Hell. It is in the Bible isnt it?
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K
I speak for myself. I made it clear to Willie that he is not to fire on me because he has a disagreement with you or anyone else for that matter. I wasn't trying to take sides. I was trying to say that this is a new person to CC and do not gang up on them. I state what the Bible says and if you and I agree then great. I dont change my opinion according to "sides". This isn't high school,though its looking a lot like it. You and Willie and Sirk must find peace or leave one another alone. But its not and us against them, that was the point I was making with Willie. In this thread you and I agree. I did feel you were being ganged up on and I said so. But dont worry,no one will be firing at me. I can handle anything thrown at me.
Originally Posted by valiant
they will weep and gnash their teeth at the judgement
Luk 12:47
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and made not ready, nor did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes;
Luk 12:48
but he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. And to whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom they commit much, of him will they ask the more.
doesn't read like eternal torment to me - few stripes?
See how "Little Ms Innocent" tried to slide that around? I told you I was sorry if you got in the crossfire. My posts have been all at her because I do not believe she is what she claims she is. If you jumped in and said she was right, please don't think that because I still consider her wrong, and said so, that I was calling you the same stripe as her.... just that if you agreed with certain thinking she expressed, I STILL felt that thinking was wrong.
Crossfire is just that... shots aimed at someone beyond you, not at you. Rise up and try to deflect those shots, and of course you are going to feel some of them. I'm serious when I say I am sorry if you get in the way, but it will not change my opinion of her just because you try to shield her.
Crossfire is just that... shots aimed at someone beyond you, not at you. Rise up and try to deflect those shots, and of course you are going to feel some of them. I'm serious when I say I am sorry if you get in the way, but it will not change my opinion of her just because you try to shield her.
Brother Valiant,
2 Cor 4:18, "but the things which are not seen are eternal."
Can we "see" the human soul?
Can we see God?
Can we see the Holy Spirit within us? (but we see the effects of the spirit ,wind, Jn 3:8),
When we die physically, does the Holy Spirit within us die (separate us from the presence of God) or do we have life through Him, (remain in His presence through the power of the Holy Spirit)? (this is our hope, our faith in love)
Our souls will be in His presence, by the power of His blood and the covenant, and His Spirit within us.
We don't lose "consciousness", but are freed from our physical bodies.
2 Cor 4:18, "but the things which are not seen are eternal."
Can we "see" the human soul?
Can we see God?
Can we see the Holy Spirit within us? (but we see the effects of the spirit ,wind, Jn 3:8),
When we die physically, does the Holy Spirit within us die (separate us from the presence of God) or do we have life through Him, (remain in His presence through the power of the Holy Spirit)? (this is our hope, our faith in love)
Our souls will be in His presence, by the power of His blood and the covenant, and His Spirit within us.
We don't lose "consciousness", but are freed from our physical bodies.
you must learn to differentiate between what Scripture is saying, and what you think it is saying 
Can you for example give us one Scripture which speaks clearly of eternal torment?
Can you for example give us one Scripture which speaks clearly of eternal torment?
(Mark 9:43 [KJV])
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
(Mark 9:44 [KJV])
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
(Mark 9:45 [KJV])
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
(Mark 9:46 [KJV])
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
(Mark 9:47 [KJV])
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
(Mark 9:48 [KJV])
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Man became a living soul when the breath of God was breathed into the earthly elements made to form the physical man. To say the soul is immortal is to assume something that Scripture never states, hints at, or even vaguely implies. In contrast, it is stated a multitude of times in many different ways that the soul that sins shall die.
Brother Valiant,
God is love.....Satan is no love
'
God is always blessing with love.....Satan is always "actively'' trying to destroy love, (in the hearts of men)
This power of "no love", should never be thought of as "passive", it is powerful and aggressive. (lion, wild animal)
God's protection holds it back.
When God's blessing is removed, evil "floods" in (Noah).
God is love.....Satan is no love
'
God is always blessing with love.....Satan is always "actively'' trying to destroy love, (in the hearts of men)
This power of "no love", should never be thought of as "passive", it is powerful and aggressive. (lion, wild animal)
God's protection holds it back.
When God's blessing is removed, evil "floods" in (Noah).
I have not seen anyone here attempt to counter any of the many Scriptures
I gave that plainly state my position. Do these mess up your position?
Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Here, the Greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which means to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish, make void.
Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those in the days of Noah (Luke 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all" (not tortured). And it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29) "destroyed them" (not tortured).
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
So a person either receives eternal life, or they perish. Nothing about eternal torment there.
John 5:24, Jesus said
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Note: Death, not eternal torment.
1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
Destroy, not torture or torment alive forever.
Galations 6:8
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption (phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish.
The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Destruction, not eternal living torment. The greek word is olethron: destruction.
From a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruination, i.e. Death, punishment -- destruction.
Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
James 1:15b
and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.
James 4:12a
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy;
2 Peter 3:7
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
All ungodly men will perish unless they repent.
1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
If you are not alive you cannot be tormented!
Jude 5
Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.
Revelation 2:11b
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
The living and the dead will be judged on the last day. Those in Christ will not experience the second death, being rewarded with life. Those not in Christ will experience a second death. This second death is their final and utter destruction.
Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.
Revelation 20:14-15
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
John interprets this for us: the lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name is not in the book of life, he experiences the second death. This is exactly what it says, death.
Revelation 21:8
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
They will undergo the second death, which means they are dead.
After the first sin, what was the promised consequence? God said that it was death. God didn't tell them that they would be given eternal life being tormented in hell. If eternal torture in hell is the consequence, it is jarringly missing from any statement by God to Adam and Eve. God even barred Adam and Eve from the garden to prevent them eating from the tree of life and living forever in their state of sin. Paul explains this: Romans 6:23, The wages of sin is death. This is obvious, Paul said what the wages of sin is and it is not to be burned alive forever after you are resurrected.
Ezekiel 18:4
The soul who sins will die.
Psalm 1:4-6
Not so the wicked!
They are like chaff
that the wind blows away.
Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.
Psalm 9:5
You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked;
you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.
Psalm 9:6
even the memory of them has perished.
Psalm 34:16
but the face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
to blot out their name from the earth.
Psalm 37:9
For those who are evil will be destroyed,
Psalm 37:20
But the wicked will perish:
Psalm 37:22
those he curses will be destroyed
Psalm 37:28b
Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed
Psalm 37:34
when the wicked are destroyed, you will see it.
Psalm 37:38
But all sinners will be destroyed;
there will be no future for the wicked.
Ecclesiastes 9:5
the dead know nothing
Why do people not believe what is plainly written in Scripture?
Instead they make up doctrines of demons based on things never stated.
Nobody addressed my post on hell, either.
(1) The Hebrew word Sheol clearly means "the grave" not "hell." Everyone went to Sheol when they died, not just the wicked. Sheol was not a place of suffering, because in Job 14:13, a much-beset Job asked to go to Sheol to escape suffering. Sheol was not a place where God was absent, because King David said in Psalm 139:8 that when he made his bed in Sheol (i.e., when he died and was laid in his grave), God would be with him. And Sheol was not an eternal inescapable prison, because in Psalm 49:15 the Sons of Korah said that God would redeem them from Sheol, by which they meant that they would be resurrected from the grave to new life. Furthermore, the prophet Ezekiel and the apostle Paul agreed that all Israel would be saved, and yet in Genesis 37:35, Israel himself said that he would be reunited with his son Joseph in Sheol. How can all Israel be saved if Israel himself is in "hell"? In each case Sheol clearly means "the grave" or "the abode of all the dead, good and bad" and cannot be interpreted as "hell" unless "hell" is heaven!
(2) The Greek word Hades also clearly means "the grave" not "hell." Everyone went to Hades when they died, not just the wicked. Hades contained heavenly regions like the Elysian Fields and the Blessed Isles. The Greek hell was Tartarus, which is discussed below, in section 4.
(3) The place name Gehenna does not mean "hell" because Gehenna is a valley in Israel known in Hebrew as Gehinnom, or the Valley of Hinnom. Today Gehenna is a lovely park and tourist attraction. Wonderful archeological discoveries have been made there, such as the healing pool of Siloam and the oldest Bible verses ever discovered, inscribed on small silver amulets. Those verses are the benediction "The LORD bless thee and keep thee; the LORD make his countenance to shine upon thee and be gracious unto thee." Those are wonderfully comforting words to have been discovered in "hell," don't you think?
(4) The Greek hell was Tartarus. This is the only word in the Bible that actually means "hell" in either Greek or Hebrew. But the word Tartarus appears only one time in the entire Bible, in 2 Peter 2:4. And that verse is about fallen angels awaiting judgment, so its hell is not eternal and is not for human beings.
How many times is hell mentioned in the Bible?
I gave that plainly state my position. Do these mess up your position?
Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Here, the Greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which means to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish, make void.
Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those in the days of Noah (Luke 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all" (not tortured). And it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29) "destroyed them" (not tortured).
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
So a person either receives eternal life, or they perish. Nothing about eternal torment there.
John 5:24, Jesus said
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Note: Death, not eternal torment.
1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
Destroy, not torture or torment alive forever.
Galations 6:8
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption (phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish.
The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Destruction, not eternal living torment. The greek word is olethron: destruction.
From a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruination, i.e. Death, punishment -- destruction.
Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
James 1:15b
and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.
James 4:12a
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy;
2 Peter 3:7
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
All ungodly men will perish unless they repent.
1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
If you are not alive you cannot be tormented!
Jude 5
Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.
Revelation 2:11b
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
The living and the dead will be judged on the last day. Those in Christ will not experience the second death, being rewarded with life. Those not in Christ will experience a second death. This second death is their final and utter destruction.
Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.
Revelation 20:14-15
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
John interprets this for us: the lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name is not in the book of life, he experiences the second death. This is exactly what it says, death.
Revelation 21:8
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
They will undergo the second death, which means they are dead.
After the first sin, what was the promised consequence? God said that it was death. God didn't tell them that they would be given eternal life being tormented in hell. If eternal torture in hell is the consequence, it is jarringly missing from any statement by God to Adam and Eve. God even barred Adam and Eve from the garden to prevent them eating from the tree of life and living forever in their state of sin. Paul explains this: Romans 6:23, The wages of sin is death. This is obvious, Paul said what the wages of sin is and it is not to be burned alive forever after you are resurrected.
Ezekiel 18:4
The soul who sins will die.
Psalm 1:4-6
Not so the wicked!
They are like chaff
that the wind blows away.
Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.
Psalm 9:5
You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked;
you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.
Psalm 9:6
even the memory of them has perished.
Psalm 34:16
but the face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
to blot out their name from the earth.
Psalm 37:9
For those who are evil will be destroyed,
Psalm 37:20
But the wicked will perish:
Psalm 37:22
those he curses will be destroyed
Psalm 37:28b
Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed
Psalm 37:34
when the wicked are destroyed, you will see it.
Psalm 37:38
But all sinners will be destroyed;
there will be no future for the wicked.
Ecclesiastes 9:5
the dead know nothing
Why do people not believe what is plainly written in Scripture?
Instead they make up doctrines of demons based on things never stated.
Nobody addressed my post on hell, either.
(1) The Hebrew word Sheol clearly means "the grave" not "hell." Everyone went to Sheol when they died, not just the wicked. Sheol was not a place of suffering, because in Job 14:13, a much-beset Job asked to go to Sheol to escape suffering. Sheol was not a place where God was absent, because King David said in Psalm 139:8 that when he made his bed in Sheol (i.e., when he died and was laid in his grave), God would be with him. And Sheol was not an eternal inescapable prison, because in Psalm 49:15 the Sons of Korah said that God would redeem them from Sheol, by which they meant that they would be resurrected from the grave to new life. Furthermore, the prophet Ezekiel and the apostle Paul agreed that all Israel would be saved, and yet in Genesis 37:35, Israel himself said that he would be reunited with his son Joseph in Sheol. How can all Israel be saved if Israel himself is in "hell"? In each case Sheol clearly means "the grave" or "the abode of all the dead, good and bad" and cannot be interpreted as "hell" unless "hell" is heaven!
(2) The Greek word Hades also clearly means "the grave" not "hell." Everyone went to Hades when they died, not just the wicked. Hades contained heavenly regions like the Elysian Fields and the Blessed Isles. The Greek hell was Tartarus, which is discussed below, in section 4.
(3) The place name Gehenna does not mean "hell" because Gehenna is a valley in Israel known in Hebrew as Gehinnom, or the Valley of Hinnom. Today Gehenna is a lovely park and tourist attraction. Wonderful archeological discoveries have been made there, such as the healing pool of Siloam and the oldest Bible verses ever discovered, inscribed on small silver amulets. Those verses are the benediction "The LORD bless thee and keep thee; the LORD make his countenance to shine upon thee and be gracious unto thee." Those are wonderfully comforting words to have been discovered in "hell," don't you think?
(4) The Greek hell was Tartarus. This is the only word in the Bible that actually means "hell" in either Greek or Hebrew. But the word Tartarus appears only one time in the entire Bible, in 2 Peter 2:4. And that verse is about fallen angels awaiting judgment, so its hell is not eternal and is not for human beings.
How many times is hell mentioned in the Bible?
This idea is taken from Isaiah 66.24 where it clearly refers to DEAD bodies. The maggots and fires are not quenched because they continue day and night. But they act on DEAD bodies.
Won't do lol. Jesus was speaking of the instruments of punishment as never ending, not the people themselves.
TRY AGAIN and be a bit more careful this time
Won't do lol. Jesus was speaking of the instruments of punishment as never ending, not the people themselves.
TRY AGAIN and be a bit more careful this time