Hell. It is in the Bible isnt it?

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Feb 7, 2015
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​ And yet you said nothing about what I posted to Sirk and the reconciliation he mentioned. Im hearing crickets.You apologized for snarky comments once before. So .....waiting.
That's probably because it is my experience that you only get sideways from feeling hurt, and whatever shortness you exhibit usually seems to come from that. That is understandable, and a bit commendable.

You don't seem to have a spiteful heart that mainly just wants to be right. I cannot say that about Ms.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
I wonder why people reject death as valid punishment.
It is the promised outcome of sin from Genesis onward.
But there is something here that we overlook. With nothing good in us as fallen creatures and we can't please God. Would perfect Justice be satisfied by the death of a sinner? No. Apart From Christ there is NOTHING we can do to satisfy His perfect Justice......in life or death.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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You say ,Sirk, that you believe in Justice. But how can you really believe in Justice when you teach that God does not have the right to punish those who have rejected Him?

So my question is "how is God suppose to deal with those who reject Him?"

If you really believe God does not have the right to punish people who reject Him then God is not in control. What incentive then will cause people to follow Jesus if there is no punishment for not following Him?

What incentive is there for a 3 year old for not throwing a fit if there is no punishment for his actions?

Can you really believe in Justice and no punishment for wrong actions?

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You cannot say you believe in Justice and then turn around and condemn someone for applying Justice.
Sirk never spoke of not chastising and punishing.... He expressed disbelief that God is a father who tortures His children for all time.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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But there is something here that we overlook. With nothing good in us as fallen creatures and we can't please God. Would perfect Justice be satisfied by the death of a sinner? No. Apart From Christ there is NOTHING we can do to satisfy His perfect Justice......in life or death.
God's justice was fully satisfied by Jesus taking upon the sin of the world at the cross. He paid the price for sin once for all. That is the good news of the gospels! To be found in Him is to gain eternal life through His resurrection, when the corruptible puts on the incorruptible. All else perishes, just as Scripture says, for those not born again of the Spirit hath not life in them. The flesh counts for nothing.
 
Jan 9, 2016
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well if there is no hell there is no devil and then there can be no God to answer to as HE has said. So you can live the way you would like to without fear of judgement. This has been the oldest trick of the devil is " there is no hell". two there is no Devi".

if one takes away from what the bible clearly states that there is a place prepared Rev. and those who names are not found in the book of life go there.
In their love for committing sin, they have extreme contempt and malice towards God. I fear they are bad-willed forever.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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Yes, to God be the glory,He has used so many preachers and teachers in my life. They have helped me to look deeper and to have better understanding of the Word. As I stated before the Bible says we are to have the mind of Christ, and if we did we would be in one accord. As you said, the Spirit reveals the truth of the Word to us to share with those who are not yet saved. Its not about opinion,its about what the Word says. We have to be careful that we are not leading people astray from the truth.

I do hope,as you say, that there is benefit to these debates. But as I said to Kedge, the Bible is to be read for oneself. This is not the place to find clarity I'm afraid. I fear there are to many opinions here and not enough of the Word. IMO I wouldn't recommend this forum to new Christians. But I do hope there is some good that comes of these debates.
The confusion that the new Christians are seeing saddens me also, but the fact is that they are here. The world is seeing all of it, so we must keep on, as the old spiritual says, "workin' the road". Godspeed.
 
Jan 9, 2016
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Sirk never spoke of not chastising and punishing.... He expressed disbelief that God is a father who tortures His children for all time.
Do you believe God is unjust for allowing people to choose Hell? Do you believe a person would choose Hell while at the same time not wanting to go to Hell? :confused:
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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In their love for committing sin, they have extreme contempt and malice towards God. I fear they are bad-willed forever.
well maybe :)

that is the great thing about Hell :) none has to go there :) the gospel message is not hell it's our Lord jesus christ who gave Himself so we do not have to go :)
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Sirk never spoke of not chastising and punishing.... He expressed disbelief that God is a father who tortures His children for all time.
Hi Willie-T,

Remember, not everyone is a child of God. People are not just children of God because they are human beings. For example, the religious leaders were referring to God the Father as their God, but Jesus told them that their father was the devil. Anyone who is not in Christ is not a child of God. So yes, God will punish them.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Hell is the grave, and everyone goes there :) As Christians who speak
on these things, we really ought to get our terminology correct, so that
others are not so confused about what Scripture plainly states.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Hi Willie-T,

Remember, not everyone is a child of God. People are not just children of God because they are human beings. For example, the religious leaders were referring to God the Father as their God, but Jesus told them that their father was the devil. Anyone who is not in Christ is not a child of God. So yes, God will punish them.
John 1:12
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
In their love for committing sin, they have extreme contempt and malice towards God. I fear they are bad-willed forever.
99% of the folks that are just outright sinning and living the "hard" life.......end up hitting the brick wall and get saved.

I would change your statement to this.....

In their love of their own self righteousness and human good, they have extreme contempt towards God and His free grace. I fear that they are proud and arrogant forever.

Not many who are proud,arrogant and self righteous come to Christ.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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I dont know brother. But Willie is keeping tabs pretty hard on Ms Susanna as not having a Christlike spirit. You cant admonish someone when you are doing the same thing yourself. But no big deal,Im getting use to the snarky responses here on CC. It didn't use to be this way. I guess this is the new normal.
I believe the turbulence is helping both of us grow stronger and wiser. I just hope that it is not destroying some of the others. We must make this our prayer.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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But there is something here that we overlook. With nothing good in us as fallen creatures and we can't please God. Would perfect Justice be satisfied by the death of a sinner? No. Apart From Christ there is NOTHING we can do to satisfy His perfect Justice......in life or death.
Actually His perfect justice would have been satisfied by physical death. 'If you eat of it you will die'. As far as Adam knew, and those who followed him for centuries, that meant physical death,
 
Mar 2, 2016
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I believe the turbulence is helping both of us grow stronger and wiser. I just hope that it is not destroying some of the others. We must make this our prayer.
Conflict is good when it is approached with humility. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit.......

conflict can be good and the whole of scripture proves that God uses it time and again for His glory.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Conflict is good when it is approached with humility. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit.......

conflict can be good and the whole of scripture proves that God uses it time and again for His glory.
Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. :)
 
Feb 7, 2015
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Ahh haa, you feel the same about her as I am feeling about Willie right now. Perhaps we should pray for each other? Maybe you need to send her a PM? Maybe you could solve the issue and misunderstanding between you. Its not good that we are tearing into each other this way. If we are one body we sure arent acting like it.
For me, this whole thing is deeply rooted in what I see as very vile and hateful behavior toward those two employees she bragged about dressing down at that store.

And now, she wants to say nothing more about it..... except "I am right!"

She makes big noises about how none of the rest of us are the breve Christian she thinks (knows) she is.... always telling people they are Hell-bound. She even calls all the rest of us "cowards" because we show Jesus' love to nonbelievers, instead of belittling and humiliating them.

And, in all this bragging, she did not utter one single word about God or truth, or anything to those two totally innocent guys in the store. She just wanted to make a cute statement out loud, then smugly laugh at them to herself as she waltzed out the door while threatening them with "exposure" in an "editorial" about their workplace.

And what was her reply to being called out for doing all this? Just the usual, "I am right." As though she somehow has the God-given right to go into stores belittling strangers who didn't even know they were being targeted by her and only offered to help when she set them up with.... "Can you help me?"

She seems nothing but a vindictive bully with a chip on her shoulder, using God as an excuse to deliberately hurt people.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
For me, this whole thing is deeply rooted in what I see as very vile and hateful behavior toward those two employees she bragged about dressing down at that store.

And now, she wants to say nothing more about it..... except "I am right!"

She makes big noises about how none of the rest of us are the breve Christian she thinks (knows) she is.... always telling people they are Hell-bound. She even calls all the rest of us "cowards" because we show Jesus' love to nonbelievers, instead of belittling and humiliating them.

And, in all this bragging, she did not utter one single word about God or truth, or anything to those two totally innocent guys in the store. She just wanted to make a cute statement out loud, then smugly laugh at them to herself as she waltzed out the door while threatening them with "exposure" in an "editorial" about their workplace.

And what was her reply to being called out for doing all this? Just the usual, "I am right." As though she somehow has the God-given right to go into stores belittling strangers who didn't even know they were being targeted by her and only offered to help when she set them up with.... "Can you help me?"

She seems nothing but a vindictive bully with a chip on her shoulder, using God as an excuse to deliberately hurt people.
Well all I can say is you have a right to your opinion. Some people come off as one way until you get to know them. I have no dog in this fight. But I dont want you to take your anger out on me because of someone else,that is unfair. And I felt very much like that is what you have been doing in this thread.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
Actually His perfect justice would have been satisfied by physical death. 'If you eat of it you will die'. As far as Adam knew, and those who followed him for centuries, that meant physical death,
Then everybody is saved? A sinners death satisfies His perfect Justice? Adam was saved the moment he died, because Adams death satisfied Gods Justice?

The resurrection of the righteous and the wicked. The wicked are saved because Gods justice was satisfied in their physical death?
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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I'm pretty cautious about PM's. In my experience, a man can come across as threatening to a woman with those kinds of things.
Amen. PM can be dangerous unless you are very close friends with the other person.