Hell. It is in the Bible isnt it?

[RickyZ]

Back to the OP...

Yes hell is in the Bible. It's in the end times, it's in the parable, it's in the grave, it's in the world, I even see a bit of it in here - messing with the brethren. That's the thing about God's word, it's huge and it's eternal. That means not now, but always. That means not future, but always. That means not past, but always. Always.

We see hell in the end. We suffer from it now. It has burned our britches since the fall.

Is hell in the Bible? It's half the book. The other half is about the way out. The whole Bible is about hell - and it's avoidance.

I hope we all can agree to avoid it a little better in here. Me included.

 

[Gr8grace]

Back to the OP...

Yes hell is in the Bible. It's in the end times, it's in the parable, it's in the grave, it's in the world, I even see a bit of it in here - messing with the brethren. That's the thing about God's word, it's huge and it's eternal. That means not now, but always. That means not future, but always. That means not past, but always. Always.

We see hell in the end. We suffer from it now. It has burned our britches since the fall.

Is hell in the Bible? It's half the book. The other half is about the way out. The whole Bible is about hell - and it's avoidance.

I hope we all can agree to avoid it a little better in here. Me included.

Hell is not half the bible. Where do you get that? The other half is the way out? Where do you get that?

Even salvation and how to be saved is a very, very small part of the bible.

99% of it is to how to live as a Believer. Salvation is mentioned so little because it is easy.......Just believe. Hell is mentioned so little because if you don't believe thats where one goes.

 

[RickyZ]

Salvation is the whole sum of the Bible.



Ephphatha!

 

[Armini3]

hmmm those that are sent away during the final judgment won't have the luxury of "chewing on things" other then gnashing on their own teeth, take care of yours brush and floss daily...those that reject jesus wont have that luxury...

I'm going to bed. I hope ya'll put some thought into my questions and give me something I can really chew on. There appears to be a lot of wood, hay and straw in this thread.

 

[Armini3]

That's just the line for Heavenly government assistance, its a pretty long line people have to get there pretty early in the morning to get a number.

Ever notice Revelation has the "rejects" sitting right outside the open gates to the city, able to see in, but unable to enter?

 

[Ahwatukee]

@MsSuzanna

A Question
To all who believe that God will torment people eternally.

Would you torture anyone.
Likely not.

So what you are in effect saying is that...
God is unrighteous, and you are more righteous than he is, which is a Lie.

Jesus said
You are of your father, the devil,
and your will is to do your father's desires. - John 8:44

View attachment 149569

That's all I have to say here
Carry On and enjoy the parade...
While it lasts.

Hello TheStudent,

Jer.7:31 is not relative to this issue. Because the people of Israel were doing what God warned them not to do by following after the god's of the surrounding nations, Israel began to sacrifice their children in the flames in worship of Molech, which God did not require nor did it enter His mind. This has nothing to do with God's judgment for those who die in their sins. This is just a misapplication of scripture on your part.

 

[JustWhoIAm]

What does the bible say about reconciliation? Maybe if we all get better at that this hell stuff would work itself out.

Didn't read the spat that was going on, but this as a standalone quote is amazing. God bless you. Thanks.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I'd take it a step further and say that it can be harmful to an immature Christian or unbeliever.

Hello Sirk,

That fact that the teaching of eternal punishment in everlasting fire is taught in scripture, means that it is a subject that God wants us to tell others about. Jesus himself told his disciples and all believers, to "fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in everlasting fire." There is no way to separate the preaching of Christ from eternal punishment and that because Jesus came to save us. If we as a believer preach that Christ came to save, the natural question from the one being preached to would be "saved from what?" When we have the opportunity to witness, we should present both sides i.e. the consequences of sin and the good news of how to escape condemning judgment.

It is imperative that when preaching Christ to unbelievers, that they understand they are in danger in their current state. Regarding eternal punishment in the lake of fire, a person doesn't have to do anything to go there and that because they are already on their way, guaranteed, unless they receive Christ. Jesus' whole purpose for coming was to save mankind from God's wrath and condemning judgment.

 

[Ahwatukee]

If a tyrannical God is what you want to present to someone that is sad. Only love can lead people to the place of a Godly personal sorrow for what Jesus has done. The alternative is forced sorrow and it leads to death.

Sirk, why is God "tyranical?" Did Jesus not say "fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in everlasting fire?" In that verse it tells us who we should fear and with what kind of fear. The mention of destroying both body and soul in everlasting fire is the reason given for fearing him. There is then no mistaking what kind of fear that the verse is talking about. Because of sin, God the Father didn't even hold back His wrath upon His own Son. So what kind of wrath and punishment do you think is coming to those who reject His Son whom He sacrificed for us? God is not a tyrant, but will merely be meeting out His divine justice.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Ok so I pose this question once again to MsSusanna. Given that Jesus paid the price for all sin (I assume everyone here agrees on that) and the punishment for dying apart from Christ (in sin) is eternal concious damnation and torture. Why does it appear that Jesus got a get of jail free card in regards to the penalty of the sin he paid for being eternal damnation and torture? I think it's a legit question and for me, it is a glaring discrepancy in regards to the consistency and justice of God and the eternal hell fire doctrine.

Hello Sirk,

Here is the short version to your answer:

* All have sinned and fall short of God's righteous standards

* The reward for sin is death

* Jesus who was without sin paid the penalty for sin, the righteous for the unrighteous.

Death only has power over those who have sin and where there is no sin, death has no power. Though Jesus paid the penalty for sin, He Himself was without sin and therefore death could not hold him and He rose on the third day. This is exactly what Paul meant when he wrote to the Corinthians regarding the resurrection and said, "If Christ has not been raised, then your faith is in vain and you are all still in your sins." The meaning behind this is that, if Christ had not resurrected, it would mean that death had power over Him and was able to keep Him, which would mean that He would be guilty of sin and if he was guilty of sin, then He could not possibly pay the penalty for the sins of mankind. The result of this would be that neither could believers be resurrected and that because we would still be in our sins.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Ge hinnon was a valley where the garbage and dead bodies were burnt.
Why cannot be gehenna described as being set on fire?

Hi Trofimus,

This is to Willie,

Hi Willie, scripture makes it very clear in many places, that fire is the form of torment that the unrighteous will suffer from. The only way that you can get around this fact is by distorting the meaning of flame or fire to mean something else.

* The lake of fire
* The smoke of their torment
* Depart from Me into everlasting fire prepared for Satan and his angels
* And the beast and the false prophet were captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire
* Have Lazarus go dip his finger in the water for I am in torment in this flame
* And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I could go on and on! However, aside from the torment in flame, though that will definitely be punishing for those who experience it, but I believe that being separated from God will be worse. Because even though people continue to reject God, I believe that God is still apart of them. But when they are judged and cast into the lake of fire, whatever part of God that was still within them will be completely removed and I don't think that will be something that will be realized until they experience it.

 

[Ahwatukee]

This is just a sick video with someone's sick interpretation of what happens after death, the dead know nothing and I don't believe there is an afterlife, there is no proof of an afterlife, the rich man and lazarus is a parable, if you research you will see that many Christians say that death ends life, there is nothing after death for most people and that hell/sheol/hades is the common grave of mankind.

The only hellfire I can say exists is the cremation in mans crematorium.

Hello kedge,

You say there is no proof of an afterlife and then you get rid of the very proof that you say doesn't exist, which is the event of the rich man and Lazarus by reducing it to being a parable. How convenient! So, what would you have to say about Moses and Elijah appearing with Jesus when He was changed into his glorified state and they spoke with him about his departure? Or, what do you make of the 5th seal where those souls under the altar in heaven who are asking the Lord how long before he avenges the those on the earth who killed them and are give white robes to wear. And what do you make of the following:

"Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place, and gave Him the name above all names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."


"And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?”But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. "

"Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power,

for ever and ever!”
​

Those under the earth would be referring to those in Sheol/Hades in that parable place that you were talking about. How about the following:

"Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise."

In the scripture above, this is what Jesus promised the man who was crucified next him. How could Jesus promise that they would be in paradise, when both men died that very day? You would have to be conscious and existing in order to experience paradise.

There are many more examples of conscious awareness of the spirit/soul after death. The question is, are you one of those who automatically distorts those scriptures because you have adopted someone else's teachings or are you concerned about what the scriptures really say?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Scripture, not Prophesy.

Just FYI Willie, prophecy is also scripture. All that is going to happen regarding end-time events are prophetic scriptures. Anything that is written in the word of God is scripture, which includes all prophecy.

 

[Ahwatukee]

And it gets even more complicated when you study the word "eternal", and learn that it sometimes just means a long period of time, and not always "forever and forever."

Willie, it's not complicated at all. You are correct regarding the word "eternal" translated from the Greek "Aion" or "Aionios," which can mean an age, a cycle of time or no beginning or end. It is the context that determines the meaning, which is not complicated.

 

[Ahwatukee]

So did Jesus lie or tell the truth? still waiting for an answer any takers?

Hey RobbyEarl,

You are correct! Jesus did tell the truth. The rich man and Lazarus was a real event. Parables are distinguished by symbolism representing the literal. The rich man and Lazarus uses real names and the real location of Hades. If it was a parable, then Moses, Lazarus, the rich man, Abraham and the location of Hades would have to be symbolism's representing something literal. In this case, it would be the literal representing the literal, which is not what a parable is. People reduce the rich man and Lazarus to a parable because, if it is literal event it destroys their position and they can't have that. And so they get rid of it by calling it a parable.

 

[Ahwatukee]

So when He died he went to heaven and He and God hucked it up for 3 days?

Hello Sirk,

Jesus said, "Just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so also shall the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and thee nights." When Jesus said this, he wasn't only speaking about his body being in the tomb, but his spirit, along with the man who was crucified with him, went to that place of paradise where Abraham and Lazarus were in that area across from Hades. We know that Jesus didn't go to heaven during those three days and that because of what he said to Mary after he resurrected:

"Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”). Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father.

Jesus body was in the tomb, but his spirit was in the heart of the earth, conscious and aware. Three days later, he returned to his body and resurrected in that immortal and glorified body.

 

[kaylagrl]

The typical "God bless you!" in angry forum posts has long been regarded as just a form of Christian Passive-Aggressive cursing. Especially with the exclamation points... sometimes they will put three or four ( !!! ) behind the shot.

​ And yet you said nothing about what I posted to Sirk and the reconciliation he mentioned. Im hearing crickets.You apologized for snarky comments once before. So .....waiting.

 

[kaylagrl]

Hello Sirk,

Jesus said, "Just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so also shall the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and thee nights." When Jesus said this, he wasn't only speaking about his body being in the tomb, but his spirit, along with the man who was crucified with him, went to that place of paradise where Abraham and Lazarus were in that area across from Hades. We know that Jesus didn't go to heaven during those three days and that because of what he said to Mary after he resurrected:

"Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”). Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father.

Jesus body was in the tomb, but his spirit was in the heart of the earth, conscious and aware. Three days later, he returned to his body and resurrected in that immortal and glorified body.

Brother your last few posts are dead on. I appreciate the level headed way that you share the truth of the Word. I haven't seen a post of yours I disagree with yet. Each one has been Biblically sound. Thank you for your input and your common sense attitude to these issues.

 

[Sirk]

Sirk, why is God "tyranical?" Did Jesus not say "fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in everlasting fire?" In that verse it tells us who we should fear and with what kind of fear. The mention of destroying both body and soul in everlasting fire is the reason given for fearing him. There is then no mistaking what kind of fear that the verse is talking about. Because of sin, God the Father didn't even hold back His wrath upon His own Son. So what kind of wrath and punishment do you think is coming to those who reject His Son whom He sacrificed for us? God is not a tyrant, but will merely be meeting out His divine justice.

I'm not saying that he is. Just illustrating how anyone who tules thru fear is.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Brother your last few posts are dead on. I appreciate the level headed way that you share the truth of the Word. I haven't seen a post of yours I disagree with yet. Each one has been Biblically sound. Thank you for your input and your common sense attitude to these issues.

Thank you for saying so. I'm just sharing what God has revealed. AS I am sure you would agree, the glory is God's, for it is His word and I am thankful for all that His Spirit reveals to me through the searching out of His word. I am also lifted up when I see that the same word resides in you and others, being in agreement. I hate that there is so much division and departure from the truth of God's word though. I realize that departure from some Biblical issues are eternal life threatening and others are not, but what fellowship there would be if everyone was on the same page.

In my prayers I have been asking God if there is any value to this? If He is glorified in it? If anyone is benefiting from these posts and debates? I believe that there may be more who are benefiting than we realize, for the word of God is going out and people that are in the background, on the internet highway, and are reading these posts that we put out here, reaching people who needed to see just one scripture that God uses to draw them to His Son.

I surely will continue to proclaim the truth of God's word on every Biblical topic and I know that you are zealous as well for the truth and accuracy of God's word, so you keep at it as well.