Delicate situation with a friend

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M

Miri

Guest
#41
But again, she is 18 years old (an adult) and lives in the UK which has universal health care. What she really needs is for someone to stand up, petition a magistrate, and have a fiduciary appointed to manage her affairs.


People need to stop waiting for some one else to take corrective action, NOW.

PN, there is nothing currently stopping her from making the decision to have surgery
herself IF she feels she wants to. Her parents do not have her under lock and key.

You need to read the whole thread, her parents decided not to opt for surgery when she
was first diagnosed, some hospital letters were withheld recently, they are not doing that
anymore. Besides if she wanted to contact the hospital herself she could do.
The parents strongly feel God is going to heal her and that train of thought has
been their mantra for the past 4 years. I don't know if this is correct or not, but they seem
convinced of it. There again they seem to think she is going to be a missionary to Japan just
because she has taken an interest in Japanese!

I suppose all parents have big expectations and desires for their children, some just are not
very realistic.


IF she decided she wants the surgery of her own volition, then the hospital will put
things in motion and I know her parents won't stand in her way. They would look after her.

No courts in the land would force an 18 year old to have major surgery. She is no longer a child
in UK legal terms.
The issue is that for the past 4 years her parents have made that decision
for her not to have surgery, as a child she was very much influenced by them and still is.
Not many 14-18 years would want to disappoint their parents. Or think they might be wrong,
especially one who has been sheltered due to a disabilitating illness.

She needs to come to a point where she feels she can make the decision for herself
weighing up all the facts and preferably without the biased opinion of her parents hanging
over her. No court in the land would make that decision for an adult. No court in the land
would rule either that major surgery was the right path or the wrong path to take.

I'm not sure why you think she needs someone to manage her affairs. She is not mentally
incapacitated and no longer a juvenile. Just naive and young. Many 18 year olds are.

As mentioned earlier, we are praying that the daughter will be able to think for herself and
put aside her parents influence. The parents also need to wake up to the fact that they
have to allow the daughter space to make her own decision without their influence.
Ideally the parents also need to look at the whole issue properly as well.

There are adults who are offered treatment for a variety of medical complaints who refuse
treatment for their own reasons. That is up to them.

The difficulty in this instance is that the parents have been making that decision on behalf
of another due to her being under age and their belief she would be healed.

Now she has to start making those decisions for herself, it's hard, she is young, she has
lived 4 years thinking God will heal her because her parents said so. It is hard to go
against the wishes and thinking of your parents, even for someone in their 20s, 30s etc as
we are very much influenced by our parents.

One of the common themes on CC is where a person's parents get involved in their lives, spoil
relationships, take a dislike to spouses etc. This is just a different type of parental problem.
It was a major problem then as a young teen. Now it is still a problem for this adult 18 year old
who is going to have to grow up very quickly and be very mature about this. Yes we can help
her if she wants it, and make ourselves available if she wants a different person to attend
hospital appointment with etc. Even that would be tricky due to the parents.

There is the ongoing problem when anyone brings up the issue of surgery, the parents get
very uppity about it and accuse people of not having faith. They even got annoyed at one of the
pastors who asked when the surgery was going to take place.


Court rulings, etc are not the answer and they would not be appropriate in any case as she is now an
adult.
 

Pilkington

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2015
640
101
28
#42
There is no easy answers. I think the main thing is to pray about the situation in particular that God would open the eyes of her parents to the fact that they could be mistaken. I totally can see why they would not want to admit they are mistaken particularly after all this time.

I am certain that she would be deemed as having mental capacity to make the decision on whether to have surgery or not. I am praying that she would get all the facts and be able to make a decision for herself as to whether to have the surgery or not.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#43
PN, there is nothing currently stopping her from making the decision to have surgery
herself IF she feels she wants to. Her parents do not have her under lock and key.

You need to read the whole thread, her parents decided not to opt for surgery when she
was first diagnosed, some hospital letters were withheld recently, they are not doing that
anymore. Besides if she wanted to contact the hospital herself she could do.
The parents strongly feel God is going to heal her and that train of thought has
been their mantra for the past 4 years. I don't know if this is correct or not, but they seem
convinced of it. There again they seem to think she is going to be a missionary to Japan just
because she has taken an interest in Japanese!

I suppose all parents have big expectations and desires for their children, some just are not
very realistic.


IF she decided she wants the surgery of her own volition, then the hospital will put
things in motion and I know her parents won't stand in her way. They would look after her.

No courts in the land would force an 18 year old to have major surgery. She is no longer a child
in UK legal terms.
The issue is that for the past 4 years her parents have made that decision
for her not to have surgery, as a child she was very much influenced by them and still is.
Not many 14-18 years would want to disappoint their parents. Or think they might be wrong,
especially one who has been sheltered due to a disabilitating illness.

She needs to come to a point where she feels she can make the decision for herself
weighing up all the facts and preferably without the biased opinion of her parents hanging
over her. No court in the land would make that decision for an adult. No court in the land
would rule either that major surgery was the right path or the wrong path to take.

I'm not sure why you think she needs someone to manage her affairs. She is not mentally
incapacitated and no longer a juvenile. Just naive and young. Many 18 year olds are.

As mentioned earlier, we are praying that the daughter will be able to think for herself and
put aside her parents influence. The parents also need to wake up to the fact that they
have to allow the daughter space to make her own decision without their influence.
Ideally the parents also need to look at the whole issue properly as well.

There are adults who are offered treatment for a variety of medical complaints who refuse
treatment for their own reasons. That is up to them.

The difficulty in this instance is that the parents have been making that decision on behalf
of another due to her being under age and their belief she would be healed.

Now she has to start making those decisions for herself, it's hard, she is young, she has
lived 4 years thinking God will heal her because her parents said so. It is hard to go
against the wishes and thinking of your parents, even for someone in their 20s, 30s etc as
we are very much influenced by our parents.

One of the common themes on CC is where a person's parents get involved in their lives, spoil
relationships, take a dislike to spouses etc. This is just a different type of parental problem.
It was a major problem then as a young teen. Now it is still a problem for this adult 18 year old
who is going to have to grow up very quickly and be very mature about this. Yes we can help
her if she wants it, and make ourselves available if she wants a different person to attend
hospital appointment with etc. Even that would be tricky due to the parents.

There is the ongoing problem when anyone brings up the issue of surgery, the parents get
very uppity about it and accuse people of not having faith. They even got annoyed at one of the
pastors who asked when the surgery was going to take place.


Court rulings, etc are not the answer and they would not be appropriate in any case as she is now an
adult.
Miri, just so you know, in the States, an 18 year old can get married without parental consent, can join the military, and can do anything else adults can do but drink. So, yup, she's legal in the vast majority of countries. (Possibly all countries.)
 

peacenik

Senior Member
May 11, 2016
3,071
26
38
#44
Let us pretend you are that person.

So, okay, you take it into the justice system... oh, and even win. (Although, again, since she is an adult and is being cared for, I'm not sure they'd hear the case.)

What's the rest of your plan? Because all you've done is terrified and confused her and angered her family. She is now officially your responsibility.

And then what?

It's so easy to tell other people what they should do when you know you, personally, can't do a thing. So, what would you then do? And make it realistic.





That is a fair challenge and I welcome the opportunity to answer. Many years ago I went to law school but never found any use for my worthless law degree. However, I did learn of the importance of such fiduciary relationships and responsibilities. While I did some limited study in fiduciary/estate/trust law, I did come across a small handful of cases which match the facts and circumstances in this matter. The result: a life was saved when people exercised their proper responsibilities as dutiful citizens by contacting the authorities.

It does not matter that someone became "confused" or that certain irresponsible parents had their feelings hurt. What mattered was that a vulnerable adult (for that is what this young lady is at present) had his/her life saved.


I have twice in my life saved another person's life. One because I used my legal background which helped a needy friend in a court of law. Perhaps I shouldn't say this because it may sound boastful (if it is please forgive me in advance), the other time I did so at considerable risk to my own life because a blind man was about to fall off a cliff. I did not get, nor ask for any award, nor do I deserve one. I just did what was the right thing to do.


If this young lady was my neighbor, I would do the same for her come h_ll or high water. Assuming that the laws of the UK in this matter correspond with those of the USA, a vulnerable adult is entitled to the same legal protection that a child does. When a child's life is jeopardized it is a person's responsibility to contact the proper authorities to insure that the child gets the rightful protection mandated by the law. This also follows for a vulnerable adult (this in the USA). On that basis, a responsible person, neighbor, extended family member of whomever must do right by contacting the proper authorities.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#45
That is a fair challenge and I welcome the opportunity to answer. Many years ago I went to law school but never found any use for my worthless law degree. However, I did learn of the importance of such fiduciary relationships and responsibilities. While I did some limited study in fiduciary/estate/trust law, I did come across a small handful of cases which match the facts and circumstances in this matter. The result: a life was saved when people exercised their proper responsibilities as dutiful citizens by contacting the authorities.

It does not matter that someone became "confused" or that certain irresponsible parents had their feelings hurt. What mattered was that a vulnerable adult (for that is what this young lady is at present) had his/her life saved.


I have twice in my life saved another person's life. One because I used my legal background which helped a needy friend in a court of law. Perhaps I shouldn't say this because it may sound boastful (if it is please forgive me in advance), the other time I did so at considerable risk to my own life because a blind man was about to fall off a cliff. I did not get, nor ask for any award, nor do I deserve one. I just did what was the right thing to do.


If this young lady was my neighbor, I would do the same for her come h_ll or high water. Assuming that the laws of the UK in this matter correspond with those of the USA, a vulnerable adult is entitled to the same legal protection that a child does. When a child's life is jeopardized it is a person's responsibility to contact the proper authorities to insure that the child gets the rightful protection mandated by the law. This also follows for a vulnerable adult (this in the USA). On that basis, a responsible person, neighbor, extended family member of whomever must do right by contacting the proper authorities.
You don't know distraught people, do you?
 

peacenik

Senior Member
May 11, 2016
3,071
26
38
#46
Depleted; said:
You don't know distraught people, do you?

On another thread I discussed part of my personal history. Others who have suffered far less than I have committed suicide.

The OP asks for ideas on how to handle the situation. The most I can do is offer my thoughts. If that is not OK and the girl ultimately dies because her condition went untreated, then so be it.

Henceforth I wash my hands of this matter.