St George & The Dragon for Depleted

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M

Miri

Guest
#1
Hi Lyn,

He is part real, part urban legend, part folk tale, part religious icon to some,
part hero, part fantasy.:)

Most people in the UK have heard of him but very few know anything about
him.


BBC - Religions - Christianity: Saint George
 
M

MadParrotWoman

Guest
#2
Patron saint of England who wasn't exactly English...I still think 23rd April should be a bank holiday though!
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#3
Is this what the dragon in the Welsh flag is about too? Or is that a different dragon?
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#4
Hi Lyn,

He is part real, part urban legend, part folk tale, part religious icon to some,
part hero, part fantasy.:)

Most people in the UK have heard of him but very few know anything about
him.


BBC - Religions - Christianity: Saint George
I do know him, but because I'm into oddball fantasy tropes. I just got the significance of that whole part of Stargate 1 when Merlin showed up. (Yes, also related to the King Arthur legion, but there was a vanquish-the-dragon quest SG1 team had to figure out.) And I know a good save-the-princess-from-sacrifice-to-the-monster trope when I see one. (King Kong was a switch-the-roles take-off, where the monster was just misunderstood.) He's also like Katniss protecting her little sister.

I do know the tale, except it's sort of like King Arthur. It had a beginning and has been fortified, mystified, turned on its head, swapped around, and turned inside out over the centuries. Cool! I don't feel as dumb as I did admitting that I didn't know anymore.

Ends up I knew about as much as most people. He probably really did exist, lived before the Dark Ages, and so much of his story is lost all we're kind of sure about is he was probably a Christian. Slightly more obscure than the patron saint of my ancestors -- St. Patrick. (Italian dude most noted for telling the Irish about the trinity using clover. Hey, you call it shamrocks. Looks like clover to me. lol)

One of the big advantages I think Americans have over Europeans is our history. You guys have to go back to the era of hunters-gatherers for your history, and so much of it is obscure. We go from Leif Erickson, to Chris Columbus, and then skip a couple of centuries to go straight to a couple of groups of Europeans thought it was a good idea to go to a new continent to find all that gold, only to find all those trees. (And something vague about who was already living here. I mean, I don't even know the name of the nations that helped out the guys at Plymouth Rock or Jamestown, because they were given an umbrella name that doesn't even fit -- Indians.) And then from there to some nutty King in England who actually thought we'd pay that much taxes for tea. (I recently found out that king really was nuts somehow.) Most of the history we learn in school has to do with starting at 1776. When does your history start and how much are you supposed to learn? Because you have a whole lot more history than we do.

BTW, thanks. You just educated a Yankee.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#5
Patron saint of England who wasn't exactly English...I still think 23rd April should be a bank holiday though!
I love your term for days-off holidays. Don't you really want the banks to be open on a no-work day when you have a perfectly good excuse to go shopping or go see a movie, which takes money anyway? Our banks are still open on most days-off holidays, except for the big three. (New Year's, Thanksgiving, and Christmas are the only days most businesses are closed, until recently, when "sales" overpowered common sense.)
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#7
Is this what the dragon in the Welsh flag is about too? Or is that a different dragon?
Are dragons a common critter in European history? I always thought there were maybe two or three in the entire European continent, but they lived for a couple thousand years, so it didn't matter. (And is Nessie supposed to be a dragon?) I thought most dragons lived in Asia. :rolleyes:

(I really do think there were dragons, it's just that they were really dinosaurs, and didn't breathe fire. And I really am tossed on if the gila monster is a dragon. For all we know, an iguana might be a dragon.)
 
M

MadParrotWoman

Guest
#8
I love your term for days-off holidays. Don't you really want the banks to be open on a no-work day when you have a perfectly good excuse to go shopping or go see a movie, which takes money anyway? Our banks are still open on most days-off holidays, except for the big three. (New Year's, Thanksgiving, and Christmas are the only days most businesses are closed, until recently, when "sales" overpowered common sense.)
It's just a British term for "public holiday". The banks close but it doesn't stop us shopping or having fun! ;) :p
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#9
Hmmm. Good question.
I think most of the dragons are connected with Catholic saints? There aren't any Norwegian dragons, but we do have :

Nisser : A bit like goblins, but they can sometimes be evil rather than just naughty
Tusser: Similar to nisser (I think), but unless I am mistaken, they live under the ground.
Troll : Trolls (Big, evil, normally stupid.)
Alver / Feer : Fairies (Also have a slight tendency to be mischievous or evil)
Draugen: Sea / water monster
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#10
Oh, an of course if you go back to the times when Norse mythology was alive there was stuff like Fenrisulven (the Fenris wolf) and Midgardsormen (the Middle earth serpent), Hugin and Munin (the ravens of Odin) ...and maybe the rams of Thor had names, I can't remember at the moment.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#11
Hmmm. Good question.
I think most of the dragons are connected with Catholic saints? There aren't any Norwegian dragons, but we do have :

Nisser : A bit like goblins, but they can sometimes be evil rather than just naughty
Tusser: Similar to nisser (I think), but unless I am mistaken, they live under the ground.
Troll : Trolls (Big, evil, normally stupid.)
Alver / Feer : Fairies (Also have a slight tendency to be mischievous or evil)
Draugen: Sea / water monster
Ha! Norberta, the Norwegian Ridgeback! Where else would it come from if not Norway? :p
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#12
Lol yes, I was going to mention that
but I doubt anyone much older than 30 would have heard about that one :p
 
M

Miri

Guest
#13
Is this what the dragon in the Welsh flag is about too? Or is that a different dragon?

I tend to get mixed up between the lions, dragons and unicorns. So no good
asking me lol.

Crown approved stamp, so for example the Royal Mail, all our post
boxes have this on them.

vic-arms.jpg


British Royal family arms

arms.jpg
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#14
Hehe
Yea, I noticed lots of unicorns in Scotland.
The lions are on the Norwegian emblems as well.

 
M

Miri

Guest
#15
Oh you mean this Welsh dragon.

Wouldnt you know just know it. lol. It seems to harken back to
Rome, King Arthur, Merlin again.


The Welsh Dragon, symbol of Wales


This all reminds me of a poem I had to learn in school years ago, let me see
something like.

Twas brillig and the slithy something did gyre and gimble in the wabe.
All mimsy were the borrow groves and the moonraths outgrabe.
Twas the jabberwock my friend the jaws that bite the claws that catch, the
jub jub bird the something something.

Then there was a bit about the vorbal blade went snicker snack, he took the
head and left it dead....

All complete nonsense but you tend to remember nonsense when you are a kid!
But it was a tale of someone killing something, probably a knight killing a dragon.
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#16
Cool
I've heard of Cadwaladr , but I can never remember Welsh names for some strange reason :p
and I'd forgotten about the Tudors having anything to do with Wales at all :p (you guys have some seriously complicated history)
 
M

Miri

Guest
#17
Are dragons a common critter in European history? I always thought there were maybe two or three in the entire European continent, but they lived for a couple thousand years, so it didn't matter. (And is Nessie supposed to be a dragon?) I thought most dragons lived in Asia. :rolleyes:

(I really do think there were dragons, it's just that they were really dinosaurs, and didn't breathe fire. And I really am tossed on if the gila monster is a dragon. For all we know, an iguana might be a dragon.)

There is lots of fantasy dragon stories, I remember as a kid reading about the laird and
the giant worm, something which was dragon like, and fire breathing dragons galore.

Of course there was always a handsome prince and a fair maiden who had to be rescued.
She had usually gotten into a mess either because the evil brother had kidnapped her or
because the town had to sacrifice a fair maiden to save themselves. Lol

Its interesting how all these dragon stories have crept into most folk lore. You are
probably right about there being some sort of dragon like beasties about at some
point. I wonder though why they liked gold. Lol

Or maybe it is a throw back to Satan/dragon etc.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#18
Hmmm. Good question.
I think most of the dragons are connected with Catholic saints? There aren't any Norwegian dragons, but we do have :

Nisser : A bit like goblins, but they can sometimes be evil rather than just naughty
Tusser: Similar to nisser (I think), but unless I am mistaken, they live under the ground.
Troll : Trolls (Big, evil, normally stupid.)
Alver / Feer : Fairies (Also have a slight tendency to be mischievous or evil)
Draugen: Sea / water monster

Trolls haven't changed much have they :p
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#19
Lol yes, I was going to mention that
but I doubt anyone much older than 30 would have heard about that one :p
About like thinking anyone under 30 couldn't possibly be interested in Star Wars. lol
 
M

Miri

Guest
#20
,
I do know him, but because I'm into oddball fantasy tropes. I just got the significance of that whole part of Stargate 1 when Merlin showed up. (Yes, also related to the King Arthur legion, but there was a vanquish-the-dragon quest SG1 team had to figure out.) And I know a good save-the-princess-from-sacrifice-to-the-monster trope when I see one. (King Kong was a switch-the-roles take-off, where the monster was just misunderstood.) He's also like Katniss protecting her little sister.

I do know the tale, except it's sort of like King Arthur. It had a beginning and has been fortified, mystified, turned on its head, swapped around, and turned inside out over the centuries. Cool! I don't feel as dumb as I did admitting that I didn't know anymore.

Ends up I knew about as much as most people. He probably really did exist, lived before the Dark Ages, and so much of his story is lost all we're kind of sure about is he was probably a Christian. Slightly more obscure than the patron saint of my ancestors -- St. Patrick. (Italian dude most noted for telling the Irish about the trinity using clover. Hey, you call it shamrocks. Looks like clover to me. lol)

One of the big advantages I think Americans have over Europeans is our history. You guys have to go back to the era of hunters-gatherers for your history, and so much of it is obscure. We go from Leif Erickson, to Chris Columbus, and then skip a couple of centuries to go straight to a couple of groups of Europeans thought it was a good idea to go to a new continent to find all that gold, only to find all those trees. (And something vague about who was already living here. I mean, I don't even know the name of the nations that helped out the guys at Plymouth Rock or Jamestown, because they were given an umbrella name that doesn't even fit -- Indians.) And then from there to some nutty King in England who actually thought we'd pay that much taxes for tea. (I recently found out that king really was nuts somehow.) Most of the history we learn in school has to do with starting at 1776. When does your history start and how much are you supposed to learn? Because you have a whole lot more history than we do.

BTW, thanks. You just educated a Yankee.
I really loved history at school, not the King/Queen stuff that was boring.

I mean the fire of London stuff, plague, then there was the off with
everyone's head period. I also did the history of medicine at school, fascinating.

There is actually a museum I have been to see which is about the history of medicine.
It is attached to a hospital of all places.

They have mock ups of medieval surgery, chopping off limbs with no anaesthetic, that
sort of thing. Plus old wives remedies. Like if you have a sore throat, tying a toad or a
frog under your chin or putting one in your mouth. Hence the quote have you got a frog in
your throat!

They thought bad smells caused illness so the cure was sniff something that smelt nice.
Hence people swooning about with hankies sniffing them.

They also have a display of various ancient surgical instruments. Very scary I tell ya. Lol

The other thing which stands out is learning about peat bog man. A dead body found
in a bog perfectly preserved and even had seeds from his last meal in his stomache.
You can actually look up peat bog men on the internet but I don't know which peat bog
men we looked at.

I was a bit of a gruesome child. Lol more frogs and snails and puppy dogs tails.:)

That is an old poem
What are little girls made of, sugar and spice and all things nice.
What are little boys made of, frogs and snails and puppy dog tails.