Can prayer be an easy cop out when action is needed?

Miri · May 15, 2016

I've been thinking about this a lot recently.

How many times do we hear someone say I will pray for you, when
what you actually need is someone to help in a practical way.

Or how many times do we say I will pray for you but deep down you know you should
do more.

An exausted mother might just need a baby sitter for the day so she can get
some rest, but well meaning friends say I will pray for you.

A person in hospital is feeling ill and lonely and worried and needs people to visit, but
the friends says I will pray for you.

Someone is having genuine financial difficulties and could do with some money or
groceries, but people say pray about it.

A self employed plasterer has problems because a car brakes down and it needs repairing and
the money to do so. Without the car he cannot do his job. But friends say I will pray the Lord will
provide.

The above all real life examples where I have helped out.

Some examples of my own which have occurred at different times:-

Sometimes I just need someone to cut the grass and trim the hedge so I can
concentrate on other pressing needs, but friends say I will pray for you. On that
occasion I was visiting my aunt in hospital nearly every day while also working so the
hedge and grass got very overgrown as no time to cut it. (You can get into trouble
with the Council where I live if you let your garden get overgrown).

No bus service on Christmas Day meant I was looking at walking to hospital to
visit my aunt. Until at the last minute a relative said it can take you there (still had to
walk 2.5 mile home). While well meaning friends said they would pray.

I was also thinking about where Jesues said to the disciples pray for labourers, but then
in the next verse he is sending them out! They were literally the answer to their own prayer.

Luke 10:2-5 NKJV
[2] Then He said to them, "The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few; therefore
pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest. [3] Go your way;
behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves. [4] Carry neither money bag, knapsack,
nor sandals; and greet no one along the road. [5] But whatever house you enter, first
say, 'Peace to this house.'

When you pray for someone does it ever become apparent that you are the answer?

Or are we all so busy that we no longer have time to actually do any thing and is sometimes
prayer a bit if a way of saying, sorry I can't / won't / don't have time to help but I will pray.
Do we use prayer as an excuse not to take action.

Hands up I have been guilty of this myself at times.

tourist · May 15, 2016

Miri said:

Often, just saying that you are going to pray is taking the easy way out. The best prayer is an answered prayer. I have missed many opportunities to serve God because I did not want to take the time to get involved. Or maybe I felt tired and worn out and did not want to help someone deal with a pressing problem or situation. You wrote an excellent post and the point you raised is definitely worth considering and applying to one's life.

Depleted · May 15, 2016

"I will pray for you" is the only thing I can offer at times. I'd send the world-class opthamologist to your door if I could afford it. I will buy you a new home and a wedding, if I could afford it. (Two prayer request I wish I could do more for.) I will send you, Miri, a ten-year contracted landscaper, (or a guy who would gladly cement your whole yard lol), a thorough maid who gets how much you hate needing your dust bin every day, the kindest, gentlest, most knowledgeable in-home nurse that you'd love like a sister, and a brand new car with free petro for ten years, if I could afford it. (My third prayer request I wish I could do more for.

)

What often surprises me is when the prayer works. I mean prayer always works, but seeing God say YES in surprising ways is always a shocker to me, and a reminder that he is listening and does want to hear from us.

But, yes, also in that "I will pray for you" is such a universal cop-out in the Christian community today that I was genuinely telling people on FB of the problems/struggles of men in a veteran's nursing home locally, looking for any real-world ways I can raise money to help, or to simply remind others they have vets in nursing homes without any family ever coming to visit them. And, sure enough, a cousin came back with "I will pray for you."

Ummm? Hello? Why did I need prayers? It was never about me. All that did was tell me, not only wasn't he going to pray, he wasn't even paying attention.

My biggest pet peeve of the supposedly-Christian community.

Miri · May 15, 2016

Depleted said:

Oh bless you, I know you would, the same here. I've often thought "if only I lived near Lynn..."

And yes prayer does work and we do worship a wonderful God who provides.

But for those closer to the immediate situation, I feel sometimes the "pray for you" standard response
is just that - the standard response. Like when people say "hello how are you" but it's just a form of
greeting they don't actually want to know how you are.

Or even when people say "oh bless you" and they don't mean that either. Lol

I mean it by the way. Lord bless Lynn from the top of her head to the tips of her toes.
Bless her with strength, courage, wisdom, give her your peace and bring supernatural
provision into her life, both practical help and material provision.

Amen
x

kaylagrl · May 15, 2016

Miri said:

Do something rather than just pray? Oh you must be careful sister Miri! Someone will accuse you of works based religion, according to another thread.

We attended a church where a blind lady began to attend. I dont know who invited her but she began to attend. My parents have always been people to invite new people to their home. So we got to know this lady quite well. Christmas rolled around and she mentioned she would be having company. She had other friends in the church but no one seemed to be helping her. My sister and I were big on decorating for Christmas and asked her if she would like us to do a tree and decorate for her. We were young people at the time and there was a professional decorator in the church. But over we went and decorated the tree and her whole house. She had her company and a week or so later we went to visit and her cat had torn down all the decorations!! We told her and she laughed. It was a small thing but it meant something to her.

Depleted · May 15, 2016

Miri said:

And either a gardener, a cement contractor, (although her being English and all, I don't think I can convince her of that one), or a maid for Miri would be nice, Lord.

(Hey, I am always surprised when God answers prayers. I keep hoping for the surprise. I really am praying you to meet just the right person who would come and do your yard or your housekeeping for you. So, if it happens, first thing you have to do -- after crying, letting your aunt know, crying again, and that really big sigh of relief, is let me know.)

oldethennew · May 15, 2016

Miri,
you have great insight into this ole world...

hub and I have witnessed over not a few years how the many, many 'churches' ASK, but
fail to GIVE too the poor and needy...

when we first started reading the Holy Bible so many years ago, we found that Christ's messages
to the Churchs and to those who had the ways and means to help their fellow man and their own families,
basically went 'un-heeded'....

we see a corrupt mind-set in churches and individuals, as SELF is the all pervading world for those who
are in the world...

crosstweed · May 15, 2016

Yes, prayer can definitely be a cop out for genuine action.

Interestingly enough, action can also be a cop out for genuine prayer.

Miri · May 15, 2016

crosstweed said:

Absolutley, I've wasted many hours trying to do it "my way" instead of praying and
trying it God's way.

Ive also seen lots of situations where the assistance was available practically
right besides you, then it walked away.

Miri · May 15, 2016

oldethennew said:

I've often wondered if the problem is that the cares of this world and the business of
life just takes up so much time and energy, that people have nothing is left to give any
more.

If we are too busy to care, we are too busy.

I see it all around and even in my own life, people have stopped being human beings and
instead have become human doings. Then there is the breakdown of family life.

Quite when families stopped looking after each other I don't know, but there are far too many
elderly people on their own. Far too many single parents, far too many kids left to look after
themselves because both parents have to work.

Net result no one has time for anyone anymore.

I would like to think my church is different and there are lots of things going on, various
small groups, various out reaches, various projects and organised assistance. Prayer
groups, children's work galore, food banks, teen challenge, etc.

But even that is very organised and within certain structural perimeters. In that sense
they do as much as they possibly can. But the size of the church means individuals can and
do get overlooked and the organised activities do not always lend themselves to the flexibility
to take on the needs of an individual. To that degree you are reliant on friends who ....
are all busy with their own lives and so it returns full circle.

I dont know about the insight thingy, lol

Depleted · May 15, 2016

Miri said:

Sometimes, I think God gives up on trying to get patience into me and does a run around. I have had days when I'm all set to help someone, go to help, and find the person isn't there. I figure that's God telling me, "Nahhh, I had a better way. You should have asked first."

Depleted · May 15, 2016

Miri said:

Something really did change in the last few decades, and it was set up to do exactly what it is doing, at least in the US. My dad remembers the first time the federal government set up something called "an income tax" straight out of his paycheck. My entire life, Dad has literally been OCD. Not the "I count my steps" OCD, or the "I have to pick up empty glasses out of my livingroom the minute they're empty" OCD. He's has lived with "only I am right and only the way I do things is right, so get out of my way so I can do it, because I can't trust anyone else to do it perfectly like I can" OCD. That included finances. (That included a bookshelf lined with "the books" that told him every single penny he ever got and every single penny he ever spent frugal. And all those foods I listed that we ate when I was young? Guess why we had fishhead stew that night. It was cheaper than buying a pound of meat for five people, so seriously cheap.) All that, and he honestly didn't mind that the US government took one dollar of his $40 paycheck. It seemed fair to him. It seems fair to me!

But, the US government knew exactly what it was doing and planned accordingly. One hour of pay for someone working 40 hours a week is no big deal. That was in the 1950's. By the 1960's, Dad had a wife and three kids, was making twice what he was making a decade before and now giving two hours a week to the government because he was "rich." Our income taxes was set up to be "progressive." The more you made, the more they took, and not just that if you make $2 an hour, you pay merely $2 a week. By that time you're paying $4 a week. Fast forward to the end of Dad's working life and he was giving the feds 40%. (Or, he was giving a bit less than that because of loopholes, but still he was paying 2 days of pay per week, instead of one hour's pay per week, and by then he had five kids, even though some of us were out of the house. The sixth and fifth kid both were in expensive colleges by the time Dad was forced into retirement.

If he didn't have a big salary, his wife would have had to work to keep up with the expenses. And slowly but surely most wives have had no choice but to do that.

When I was growing up, most women stayed home. On any given block in my entire small town there was The Block Mom and one Backup Block Mom. Block Mom's were the women with just enough kids running in and out of the house that one or two extra kids was no big deal. So, if one Mom had to run to the store/take a kid to the doctors/play Soccer Mom (American style -- baseball, football, or basketball, because very few actually played soccer back then lol), Block Mom was watching the other kids without even having to be called and asked. And usually Backup was when Block Mom had to run out too. (My mom was the backup, but she was also Den Mother for cubs scouts, Girl Scout leader, Brownie leader, and so much more, so she was given leeway because she had all the kids over for one activity or another 2-3 afternoons a week.)

That was the culture I grew up in. Now all those mom's are out trying to make enough money to get their kids to graduating from some college/university, because the secondary school (high school, but you call that something else and I forget what lol) degree just doesn't pay enough to get two incomes to raise one family anymore.

So, it's not all an appearance of looking busier. Everyone really is busier. When our government orchestrated the income tax, they knew it. They counted on it. The only thing they missed was life-expectancy went well above the traditional 58 years old that they orchestrated. (Our retirement Social Security income originally started at 65, because so few lived to that age, that they could afford to do that. Now that everyone is living so much longer, just getting it to raise to 66 was such a big deal, no one would get elected if they did the right thing and made if 85!)

We're living on less than we were 30 years ago, but still trying to maintain the appearance on "the American Dream" so we really are lighting our candles at both ends and have no idea whats draining the wax so quickly.

The only reason you and I got off that treadmill was because God so ordained it. (aka circumstances changed everything.)

Miri · May 15, 2016

Depleted said:

Something really did change in the last few decades, and it was set up to do exactly what it is doing, at least in the US. My dad remembers the first time the federal government set up something called "an income tax" straight out of his paycheck. My entire life, Dad has literally been OCD. Not the "I count my steps" OCD, or the "I have to pick up empty glasses out of my livingroom the minute they're empty" OCD. He's has lived with "only I am right and only the way I do things is right, so get out of my way so I can do it, because I can't trust anyone else to do it perfectly like I can" OCD. That included finances. (That included a bookshelf lined with "the books" that told him every single penny he ever got and every single penny he ever spent frugal. And all those foods I listed that we ate when I was young? Guess why we had fishhead stew that night. It was cheaper than buying a pound of meat for five people, so seriously cheap.) All that, and he honestly didn't mind that the US government took one dollar of his $40 paycheck. It seemed fair to him. It seems fair to me!

But, the US government knew exactly what it was doing and planned accordingly. One hour of pay for someone working 40 hours a week is no big deal. That was in the 1950's. By the 1960's, Dad had a wife and three kids, was making twice what he was making a decade before and now giving two hours a week to the government because he was "rich." Our income taxes was set up to be "progressive." The more you made, the more they took, and not just that if you make $2 an hour, you pay merely $2 a week. By that time you're paying $4 a week. Fast forward to the end of Dad's working life and he was giving the feds 40%. (Or, he was giving a bit less than that because of loopholes, but still he was paying 2 days of pay per week, instead of one hour's pay per week, and by then he had five kids, even though some of us were out of the house. The sixth and fifth kid both were in expensive colleges by the time Dad was forced into retirement.

If he didn't have a big salary, his wife would have had to work to keep up with the expenses. And slowly but surely most wives have had no choice but to do that.

When I was growing up, most women stayed home. On any given block in my entire small town there was The Block Mom and one Backup Block Mom. Block Mom's were the women with just enough kids running in and out of the house that one or two extra kids was no big deal. So, if one Mom had to run to the store/take a kid to the doctors/play Soccer Mom (American style -- baseball, football, or basketball, because very few actually played soccer back then lol), Block Mom was watching the other kids without even having to be called and asked. And usually Backup was when Block Mom had to run out too. (My mom was the backup, but she was also Den Mother for cubs scouts, Girl Scout leader, Brownie leader, and so much more, so she was given leeway because she had all the kids over for one activity or another 2-3 afternoons a week.)

That was the culture I grew up in. Now all those mom's are out trying to make enough money to get their kids to graduating from some college/university, because the secondary school (high school, but you call that something else and I forget what lol) degree just doesn't pay enough to get two incomes to raise one family anymore.

So, it's not all an appearance of looking busier. Everyone really is busier. When our government orchestrated the income tax, they knew it. They counted on it. The only thing they missed was life-expectancy went well above the traditional 58 years old that they orchestrated. (Our retirement Social Security income originally started at 65, because so few lived to that age, that they could afford to do that. Now that everyone is living so much longer, just getting it to raise to 66 was such a big deal, no one would get elected if they did the right thing and made if 85!)

We're living on less than we were 30 years ago, but still trying to maintain the appearance on "the American Dream" so we really are lighting our candles at both ends and have no idea whats draining the wax so quickly.

The only reason you and I got off that treadmill was because God so ordained it. (aka circumstances changed everything.)

Its the same across the pond, everyone has to work to keep afloat.

Our retirement age has recently gone up to 68 and the pension scheme has changed
and not for the better. Now we have to work longer and will get less back.

It was the case that if you put in 30 years service you could get a reasonable pension and
retire at 60. That allowed you the privilege of leaving school, attending college, then
university getting a degree and then starting work in your 20s.

Now you have to put in at least 40 years and if you go to university there is now the
fees to pay back when you start working. So you end up in debt before your working
life starts. The resulting pension ends up being less at the end.

JosephsDreams · May 15, 2016

I wrote a post a few weeks ago about a young homeless woman in NYC who eventually turned her life to God, and was at our church preaching one day. She said Christians would give her tracts, say they were going to ray for her, sometimes even did right then and there. Sometimes they gave her some money.
She said it was obvious just by anyone looking at here she was in bad shape, and that finally she began to tell the them don't bother praying for me, and would throw the tracts back at them, in their faces sometimes.
She would say why in the world would I want to hear about God when I am starving? Give me a meal first, and then I can concentrate a little more about hearing about God.
Finally one of them took her to his v=church, she stayed there for a while, helped clean, attended services, in exchange for meals and a roof, and got saved.

BeyondET · May 15, 2016

When action is needed easy cop out can prayer be...

Depleted · May 15, 2016

Miri said:

Its the same across the pond, everyone has to work to keep afloat.

Our retirement age has recently gone up to 68 and the pension scheme has changed
and not for the better. Now we have to work longer and will get less back.

It was the case that if you put in 30 years service you could get a reasonable pension and
retire at 60. That allowed you the privilege of leaving school, attending college, then
university getting a degree and then starting work in your 20s.

Now you have to put in at least 40 years and if you go to university there is now the
fees to pay back when you start working. So you end up in debt before your working
life starts. The resulting pension ends up being less at the end.

Too many college graduates leave school with a debt bigger than a 30-year mortgage. (Sometimes debt twice as much as our fair-value price of our home. Yikes!)

Siberian_Khatru · May 16, 2016

Miri said:

Hey Miri!

Great point. I have some concern over this as well. After all, "actions speak louder than words, but not nearly as often." It's also concerning when a prayer is fulfilled and makes a person complacent, or even prideful, as though they contributed something.

I'm sure extending the offer for prayer comes from a good place, and I appreciate that. Still, I'm glad you brought this up.

wwjd_kilden · May 16, 2016

This reminds me of the campaign against Facebook posts along the lines of "share this if you care about... like = prayer " etc.

p_rehbein · May 16, 2016

I thought prayer was a "call to action?" But, now, that may just be me, sooooooo

I do understand your point though........calls to mind the story of the good Samaritan.

Sirk · May 16, 2016

Meeting a need for someone can be a powerful thing.

Can prayer be an easy cop out when action is needed?

Miri

Guest

tourist

Senior Member

Depleted

Guest

Miri

Guest

kaylagrl

Guest

Depleted

Guest

oldethennew

Banned

crosstweed

Guest

Miri

Guest

Miri

Guest

Depleted

Guest

Depleted

Guest

Miri

Guest

JosephsDreams

Senior Member

BeyondET

Guest

Depleted

Guest

Siberian_Khatru

Guest

wwjd_kilden

Guest

p_rehbein

Senior Member

Sirk

Banned