Do you believe in Cessationism or Continuationism? (poll)

[MikeHenderson]

The problem is today too many people are caught up in PRIDE over which Gift they have.

Example: I used to belong to a Church back in the 1970's that believed and taught that you had to speak in Tongues in order to receive Salvation.

Their PRIDE was mixed in with having the Gift of Tongues.

Today we are still seeing people caught up in the Gifts as to what or not what they have or even if the Gifts are still relevant today.

Why are we so caught up in Gifts when its the least of anything?

Gifts mean NOTHING if you are doing it for your PRIDE!

If you have a Gift then that is fine. If you feel you do not have a Gift then that is fine also. Its not about Gifts its all about walking with Jesus.

As for me I do have a Gift. But not a Gift that people desire. I have the Gift of discernment. For those who do not know what this Gift is, here is a little bit about this Gift.

The spiritual gift of discernment is also known as the gift of "discernment of spirits" or "distinguishing between spirits." The Greek word for the gift of discernment is Diakrisis. The word describes being able to distinguish, discern, judge or appraise a person, statement, situation, or environment. In the New Testament it describes the ability to distinguish between spirits as in 1 Corinthians 12:10, and to discern good and evil as in Hebrews 5:14.

The Holy Spirit gives the gift of discernment to enable certain Christians to clearly recognize and distinguish between the influence of God, Satan, the world, and the flesh in a given situation.

Too many people today want the Gift of Tongues. As for me i will keep what i have and pass up on the Gift of Tongues.

 

[Depleted]

You never responded to me (on that thread), so I didn't know if you saw that post. I hope it was and is helpful.

Yes, I know that people have different definitions for cessationism in terms of how strong or militant they are. Meaning, some believe all spiritual gifts have ceased, but most cessationists believe the "sign gifts" have ceased.

VVhat I meant by power, was God working in and through us to do supernatural acts.

Sorry. I keep forgetting people can't see my head bob online. I do read all. Sometimes my only answer is head movement. (I'm not the type to say stuff out loud in public that would draw attention to me, but I did get the part where God still loves me.)

As for your definition of power -- I don't see the difference. They pray for God's help and get it -- in small ways and big ways. The really big way is God changing our heart. Even if they never see God miraculously curing cancer, everyone who is a real believer experiences God changing our heart to his good. Isn't that, ultimately, "praying in the Spirit," even if you don't believe "praying in the Spirit is for today"?

I'm not very mechanically inclined. I just poked some holes through the bottom of plastic containers with a drill and a doohickey. I even have a memory of hubby telling me not to use the drill backward, but it poked holes whether it was going forward or backward. Do I not have holes in the bottom of the container just because I can't come up with the right word for the doohickey or may have had the drill going backward?

To me, that is the difference between beliefs. You may not know the right word, or even believe it happens, but when it works for you, do you need to know? It's still, "whoa dude, did you see that too" when it happens.

 

[Depleted]

I believe the gifts are still active

BUT:

- I do not, like some, believe that your must have certain gifts to be a Christian. There are many gifts that seem to be ignored

- I think that some people want certain gifts so bad that they think they have them, while they really don't (ie tongues, prophecy, interpretation, dreams)

I've been guilty for three out of four of those.

 

[BenFTW]

My account is still active .... good. Might I ask what supernatural acts God is doing thru you Ben ?

I don't want the emphasis to be on me but Him. Its Him working through us. The glory goes to God. The Lord has healed people through me before. For example, a family member of mine had back issues and pain. Every time they bent over (part of their job) they would get a shooting pain in their back. VVell, they told me about this and for some back drop, I had been watching videos of people street healing and using the name of Jesus. So, in a way, my faith was active and there, I believed. So stepping out I said, "Pain go, in Jesus name." He said, "Praise Jesus!" It worked, immediately. The Lord took His pain away.

Theres more to this story, as afterwards (a good couple minutes) he bent over. His habit of reacting to the pain caused him to jerk in expectation but then he realized it wasn't there. haha "Old habits die hard." At this moment the Holy Spirit spoke to him saying, something of the sort, "VVhat are you doing? You've been healed." He told me the Lord went on to say to not be like those that are set free (delivered) and go right back into their bondage. The family member came up with an example of someone being healed out of a wheelchair and then going right back in it instead of pushing that thing away (or crutches).

There is a deep lesson in that.

Another testimony, when I first came to realize I had the gift of tongues the Lord directed my sister to tell me to pray for her hurting hand in tongues. So she handed me her hand, and I prayed in tongues (while two interpreters were present, her husband and herself) and she started tearing up as the Lord healed her pain. She was amazed. Glory to God.

If you are willing, you can do these same things in the name of Jesus (authority) and by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

 

[AllenW]

I have given thought to the gift of miracles.
It is listed in 1 Corinthians as the gift of miracles and the gift of miraculous powers.
Just what is it since it is listed separate from the gift of healing.
I came up with 2 things off the top of my head.
1. Raising someone from the dead.
2. Casting demons out of people.

I'm sure there are many more.
Yes, I believe in this gift.
No, I have never seen it or known anyone who claims to have done it.

How about you?
Where do you stand on this gift.
Is it alive and well in the Christian community?
Or maybe our faith is too weak to receive it?

I would love to hear what other people have to say.

 

[AllenW]

I once watched Leslie Hale on TV who claims to have cast out demons.
I went many times to his church in Tarpon Springs, Florida and saw miracles happen in his church.
Yet I never had the occasion to talk to him about it.

 

[abcdef]

Brother BenFTW,

I have thought about this for awhile. I think that there are some things to consider in the investigation of the gifts.

I thought that you got some great replies to your thread, I'm looking forward to more.

1. If you had a "gift" at any time in history, you would have been considered, well, possessed or something like that.
Would you want people to know that you could "heal" or perform "miracles"? Look how the people swarmed over Jesus. What would you do then?

2. Anyone who went against the "powers of the day", was subject to death or worse. Anything that would take away their power was met with brute force and death. Would you want a "following" and have to speak against a corrupt king?
(Joan of Ark?)

3. We also must consider the "author" in some of the documents we use as historical records. (How much can you trust even historical writings from Rome or anyone, unconfirmed miracles, etc?)

4. Maybe they didn't "die", but were only, not given by God as much, because if sin, (Rome,etc).

Just some thoughts

Brother John

 

[Depleted]

Brother BenFTW,

I have thought about this for awhile. I think that there are some things to consider in the investigation of the gifts.

I thought that you got some great replies to your thread, I'm looking forward to more.

1. If you had a "gift" at any time in history, you would have been considered, well, possessed or something like that.
Would you want people to know that you could "heal" or perform "miracles"? Look how the people swarmed over Jesus. What would you do then?

2. Anyone who went against the "powers of the day", was subject to death or worse. Anything that would take away their power was met with brute force and death. Would you want a "following" and have to speak against a corrupt king?
(Joan of Ark?)

3. We also must consider the "author" in some of the documents we use as historical records. (How much can you trust even historical writings from Rome or anyone, unconfirmed miracles, etc?)

4. Maybe they didn't "die", but were only, not given by God as much, because if sin, (Rome,etc).

Just some thoughts

Brother John

My gifts are the less-column-space variety. (Not very showy.) Mine are administrative, mercy, and discernment. I don't think there was ever a time in history when giving a helping hand or warning someone about the potential harmful effects of a considered action would have ever put me in mortal danger.

 

[RickyZ]

I'm actually surprised by the poll results. I didn't realize CC members were so open to the gifts of the Spirit (about 78%, out of who participated). Some users surprised me as well, with their decision. Thats one thing that boggled my mind in the past, that a revelation of grace doesn't necessarily mean a revelation of power.

There are people with the grace revelation who are closed off to the gifts, and then there are people operating in the gifts who are closed off to God's grace (in terms of doctrine). I find that peculiar and I was somewhat dumbfounded in the past. How could someone with a revelation of God's love, through Jesus by grace, not also grasp the love behind the gifts of the Holy Spirit? Him providing gifts in order to edify and exhort others. I really didn't think such beliefs could be separated, to be honest when I first witnessed it. "A grace believer as a cessationist!? Say what?" haha

The gifts of the Holy Spirit require our participation. Grace tends to imply we have no part to play. It doesn't surprise me to hear that grace proponents are cessationists.

 

[RickyZ]

God can certainly do as He chooses, but even Paul wasn't healed of the thorn in his side - even after his petitions to God.

It isn't always God's desire that people are healed, given back sight, or hearing, etc. If it were, there wouldn't be a blind, deaf, or sick person in the world, thanks to the intervention of Christians.

As believers, we are called upon to sometimes suffer.

We simply pray that whatever will be, will be, according to His will.

True, and a lot of people tend to think that a miracle healing infers immortality. Everyone who has been healed has gone on to die of something anyway.

And I often wonder if Paul was never healed because no one ever had the ba--s, 'scuse me, I mean faith to walk up and lay a hand on him.

 

[BenFTW]

The gifts of the Holy Spirit require our participation. Grace tends to imply we have no part to play. It doesn't surprise me to hear that grace proponents are cessationists.

Keep in mind most of the grace proponents on this site voted continuationism. I see only 2 who chose cessationism. In comparison, 9 to 10 chose continuationism. lol

 

[RickyZ]

The problem is today too many people are caught up in PRIDE over which Gift they have.


Too many people today want the Gift of Tongues. As for me i will keep what i have and pass up on the Gift of Tongues.

You are right that human pride and the flesh muddy the waters. that's why Paul, in exhorting the gifts, goes on to say he'd rather we didn't than do them wrongly.

And it's not an either or situation. Don't confuse callings with gifts. One may have a calling as a healer but God can use anyone to bring a healing. And if God needs you to bring a healing are you really going to say no thanks, discernment is my thing? Being strong in a particular gift is a blessing, but don't allow that to close the door on all the rest of them.

 

[JosephsDreams]

Why do you think most grace proponents vote continuationism?

 

[RickyZ]

Keep in mind most of the grace proponents on this site voted continuationism. I see only 2 who chose cessationism. In comparison, 9 to 10 chose continuationism. lol

I hadn't tied particular people to particular answers, but that's a good sign

 

[BenFTW]

Why do you think most grace proponents vote continuationism?

I was looking at the results of the poll. It is a public poll and informs you that it is public (meaning your vote is seen by other members). Having been here awhile I know certain people to be proponents of God's grace and looking at the list can tell you how many voted for continuationism or cessationism.

 

[JosephsDreams]

I was looking at the results of the poll. It is a public poll and informs you that it is public (meaning your vote is seen by other members). Having been here awhile I know certain people to be proponents of God's grace and looking at the list can tell you how many voted for continuationism or cessationism.

Maybe I should have stated that differently. I mean what do you think the correlation is?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I'm actually surprised by the poll results. I didn't realize CC members were so open to the gifts of the Spirit (about 78%, out of who participated). Some users surprised me as well, with their decision. Thats one thing that boggled my mind in the past, that a revelation of grace doesn't necessarily mean a revelation of power.

There are people with the grace revelation who are closed off to the gifts, and then there are people operating in the gifts who are closed off to God's grace (in terms of doctrine). I find that peculiar and I was somewhat dumbfounded in the past. How could someone with a revelation of God's love, through Jesus by grace, not also grasp the love behind the gifts of the Holy Spirit? Him providing gifts in order to edify and exhort others. I really didn't think such beliefs could be separated, to be honest when I first witnessed it. "A grace believer as a cessationist!? Say what?" haha

My question would be - How could someone who is a cessationist receive ANY revelation? Considering "knowledge" (word of knowledge, one of the manifestations of the Spirit) has supposedly ended along with tongues and prophecy?

 

[keepitsimple]

I don't want the emphasis to be on me but Him. Its Him working through us. The glory goes to God. The Lord has healed people through me before. For example, a family member of mine had back issues and pain. Every time they bent over (part of their job) they would get a shooting pain in their back. VVell, they told me about this and for some back drop, I had been watching videos of people street healing and using the name of Jesus. So, in a way, my faith was active and there, I believed. So stepping out I said, "Pain go, in Jesus name." He said, "Praise Jesus!" It worked, immediately. The Lord took His pain away.

Theres more to this story, as afterwards (a good couple minutes) he bent over. His habit of reacting to the pain caused him to jerk in expectation but then he realized it wasn't there. haha "Old habits die hard." At this moment the Holy Spirit spoke to him saying, something of the sort, "VVhat are you doing? You've been healed." He told me the Lord went on to say to not be like those that are set free (delivered) and go right back into their bondage. The family member came up with an example of someone being healed out of a wheelchair and then going right back in it instead of pushing that thing away (or crutches).

There is a deep lesson in that.

Another testimony, when I first came to realize I had the gift of tongues the Lord directed my sister to tell me to pray for her hurting hand in tongues. So she handed me her hand, and I prayed in tongues (while two interpreters were present, her husband and herself) and she started tearing up as the Lord healed her pain. She was amazed. Glory to God.

If you are willing, you can do these same things in the name of Jesus (authority) and by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

I can't help but wonder why so many are sick and suffering today, given that if what you say is true, that being that we can all do these things if we are willing, then why wouldn't we ? Jesus healed as many as had come to Him. He gave the apostles the same authority as His own to do likewise with the House of Israel when He had sent them out to preach the gospel. This God-given authority left no room for doubt as to who Jesus was and is to all the Jews to whom the gospel was preached. The words of Jesus were proved by His miraculous power and authority ... "that you may know that the Son of God has authority to forgive sins etc. ... I say to thee, take up thy mat and walk". I also wonder why we have zero scriptural reference to any healings being performed by God's chosen vessels while speaking in tongues ? I'm simply being honest and straight-forward with you Ben. I don't see the relevance nor the biblical instruction for any of us to act on God's behalf in this manner. Jesus didn't. Neither do I see where the apostles did either .. and if they had, don't you think that we would have been told and instructed in this manner ? In any event, I am not seeking to debate. Just pointing out what I see and understand in God's written Word. More and more lately, I am starting to think that there is too great a divide amongst believers on this issue for there to be any true harmony between these two camps. And for this reason, I think it best to simply leave things at that. Thank you for replying.

 

[notuptome]

My question would be - How could someone who is a cessationist receive ANY revelation? Considering "knowledge" (word of knowledge, one of the manifestations of the Spirit) has supposedly ended along with tongues and prophecy?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you do not know what that verse actually means.

The disciples and apostles were for the most part very simple men. Paul was the exception having an extensive education provided by the Jews and Romans.

The knowledge they possessed was far in excess of their educational capacity. They refuted the religious doctors of the day having never gone their schools.

Knowledge today is quite different in that most people are educated and can study Gods word. The Holy Spirit still gives insight into the word of God but it comes through study not gifting as some would have us to believe.

There is no new revelation. Gods word the that which is perfect is complete. Perfect means complete in the context of the verse.

There are many others here who maliciously perpetuate the misinterpretation of the verse to continue in their private interpretation of this scripture so as not to interfere with the predetermined doctrine they wish to follow.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Why do you think most grace proponents vote continuationism?

Everyone must be a proponent of grace or they are not Christian.

Honest students of the bible know only three sign gifts ceased. Sings are not for the Gentile church but for unsaved Jews.

For the cause of Christ
Roger