselves. But as much as we are responsible to act toward God, God is Supernaturally Faithful towards us first.

"But of Him you are in Christ Jesus who became for us Sanctification." (1 Col. 1:30).

Thus, we have a two-sided coin here in Sanctification. We have a death side, and we have a life side. The death side Jesus contends will take our role of will to supply; Christ not withstanding. While the life side takes God's role thru Jesus Christ; our will not withstanding. Sanctification requires our coming to the place of death. (Gal. 2:20): only becomes real and not pretentious when we come to the revelation that we are willing to lay down our lives along side the foot of Jesus at the Cross. After all, this is a relationship, and not a dictatorship, or robotic relationship. We were bought at a price, but we must make our will be freely given thru obedience or it is law once more. Our "Aha" moment of "I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live...." Must be our experience as God affords its opportunity.

But many of us spend so much time there we become morbid. There is always a tremendous battle before Sanctification is realized - something within us pushing with resentment against the demands of Christ. When the Holy Spirit begins to show us what Sanctification means, the struggle starts immediately. Jesus said, "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate....his own life....he cannot be My disciple." (Luke 14:26).

On the life side of Sanctification there is a mystery; that the perfect qualities of Jesus Christ are imparted as a gift to me, not gradually, but instantly once I enter by faith into the realization that He "became for (me)....Sanctification...." Sanctification means nothing less than the Holiness of Jesus becoming mine and being exhibited in my life.

Thus, it is coupled with the realness of me being crucified with Christ, and the wonderful secret of living a Holy life unpretentiously, then, not imitating Jesus, but actually and honestly letting the perfect qualities of Jesus exhibit themselves in my human flesh, by way of intentionality to obey Christ from the love of my heart, and nothing else lest it be works, or the law. But this, in no way, lessens the need for the fruit to be evident, in successful obedience wrought out by Christ. In fact, it only increases it by the standards of Christs narrow purity over our own..

Sanctification is, "Christ in you...." (Col. 1:27); not compromised by any rebellion in us; Gods forgiveness thru confession not withstanding by way of need and not by way of inevitability.

Jesus nature is this " my food is to do the will of God" that's what His nature MAKES our heart into through obeying the truth. The grace of pauls words is wonderful and beautiful and true to every degree. I thank God for the apostle pauls words , they really were essential, but again the rest is essential also to the one saved from the flames because of Grace. If Jesus is real to us, is all the difference really. He really did do what He said, what do we now say? and DO?

 

[Gr8grace]

agreed may I ask what happens to the tree that never produces fruit? what Jesus says about it? the patient Gardner? what Happens if were fertilized and never produce the fruit of obedience?

The patient Gardner LIFTS IT UP, RAISES IT UP, so the light can reach it.

New American Standard Bible
"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away(airó: to raise, take up, lift); and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

 

[jasonj]

Fear ( as in terror ), condemnation, guilt and shame are NOT tools of heaven and God doesn't subcontract them out. They are tools of the enemy.

Fear as in terror for the unbeliever will be real when they stand before God without the righteousness of Christ. For us believers that are in Christ - fear means an awe and reverence for the awesomeness of our Lord and God.

there is no fear in obeying the words of Christ, only eternal Life

 

[psalm6819]

agreed may I ask what happens to the tree that never produces fruit? what Jesus says about it? the patient Gardner? what Happens if were fertilized and never produce the fruit of obedience?

Hi Jasonj, I live in Oceana County in Michigan. It's an agricultural area. Right now, the peach trees are beginning to flower, however the apple trees look dead-but they aren't. It's just not thier season right now.

The asparagus is sprouting, the corn looks dead but it's not, It needs a more sun and next month it will be sprouting.

People are the same, each in thier own season.

 

[jasonj]

The patient Gardner LIFTS IT UP, RAISES IT UP, so the light can reach it.

New American Standard Bible
"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away(airó: to raise, take up, lift); and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

Luke 13......6Then Jesus told this parable: “A man had a fig tree that was planted in his vineyard. He went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any. 7So he said to the keeper of the vineyard, ‘Look, for the past three years I have come to search for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Therefore cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’
8‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone again this year, until I dig around it and fertilize it. 9If it bears fruit next year, fine. But if not, you can cut it down.’”


Kinda was looking at the lesson here fruit is what Gods will is for us, there is a point we need to just do what He says. truth

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Fear ( as in terror ), condemnation, guilt and shame are NOT tools of heaven and God doesn't subcontract them out. They are tools of the enemy.

Fear as in terror for the unbeliever will be real when they stand before God without the righteousness of Christ. For us believers that are in Christ - fear means an awe and reverence for the awesomeness of our Lord and God.

Yeah sure...

But I will show you whom you should fear: fear the one who has authority, after the killing, to throw [you] into hell! Yes, I tell you, fear this one!Luke 12:5​

Whoa! Awesome dude!

 

[FreeNChrist]

Jesus nature is this " my food is to do the will of God" that's what His nature MAKES our heart into through obeying the truth. The grace of pauls words is wonderful and beautiful and true to every degree. I thank God for the apostle pauls words , they really were essential, but again the rest is essential also to the one saved from the flames because of Grace. If Jesus is real to us, is all the difference really. He really did do what He said, what do we now say? and DO?

If Jesus is real to us we will not lock Him up in the pages of a book and make Him nothing more than words written in a book.

 

[ember]

I think there can sometimes be a thin line in people understanding how the Spirit of God works...He does not condemn

The very word condemn means to :

con·demn
kənˈdem/
verb

• 1.
  express complete disapproval of, typically in public; censure.
  "fair-minded people declined to condemn her on mere suspicion"
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]censure, criticize, denounce, revile, blame, chastise, berate,reprimand, rebuke, reprove, take to task, find fault with; More
  
  
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  
  
  
  
• 2.
  sentence (someone) to a particular punishment, especially death."the rebels had been condemned to death"
  

so are those things what we believe the Holy Spirit is up to? I would think not

Jesus Himself said He did not come into the world to condemn the world...but that the world, through HIM, might have life AND have it more abundantly

When we focus on sin, it is my experience we become ingrown...without meaning to, we are looking at ourself instead of looking up from where our salvation comes

Now, that in no way means I am free to sin...it is the law of God IN my heart that is made real in love for my Savior that is the catalyst for actions of obedience

So, we have a heart that God promised...the heart of flesh...and that all covered by the sacrifice of Jesus who alone is righteous and blameless before God. We, are IN Him and staying there, we stay there

It is always all about Him

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

there is no fear in obeying the words of Christ, only eternal Life

For some reason, though, the thought of obeying the words of Christ strikes terror into the followers of the gospel of lawless grace. IMHO

 

[ember]

For some reason, though, the thought of obeying the words of Christ strikes terror into the followers of the gospel of lawless grace. IMHO

in that case, it is a GOOD thing that none of us here follow a gospel of lawless grace

I don't know who those folks are that you are so well acquainted with, but I think we can all agree that because of the cross and our Holy Spirit given understanding, we all know better than to think or believe such a thing

Isn't God wonderful to keep us from such things?

 

[Magenta]

Perfect love casts out fear.

 

[FreeNChrist]

For some reason, though, the thought of obeying the words of Christ strikes terror into the followers of the gospel of lawless grace. IMHO

Rather, it's the thought of obeying the actual living risen Christ that strikes terror in those whose desire it is to remain in control of their lives, including their eternal destiny.

 

[Gr8grace]

Luke 13......6Then Jesus told this parable: “A man had a fig tree that was planted in his vineyard. He went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any. 7So he said to the keeper of the vineyard, ‘Look, for the past three years I have come to search for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Therefore cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’
8‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone again this year, until I dig around it and fertilize it. 9If it bears fruit next year, fine. But if not, you can cut it down.’”


Kinda was looking at the lesson here fruit is what Gods will is for us, there is a point we need to just do what He says. truth

We are just a branch. Not a tree.

The fig tree speaks of Israel as a client nation(the nation that spreads the Gospel) if Israel didn't start to spread the Gospel again, and soon, God was going to cut them down and use a another nation to spread His Gospel...........which eventually went to Rome. A gentile nation.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hi Jasonj, I live in Oceana County in Michigan. It's an agricultural area. Right now, the peach trees are beginning to flower, however the apple trees look dead-but they aren't. It's just not thier season right now.

The asparagus is sprouting, the corn looks dead but it's not, It needs a more sun and next month it will be sprouting.

People are the same, each in thier own season.

Amen..good one.

An orange tree is still an orange tree even though it doesn't produce the fruit we want to see in the timeframe we think it should. What happens if this orange tree dies before it has had a chance to be fed properly to grow up to be able to produce the fruit of a ripe orange?

To some works-based people - you would have to display 50 oranges in order to prove you are a real orange tree ( saved ) - to others you need 100 oranges in order to be a proved orange tree. ( saved ) So, this fruit inspection thing is not viable ..that's for God to look at people to determine if they are in Christ or not.

A person could have love and kindness as a fruit in their life but be addicted to some pills or alcohol which they are continuing to struggle with in their life. The people that don't have a struggle with alcohol will condemn the ones that do and declare they don't have the fruit and thus are not saved. This is Pharisee-ism at it's finest.

Does the orange tree stop being an orange tree even though it dies without having fruit that we think "proves" it was an orange tree to begin with?

What if Christians were like that? What if we fed them messages about the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness in Christ so that they could grow? Then they would produce an abundance of fruit.

I say let's preach and teach the grace of Christ in their lives so that they have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him!