Delicate situation with a friend

[Depleted]

a very hard lesson we have learned is that we cannot step into another family's business, unless
we are invited to give our opinion or experience in a particular situation,.,.

many years ago, I did subject myself to surgery for a broken-neck, but I was also abused during this time,
in the hospital and out at the doctor's office...at this time, I was not a member of the Body of Christ...

fast-forward, in my NOW situation, I have been told that I must have surgery NOW in order to have
any kind of quality of life...but upon researching this particular operation, the statics were so negative
that we, my husband and myself, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, have decided to NOT have the
surgery...we certainly would NOT entertain anyone else's advice in this personal, bodily,
delimma...
when you find out that several so called experts are not giving you the 'whole picture', 'down-side' or
the 'worst scenario', and that you have figured out that there is going to be a HUGE amount of $$$
going into their pockets, then, it is your personal-choice, just who to Trust...

we chose to Trust in The Lord....is it a roller-coaster-ride?? yes, but the benefits of TRUSTING in The Lord,
have so out-weighted the ups-and-downs of the roller coaster ride...!!!

PRO. 3:5-6. -
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths.

Different issue, but try going to a different kind of doctor. John's kidney doctor told him he needed surgery to remove cancer on his kidney. 8 inch gash to cut him open and a month in the hospital. (Little did we know a month was no big deal.)

The surgeon wasn't. He was a medical student, and dumb enough to tell what he shouldn't have told -- that the cancer could be frozen out with a needle, instead of surgery. And from that one word -- cryoablasion -- said by mistake, we researched the alternatives, and that's how the cancer was killed! Twice surgery was the answer in our lives, only later to find out there were other choices. I live with the mistake made during surgery for the rest of my life.

There are usually other choices, but MD's are simply taught "surgery is the answer" as a mantra. Find someone who doesn't automatically go for "surgery is the answer.


Miri, not for you to dwell on with your friend. Surgery is the answer for that kind of scoliosis.

 

[peacenik]

how old does the girl have to be before she can proceed without her parents consent?

IMO, those parents are not hearing from God...and they are playing with the girl's condition

there is a big difference between presumption and faith...

the fact they keep the letters from the hospital from her is bothersome IMO...just not right

In the USA and UK she may proceed without their consent when she reaches legal majority. She has done so by reaching age 18. It should well be time for her to grow up and take independent action since God helps those who help themselves.

 

[Depleted]

In the USA and UK she may proceed without their consent when she reaches legal majority. She has done so by reaching age 18. It should well be time for her to grow up and take independent action since God helps those who help themselves.

There's legal, and then there is reality. Sure, legally she can have the surgery.
A. Who's taking her there?
B. Who's convincing her that her parents have played a psychological game on her for at least four years?
C. Who's comforting her when she's in the hospital?
D. Where does she go afterward to heal?
E. And then what? She's 18 with no job, no payable skills, and no way to live her own life from the moment she's released from that hospital.

Sadly, that's the reality for this, so do legal implications really matter?

Her parents set her up to be this helpless. She has no idea what's really happening because they are her parents and she's assuming everything about her parents that anyone assumes when they grow up in a family that takes such very good care of them. This life she lives in is very much her parents doing, but they're making darn sure absolutely no one catches on and no one reaches her to tell her even if anyone so much as suspects. She's not some spoiled kid. She's a victim.

And for the record, God does NOT help those who help themselves. That is the antithesis of the biblical message. God helps those that he purposely opened their eyes to that they finally realize how helpless they are without him!

I hate using Ben Franklin's saying, as if he even believed in the God of the Bible, as any form of the real gospel.

 

[HisHolly]

So i have this married friend lets call her A

She has a daughter who started to develope scholiosis when she was about 14.
This is a condition where the spines twists and causes hunchback as the spine,
shoulders and pelvis are pushed out of alignment.

So something like this.

View attachment 149445


She has been offered surgery to correct it multiple times and the above images show
that it can be corrected. Obviously there are risks and it is drastic surgery which involves
fixing, for want of a better word, scaffolding and rods to the spine to correct it.

The thing is my friend A and the husband who are both Christians, wanted to wait and
see and pray about the situation and look into the surgery and the condition first. They are
both really good down to earth people I would add.

This was a reasonable thing to do when the initial diagnoses was made. But then they came
to the conclusion that God was going to heal their daughter and told the daughter this and
everyone else they came across that God was going to heal her and surgery was not necessary.


Fast forward a few years, the daughter is now 18, the curvature of the spine is so bad she can't sit
straight up and has to lean to one side. She can't stand or walk for long periods of time. She has
breathing problems. She is very self conscious of her posture and wears very baggy loose clothing.
She is also very shy and hardly ever socialises with other people. With each passing year
as she is growing and her skeleton is maturing, it means that the surgery will be more drastic with
a longer recovery time than if she had it aged 14.

She is absolutely fantastic at art, very gifted you won't believe the stuff she is capable of drawing.
She did start at art college when she was 17, but had to drop out after a few months as she
could not sit for very long without pain. So now she just stays at home and hardly goes
anywhere. Sometimes she comes to church but always is very self conscious and she is just
miserable.

But her parents just tell everyone God is going to heal her.

Various people including me and others and the church pastors have said that while God can and
does heal, that God also uses medical staff and surgery in that healing process. But the parents
have just criticised everyone else for their unbelief.


The thing is the daughter on a few occasions has had a few visions in the past in
which an envelope with wings came flying by the daughter's bedroom window but something was
blocking it from getting in.

I also have another friend we will call her friend B (See I do have real friends ).
Recently she had a similar vision of an envelope with wings which could not enter the
house but then it got inside and landed on the daughter's bed. My friend B said she
felt it was to do with the offer of surgery and that it was the right time to accept it.
She sent this by text to the whole family parents and daughter etc and there ended up
being a massive argument and lots of upset. With my friend A accusing my friend B of
being insensitive and not having faith.


The arguments have been sorted out now, but as a result of sorting out the argument, it
has now come to light that the hospital has been sending letters out for follow
up appointments but my friend A and her husband have been keeping these letter from the
daughter. They still haven't told her, only me and friend B know about this.

Friend B who found out about this told friend A she can't do that it is illegal to withhold another
person's mail and now the daughter is 18 anyway so she is old enough to make her own decisions.
It all makes perfect sense now that these visions were about hospital letters and aappointments
not reaching the daughter!


However my friend A is still adamant that God will heal her daughter and that it is riduculous to
think otherwise. Although she now says she will pass on any further letters.

The daughter poor thing is just going along with what her parents have been saying for the past
4 years. I think they have told her so much about the surgery that she is scared to even think about
having it and even more scared she will disappoint her parents by having the surgery.

Me and friend B are praying that when the next hospital appointment comes along that the daughter
will go and have the surgery and that the parents will understand and see the problems they are
causing.

Friend A and hubby are adamant their daughter will be healed, that it is going to be a wonderful
testimony for the entire church and that it will bring revival and floods of people into the church.
I would add that we already have revival and a flood of people coming into the church.

Sorry long story.

So how would you handle this, am I wrong for thinking surgery is one way in which God heals
and that there is nothing wrong with praying for a good outcome via surgery.

Whenever we mention surgery to friend A it causes more upset she gets very annoyed.
The poor daughter is caught in the middle in constant pain, shy, self conscious but does not
want to go against her parents by going for surgery.

I just feel this is a situation where the whole word of faith doctrine has gotten way out of
hand. It has not come from my church it is things the parents have seen on TV.

Or am I at fault for not believing in outright healing?

The thing is in the UK we are blessed to have totally free medical care, is that not
a miracle and part of God's provision also and what about those visions of envelopes
not reaching the daughter which were absolutely spot on. Was this not from God.

A whole young person's life could be ruined if surgery continues to be refused
and the older she gets the harder the surgery will be and the more complications
will be caused, damage to lungs, ligaments, muscles etc.

The thing about faith is is that it comes by hearing, hearing the word of God.. The inspired word. Not the written, not the words from a pastor, friends, teachers, but the Holy Spirit.. They can read about healing but must ask for the written word to become the heard word in order for the faith that's needed to come. You can know God heals but doesn't mean He'll act by what you say He'll do. Must proclaim what He says specifically about your individual situation.. It would unfortunate to hear that their hearts continued in stubbornness.. Ask God to soften their hearts to listen to counsel. If they truly love her they'll stop thinking they are helping God look good. He knows how to look amazing but He needs obedience

 

[Miri]

Thanks for everyone's comments. I know they are not against medical
intervention as they have another daughter two years older than the
first, who had a chest/lung infection. In the end that daughter needed
surgery as a tear occurred on her lung and she has had surgery twice
for that.

But in regards to the younger daughter they really have got it into
their heads that God is going to heal her, maybe they are right. But
I just feel that 4 years of her life has been destroyed already when the
actual surgery could have been over and done with and the back healed
within the first year.

If the younger daughter did want surgery the would take care of her, they
would not disown her or anything like that. It just feel now that it is a
matter of pride, they have told all the church, family, friends that God is
going to heal her and they have accused others of unbelief. I think also that
they are a bit scared of the surgery it is drastic.


So if they concede surgery is the right thing now after all, they will
have to admit they got it wrong this time. I think also that there is a
spiritual element going on in that with every passing month, they are
getting more depressed themselves and questioning God, wondering why
God has not acted. This could be the thingy that ends up turning them away
from God, because God has not done it their way.

Sigh, What a mess.

They are good people honest, but this is what happens when someone
takes a verse here and a verse there out of context and makes it into a
whole philosophy and belief system out of it. Also the word of faith stuff they
have been watching has not helped as it has not provided the balanced view
point.

Funny thing is at one point they actually told me there must be some sort of
demonic oppression over my house due to so much happening with my
elderly aunt her health issues and that both me and my aunt need delivering.
But they can't see their own situation for what it is. (I would add that I have seen
so many answers to pray in my own situation that I know God is working).

Again they have been reading and watching unbalanced one sided things
regarding illness. It makes me more thankful for you all on here as
whatever a thread is about, you know you are going to get a whole bunch
of ideas and sides to consider and will never just get one side of the debate, even
if things do get a bit heated.


Maybe everyone who has been kind enough to post and comment could
pray about this situation. Prayer that the blinkers will come off.


Ps if God did miraculously intevene and heal the daughter, there would be no one
happier than me and I would gladly admit I got it wrong.

Thanks

 

[NewWine]

I have been thinking about this a lot. I also have scoliosis and I have had similar surgeries to the ones in the photos, and all I can say is they really didn't do much for me physically except steal years of my life "recuperating" from surgeries. I still have daily pain, I still have days where I can't walk steadily, I still have lung issues from the pressure....other than posture, what really improved for me? My faith has improved. God has used this entire experience to mold me into who I am today both physically and emotionally. I can't say having the surgery is right or wrong for another, but I can say that having the surgery isn't some magic cure like many think it is. There are YEARS of recovery to be "fully recovered", endless physical therapy sessions, pain and more pain, limitations that make one feel like less than a full person. And after all this....there MIGHT be improvement in posture and improvement in health......that's a lot to endure for a few "mights".
Anyways, just another perspective from experience.

 

[Miri]

I have been thinking about this a lot. I also have scoliosis and I have had similar surgeries to the ones in the photos, and all I can say is they really didn't do much for me physically except steal years of my life "recuperating" from surgeries. I still have daily pain, I still have days where I can't walk steadily, I still have lung issues from the pressure....other than posture, what really improved for me? My faith has improved. God has used this entire experience to mold me into who I am today both physically and emotionally. I can't say having the surgery is right or wrong for another, but I can say that having the surgery isn't some magic cure like many think it is. There are YEARS of recovery to be "fully recovered", endless physical therapy sessions, pain and more pain, limitations that make one feel like less than a full person. And after all this....there MIGHT be improvement in posture and improvement in health......that's a lot to endure for a few "mights".
Anyways, just another perspective from experience.

Thank you its good to hear about your experience and I'm sorry you had to go through all that.
Just curious, do you know what position you might have been in without any intervention?
Would that have been better, worse for you etc? Do you regret taking the chance surgery would
have worked etc?



We've been reading up about the various risks, outcomes in the UK. There has been new
procedures developed also even just within the last 5 years

If seems to be the case that the earlier it is done before the spine gets too twisted and all the
muscles/tendons etc settle into place then the outcome is better. But the longer it is left the
more severe it can get and the more complications seem to occur.

That is probably starting to be a factor now, she is getting more and more problems,
left untreated she is going to suffer greatly with breathing difficulties, posture, hip problems,
also that twisting can affect other organs which get displaced. Then there is the question of if she
could ever have children or live independently. But I suppose you will know more than I in
that respect.

So I suppose it is that, verses surgery which statistically gives normality back without problems
in 60% of cases.
Almost normal with some problems in another 20% of cases.
The last 20% fall into the category where there can be the need for further corrective surgery, of
that half will still have life long complications, so that leaves 10% of people where surgery does not
help.

For me, I think that is where God will do in the supernatural what medics can't do in the
natural. To do nothing and insist God heals her (regardless of whether that is actually
God's idea or not) isn't really an option in my opinion.

Without surgery or God's intervention she faces a life long and life limiting outcome 100%.

I realise the parents are in a difficult situation and its not one I would like to be in.
It is a concern though that they are not fully considering the whole picture and refuse
to even look at the whole picture and have been hiding hospital appointments from
the daughter.

I really wish with all my heart that it is God's plan to heal her in an instant without treatment.
I really do. I'm just not convinced that is the plan. It's interesting also that both the daughter
and another friend had these visions about envelopes with wings that could not get in the
house, that is absolutely spot on!

Maybe God is trying to tell them surgery is the right answer?

Its a hard one all round.

 

[Depleted]

Thanks for everyone's comments. I know they are not against medical
intervention as they have another daughter two years older than the
first, who had a chest/lung infection. In the end that daughter needed
surgery as a tear occurred on her lung and she has had surgery twice
for that.

But in regards to the younger daughter they really have got it into
their heads that God is going to heal her, maybe they are right. But
I just feel that 4 years of her life has been destroyed already when the
actual surgery could have been over and done with and the back healed
within the first year.

If the younger daughter did want surgery the would take care of her, they
would not disown her or anything like that. It just feel now that it is a
matter of pride, they have told all the church, family, friends that God is
going to heal her and they have accused others of unbelief. I think also that
they are a bit scared of the surgery it is drastic.


So if they concede surgery is the right thing now after all, they will
have to admit they got it wrong this time. I think also that there is a
spiritual element going on in that with every passing month, they are
getting more depressed themselves and questioning God, wondering why
God has not acted. This could be the thingy that ends up turning them away
from God, because God has not done it their way.

Sigh, What a mess.

They are good people honest, but this is what happens when someone
takes a verse here and a verse there out of context and makes it into a
whole philosophy and belief system out of it. Also the word of faith stuff they
have been watching has not helped as it has not provided the balanced view
point.

Funny thing is at one point they actually told me there must be some sort of
demonic oppression over my house due to so much happening with my
elderly aunt her health issues and that both me and my aunt need delivering.
But they can't see their own situation for what it is. (I would add that I have seen
so many answers to pray in my own situation that I know God is working).

Again they have been reading and watching unbalanced one sided things
regarding illness. It makes me more thankful for you all on here as
whatever a thread is about, you know you are going to get a whole bunch
of ideas and sides to consider and will never just get one side of the debate, even
if things do get a bit heated.


Maybe everyone who has been kind enough to post and comment could
pray about this situation. Prayer that the blinkers will come off.


Ps if God did miraculously intevene and heal the daughter, there would be no one
happier than me and I would gladly admit I got it wrong.

Thanks

I've been thinking of her through the night, and she's already on my mind this morning. (Just got up half an hour ago, and I'm not a morning person, so if a thought is already there by now, it's going to occupy all day.) And when I think, but can't fix, then I pray. (Which is why I'm pretty sure God really wishes I'd go for pray first. )

One of the things I was thinking though was do her parents withhold/read all her mail or just stuff from the doctors? Because she really could use a friend outside her family. And, no, I'm not volunteering you or me for the job. And, oddly enough, I'm not volunteering us because we both would start with our own agenda -- get her fixed.

We say things in writing that we don't dare say with our mouths. The true nature of our inward being is revealed often more in writing than in speech. Speech is where we say things to impress others too often. She could use a friend just to be there for her, and with email and texting being what I hear they are nowadays for the younger folks, that would give her an outlet to say, and then discuss, what she's really feeling. Any young folks in your church willing?

Because once you stop being afraid to be yourself through writing, you also do get different POVs, which can lead her into making her own decision on this -- whether she goes for surgery or not. All she needs is someone to trust enough to share the doubts and fears herself.

I don't know if you remember, but I sometimes talk about our (John and my) Second Dad, who was married to our Second Mom. They were an older couple, (eek! I just realized we're now older than they were. Wow!), who were volunteered/offered to let John live with them after he lost his home when his roommate got married. Sweetest couple you can imagine. (Even sweeter than Oldthennew, believe it or not. lol) They had been married for decades and never, ever fought. Not one single fight! (Which is why our pastor asked them to take John in, because John had gone through a tough marriage and divorce, is a very peaceful guy, but had to fight with his ex for self-preservation alone.)

But Second Dad was a hunchback. When he was 10 he got hit in the head with a baseball and that one thing stopped his right side from growing. His left side kept on growing, so the result was scoliosis to the point of being considered a hunchback. (Not his only health problem but the most noticeable one.)

His spinal column was more of a question-mark shape than the one in your picture, and, yes, of course it hurt all the time, but he became a mechanical engineer, found a good wife who he was sure was the most beautiful woman in the world, (and anyone who knew her knew she was the sweetest), had two sons, took in his wife's bachelor uncle when he started coming down with senior dementia, had a couple of animal-rescue dogs, had grandkids, let the church use their pool for baptisms, took in a stray Oxford-Circle Philly guy -- my future-hubby -- and chaperoned some dates of his with a South Jersey girl, until I became part of the family too. Pretty normal and wonderful life he had.

And then there is one of my brothers who was born with scoliosis, but was never given the choice of what to do about it because our OCD dad thought it was too expensive to pay for any of it. That brother finally went in for the operation when his back got so bad he couldn't golf anymore. (In his case, golf isn't just a pastime. It's where he conducts most of his business. Added bonus that he loves the game.) It did work for him. For two whole years his back didn't hurt at all. Then it started to. Then it got worse. Then he has had two more surgeries for when it does get bad enough to go for it. He knows, sooner or later golf is out of the picture, but he wants to keep going until later hits.

There is no harm if that's what the 18-year-old wants. The real harm is that she isn't given the choice of figuring out what she wants for herself. If you can find someone to become her friend, even if the friend can't convince her to go for it, at least she has a friend outside her family.

If her parents don't let her have a friend, then that proves my original thought -- I really do think they've got a lot invested in keeping their daughter with them safe-and-sound forever.

 

[ember]

In the USA and UK she may proceed without their consent when she reaches legal majority. She has done so by reaching age 18. It should well be time for her to grow up and take independent action since God helps those who help themselves.

as expressed, that girl does need to leave mom and dad's crippling (literally) company, but sorry, God helps those who help themselves is not biblical

however, there is definitely something to be said about a time for action...in her case, it's past due

 

[NewWine]

Thank you its good to hear about your experience and I'm sorry you had to go through all that.
Just curious, do you know what position you might have been in without any intervention?
Would that have been better, worse for you etc? Do you regret taking the chance surgery would
have worked etc?



We've been reading up about the various risks, outcomes in the UK. There has been new
procedures developed also even just within the last 5 years

If seems to be the case that the earlier it is done before the spine gets too twisted and all the
muscles/tendons etc settle into place then the outcome is better. But the longer it is left the
more severe it can get and the more complications seem to occur.

That is probably starting to be a factor now, she is getting more and more problems,
left untreated she is going to suffer greatly with breathing difficulties, posture, hip problems,
also that twisting can affect other organs which get displaced. Then there is the question of if she
could ever have children or live independently. But I suppose you will know more than I in
that respect.

So I suppose it is that, verses surgery which statistically gives normality back without problems
in 60% of cases.
Almost normal with some problems in another 20% of cases.
The last 20% fall into the category where there can be the need for further corrective surgery, of
that half will still have life long complications, so that leaves 10% of people where surgery does not
help.

For me, I think that is where God will do in the supernatural what medics can't do in the
natural. To do nothing and insist God heals her (regardless of whether that is actually
God's idea or not) isn't really an option in my opinion.

Without surgery or God's intervention she faces a life long and life limiting outcome 100%.

I realise the parents are in a difficult situation and its not one I would like to be in.
It is a concern though that they are not fully considering the whole picture and refuse
to even look at the whole picture and have been hiding hospital appointments from
the daughter.

I really wish with all my heart that it is God's plan to heal her in an instant without treatment.
I really do. I'm just not convinced that is the plan. It's interesting also that both the daughter
and another friend had these visions about envelopes with wings that could not get in the
house, that is absolutely spot on!

Maybe God is trying to tell them surgery is the right answer?

Its a hard one all round.

You're so right in that it's a hard one all around! I can't really answer your questions about how things would be had I done things differently. I would think that had I had surgery younger, it would have been easier, but I cannot say for certain. I can say there would have been less damage to repair, making the entire series of surgeries I had less invasive.
I just don't want anyone to read this series of posts and think this surgery will magically fix all her woes, and honestly even the best doctor in the world can't promise her this. Unfortunately I am running late this morning and can't stay to fully reply. I'll try to return this evening, however.
Peace!!

 

[Miri]

I've been thinking of her through the night, and she's already on my mind this morning. (Just got up half an hour ago, and I'm not a morning person, so if a thought is already there by now, it's going to occupy all day.) And when I think, but can't fix, then I pray. (Which is why I'm pretty sure God really wishes I'd go for pray first. )

One of the things I was thinking though was do her parents withhold/read all her mail or just stuff from the doctors? Because she really could use a friend outside her family. And, no, I'm not volunteering you or me for the job. And, oddly enough, I'm not volunteering us because we both would start with our own agenda -- get her fixed.

We say things in writing that we don't dare say with our mouths. The true nature of our inward being is revealed often more in writing than in speech. Speech is where we say things to impress others too often. She could use a friend just to be there for her, and with email and texting being what I hear they are nowadays for the younger folks, that would give her an outlet to say, and then discuss, what she's really feeling. Any young folks in your church willing?

Because once you stop being afraid to be yourself through writing, you also do get different POVs, which can lead her into making her own decision on this -- whether she goes for surgery or not. All she needs is someone to trust enough to share the doubts and fears herself.

I don't know if you remember, but I sometimes talk about our (John and my) Second Dad, who was married to our Second Mom. They were an older couple, (eek! I just realized we're now older than they were. Wow!), who were volunteered/offered to let John live with them after he lost his home when his roommate got married. Sweetest couple you can imagine. (Even sweeter than Oldthennew, believe it or not. lol) They had been married for decades and never, ever fought. Not one single fight! (Which is why our pastor asked them to take John in, because John had gone through a tough marriage and divorce, is a very peaceful guy, but had to fight with his ex for self-preservation alone.)

But Second Dad was a hunchback. When he was 10 he got hit in the head with a baseball and that one thing stopped his right side from growing. His left side kept on growing, so the result was scoliosis to the point of being considered a hunchback. (Not his only health problem but the most noticeable one.)

His spinal column was more of a question-mark shape than the one in your picture, and, yes, of course it hurt all the time, but he became a mechanical engineer, found a good wife who he was sure was the most beautiful woman in the world, (and anyone who knew her knew she was the sweetest), had two sons, took in his wife's bachelor uncle when he started coming down with senior dementia, had a couple of animal-rescue dogs, had grandkids, let the church use their pool for baptisms, took in a stray Oxford-Circle Philly guy -- my future-hubby -- and chaperoned some dates of his with a South Jersey girl, until I became part of the family too. Pretty normal and wonderful life he had.

And then there is one of my brothers who was born with scoliosis, but was never given the choice of what to do about it because our OCD dad thought it was too expensive to pay for any of it. That brother finally went in for the operation when his back got so bad he couldn't golf anymore. (In his case, golf isn't just a pastime. It's where he conducts most of his business. Added bonus that he loves the game.) It did work for him. For two whole years his back didn't hurt at all. Then it started to. Then it got worse. Then he has had two more surgeries for when it does get bad enough to go for it. He knows, sooner or later golf is out of the picture, but he wants to keep going until later hits.

There is no harm if that's what the 18-year-old wants. The real harm is that she isn't given the choice of figuring out what she wants for herself. If you can find someone to become her friend, even if the friend can't convince her to go for it, at least she has a friend outside her family.

If her parents don't let her have a friend, then that proves my original thought -- I really do think they've got a lot invested in keeping their daughter with them safe-and-sound forever.

Hi Lynn, it sounds like a good idea the friend thingy, she does have friends in church her own age,
although part of the problem is she is very self conscious about her body and hides under baggy
clothes. She has also learnt how to sit at a certain angle to sort of lesson the
mishape look of her back. Her scoliosis is more of the S shaped style from left to right, rather than the
poking outwards hunch back type.

This has all made her very shy, self conscious. I suppose it's bad enough going through the teen years
with hickies, teeth braces etc for some, but she has this twisted back which is more obvious. So she
doesnt like to socialise as much as the average teenager.

Her older sister recently got married and moved out so that is one possible out let, but they are
a very close family so maybe that won't work too well.

She did try art college for a few months but had to give it up due to problems with sitting for longish
periods of time. Her parents do allow her freedom and encourage her to go out.

Re the mail, I think that in some mis guided way they were trying not to upset her or not worry
her by presenting her with more hospital appointments. I get the impression that on the surface
the parents especially put on this "everything is good, God is good, we have faith, we are ok" front.
But at home there is a lot of questioning, stress, arguments about all this. As far as I know it has
only been the hospital letters they have kept. They have now stopped doing this since it was
pointed out it was illegal.

You have a good idea though there about the friends, she needs to have some thinking space
to look into it all for herself and the implications and make decisions. I think that is so important
now for her. It's not just her current health but also her future which is at stake.

I don't think she is at that point yet though, her mum (my friend) can be quite formidable at
times, she is a maths teacher and she sometimes goes into strict teacher mode. It doesn't
work on me lol. But you can imagine that it will work on a timid 18 year old.

This all probably makes them out to be terrible people, but honestly they are not like that at
all. They are just normal people trying to do what they feel is best for their family. On this
one point though they seem so blinkered.

The dad is a really nice person, he can hold his own he is not down trodden or anything but he
will always support his wife. They always present a united front to everyone no matter what goes
on in their own house.

Sorry to wake you

 

[presidente]

Wow! That is a tough one. I do believe God heals miraculously, but I am not against surgery or His healing through and after surgery. The letter visions seems interesting, and I can see how you would interpret that in favor of surgery.

If I were them and I were depending on a supernatural instant healing, I'd be going place to find that, meetings where someone with that gift was present, a trip to a guy at a homeless shelter in Oklahoma who ministers in healing, or to a Denmark street evangelist who ministers in that way, or something like that, or at least find a healing room ministry, or a trip to China or India or some place else where a lot of healings are going on. Some people may just pray alone.

If it were me, I'd certainly consider surgery.

 

[peacenik]

There's legal, and then there is reality. Sure, legally she can have the surgery.
A. Who's taking her there?
B. Who's convincing her that her parents have played a psychological game on her for at least four years?
C. Who's comforting her when she's in the hospital?
D. Where does she go afterward to heal?
E. And then what? She's 18 with no job, no payable skills, and no way to live her own life from the moment she's released from that hospital.

Sadly, that's the reality for this, so do legal implications really matter?

Her parents set her up to be this helpless. She has no idea what's really happening because they are her parents and she's assuming everything about her parents that anyone assumes when they grow up in a family that takes such very good care of them. This life she lives in is very much her parents doing, but they're making darn sure absolutely no one catches on and no one reaches her to tell her even if anyone so much as suspects. She's not some spoiled kid. She's a victim.

And for the record, God does NOT help those who help themselves. That is the antithesis of the biblical message. God helps those that he purposely opened their eyes to that they finally realize how helpless they are without him!

I hate using Ben Franklin's saying, as if he even believed in the God of the Bible, as any form of the real gospel.

If all this is true then someone who knows the story and is a true friend needs to petition a court and have a legal guardian appointed. Thereafter, the monitor will follow guidelines set up by the court and this girls will get the medical attention she needs. Those who call themselves her "friends" will not sit by idly and watch her erode any further as endangering the welfare of an incompetent is a felony.

 

[Miri]

If all this is true then someone who knows the story and is a true friend needs to petition a court and have a legal guardian appointed. Thereafter, the monitor will follow guidelines set up by the court and this girls will get the medical attention she needs. Those who call themselves her "friends" will not sit by idly and watch her erode any further as endangering the welfare of an incompetent is a felony.

Wrong terminology for the UK, and at age 18 she no longer needs a legal guardian, for
that matter she did not need one at 16 according to UK law.

At 16 you can leave home, get a full time job, get married, have sex legally in the UK.
Not that im suggesting a 16 year old is mature enough for all of that, it's just how the ages
are set in the UK.

Although strangley enough you can't drink outside the home until you are 18 and
you can't vote until 18.


ps Lynn was referring to the practicalities involved.

 

[peacenik]

Wrong terminology for the UK, and at age 18 she no longer needs a legal guardian, for
that matter she did not need one at 16 according to UK law.

At 16 you can leave home, get a full time job, get married, have sex legally in the UK.
Not that im suggesting a 16 year old is mature enough for all of that, it's just how the ages
are set in the UK.

Although strangley enough you can't drink outside the home until you are 18 and
you can't vote until 18.


ps Lynn was referring to the practicalities involved.

Thanks for your reply.

Your note does confirm that she is of legal majority. Yet, she is said to be helpless in this situation. Therefore, a true friend would immediately take action to have a magistrate intervene and appoint a fiduciary before further damage is done to this girl who obviously is a vulnerable adult. As I wrote before endangering the welfare of an incompetent is felonious and immediate action must be taken regardless of "practicalities".

 

[oldethennew]

Different issue, but try going to a different kind of doctor. John's kidney doctor told him he needed surgery to remove cancer on his kidney. 8 inch gash to cut him open and a month in the hospital. (Little did we know a month was no big deal.)

The surgeon wasn't. He was a medical student, and dumb enough to tell what he shouldn't have told -- that the cancer could be frozen out with a needle, instead of surgery. And from that one word -- cryoablasion -- said by mistake, we researched the alternatives, and that's how the cancer was killed! Twice surgery was the answer in our lives, only later to find out there were other choices. I live with the mistake made during surgery for the rest of my life.

There are usually other choices, but MD's are simply taught "surgery is the answer" as a mantra. Find someone who doesn't automatically go for "surgery is the answer.


Miri, not for you to dwell on with your friend. Surgery is the answer for that kind of scoliosis.[/QUOTE

==========================================================

Lynn, thanks for the reply...

I did go with alternative healing methods and these were what kept me going/mobile...
acupuncture and chiropractor and diet were and are the main ingredients that have made my
life a lot more tolerable....

 

[presidente]

It's hardly the same thing, rape, molestation never was the issue, you are
letting your imagination run away with you. The web site you posted also
only intervened on medical neglect cases in certain circumstsnces but not all.
So even in the US there are limitations as to when child services will get involved
if you scroll down and take a look in regards to medical issues.

Besides I think there is an age difference between the UK and USA.

At age 16 over here, you can leave home, get a job, get married with parental
consent etc. The daughter is now 18 so she is already at the age of consent
separate from her parents decision making.

It probably depends on the state, but in the US it is possible for a financially self-supporting 16-year-old to go through a legal process to become an 'emancipated teenager.' But it isn't easy, and it doesn't happen enough for me to know that I've met one.

 

[Depleted]

It probably depends on the state, but in the US it is possible for a financially self-supporting 16-year-old to go through a legal process to become an 'emancipated teenager.' But it isn't easy, and it doesn't happen enough for me to know that I've met one.

And emancipated minors get their slim health insurances from the state, so still couldn't get back surgery, still couldn't get anyone to help them before or after surgery, and are expected to be making their own living.

I'm not sure which is worse -- kids stuck living in the system or emancipated minors. If you met one, you'd know it. They're the kids living in a slightly worse living arrangements than adults just getting out of prison.

(I have worked in the system and the futility of it made me bail in 1.5 years.)

 

[peacenik]

But again, she is 18 years old (an adult) and lives in the UK which has universal health care. What she really needs is for someone to stand up, petition a magistrate, and have a fiduciary appointed to manage her affairs.


People need to stop waiting for some one else to take corrective action, NOW.

 

[Depleted]

But again, she is 18 years old (an adult) and lives in the UK which has universal health care. What she really needs is for someone to stand up, petition a magistrate, and have a fiduciary appointed to manage her affairs.


People need to stop waiting for some one else to take corrective action, NOW.

Let us pretend you are that person.

So, okay, you take it into the justice system... oh, and even win. (Although, again, since she is an adult and is being cared for, I'm not sure they'd hear the case.)

What's the rest of your plan? Because all you've done is terrified and confused her and angered her family. She is now officially your responsibility.

And then what?

It's so easy to tell other people what they should do when you know you, personally, can't do a thing. So, what would you then do? And make it realistic.