Can a christian lose their salvation

[JohnOne]

Hello Ahwatukee GOOD TO SEE YOU !!

I thought you might like to know if you didn't already that the greek word for death is thanatos pronounced than'-at-os
From G2348; (properly an adjective used as a noun) death (literally or figuratively): - X deadly, (be . . .) death.

That can only be taken figuratively which would be spiritual in James 5:19-20 as the soul can only spiritually die. God's word is so detailed and accurate it refutes them before and after they speak.

Anyways thought I might be of some help. Again good to see you.

 

[Grace777x70]

yeah, I love it when someone shows up on here, pounds works Salvationism , then gets ticked off, puts people on ignore because someone disagrees with them, not the Bible but with them. would be funny if it were not sad.

It is unfortunate as we can all learn from each other.

It boils down to this. Some believe they can lose salvation and others don't. To me a lot of this confusion could be cleared up in the definition of terms and what exactly is salvation in this earth from living by the spirit within and experiencing good lives on this earth and what is salvation for being with the Lord because of His finished work on the cross. Mixing these two understandings can mis-lead us in interpreting the scriptures.

 

[mailmandan]

Hello Ahwatukee GOOD TO SEE YOU !!

I thought you might like to know if you didn't already that the greek word for death is thanatos pronounced than'-at-os
From G2348; (properly an adjective used as a noun) death (literally or figuratively): - X deadly, (be . . .) death.

That can only be taken figuratively which would be spiritual in James 5:19-20 as the soul can only spiritually die. God's word is so detailed and accurate it refutes them before and after they speak.

Anyways thought I might be of some help. Again good to see you.

In Matthew 26:38, Jesus said, "My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death." Jesus was not saying that His soul was deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death in hell, rather, Jesus was talking about his human life. Thanatos can mean physical or spiritual death, depending on the context.

2288 thánatos (derived from 2348 /thnḗskō, "to die") – physical or spiritual death.

 

[gb9]

It is unfortunate as we can all learn from each other.

It boils down to this. Some believe they can lose salvation and others don't. To me a lot of this confusion could be cleared up in the definition of terms and what exactly is salvation in this earth from living by the spirit within and experiencing good lives on this earth and what is salvation for being with the Lord because of His finished work on the cross. Mixing these two understandings can mis-lead us in interpreting the scriptures.

and this is why it is so important to rightly divide the Words of truth. just plucking out verses and sticking them to make one's own personal theology is so dangerous. one can really get things confused.

sadly, this is what most Christians do. it is really important to read the Bible all the way through multiple times to get this right.

 

[John146]

It is unfortunate as we can all learn from each other.

It boils down to this. Some believe they can lose salvation and others don't. To me a lot of this confusion could be cleared up in the definition of terms and what exactly is salvation in this earth from living by the spirit within and experiencing good lives on this earth and what is salvation for being with the Lord because of His finished work on the cross. Mixing these two understandings can mis-lead us in interpreting the scriptures.

When one doesn't make the right divisions in Scripture, it can really mess you up doctrinally including eternal security, works for salvation, pre-trib, post-trib, Kingdom of Heaven, Kingdom of God, baptism, etc...

God has used spokesmen throughout history to progressively reveal His truth to man, not all at once. God has given man exactly what man needed at that time in history. The dangers come from not following the right spokesman for the current dispensation we live. The Apostle Paul is the spokesman for the Church Age, the body of Christ. Filter everything through what the Lord revealed to Paul. If it seems to contradict, don't panic or try to reason away the Scriptures, just know that portion of Scripture was written to a different audience either before the Church Age or a time period following the Church Age.

 

[Grace777x70]

and this is why it is so important to rightly divide the Words of truth. just plucking out verses and sticking them to make one's own personal theology is so dangerous. one can really get things confused.

I agree...I will give an example.

Let's say that I believe that anyone who has fear is sinning and they will not be in heaven because of fear.

Here's my scripture to "validate" my beliefs.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

Ezekiel 18:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] "Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.

Revelation 21:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
I have used the "word of God" to prove my belief above and we see how foolish this is when we do not factor in the finished work of Christ of the gospel of His salvation and what He has done for us.


I could accuse those that do not believe the "word of God" ( as I have shown in the above scriptures those that fear are sinning and thus not going to heaven ) as being fallen from the faith.

All scripture is truly stated but not all scripture is a statement of truth.

There is a higher truth which is always Christ and what He has already done.

 

[PeterJens]

Let's say that I believe that anyone who has fear is sinning and they will not be in heaven because of fear.

This language is strange. People cannot loose their salvation which is obtained by putting their faith in Christ, but people who do not believe in the right way are not really saved.

The problem with this kind of language, it is just another version of, believe like me and you know Christ, else you are a demon.

Scripture just tells us if we believe we will be saved. Obeying Christ is His walk. Are we in a place to say or judge who are His and who are not?

Seeing phrases like many Christians do not know how to rightly understand scripture sounds like a judgemental exaguration.
As this particular group of believers have called me not understanding Christ or walking in the Spirit, my summary of their position is 100% correct.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This language is strange. People cannot loose their salvation which is obtained by putting their faith in Christ, but people who do not believe in the right way are not really saved.

The problem with this kind of language, it is just another version of, believe like me and you know Christ, else you are a demon.

Scripture just tells us if we believe we will be saved. Obeying Christ is His walk. Are we in a place to say or judge who are His and who are not?

Seeing phrases like many Christians do not know how to rightly understand scripture sounds like a judgemental exaguration.
As this particular group of believers have called me not understanding Christ or walking in the Spirit, my summary of their position is 100% correct.

That's exactly it right there. You have well categorized the issue. AS long as someone believes correctly (knowing the right way to believe), one can never be lost. But if one doesn't believe the right way, he was never saved. This is called "faith alone in Christ", which really means believing that people are not able to do any good work, and Christ does his works through them. As long as people believe this way, they are saved.

This is a non-scriptural invention of what the faith of Christ is, that is based on Martin Luther's thesis 14 in his Heidelberg Disputation. He admits therein that he got this idea from Augustine, who, of course, was a former follower of the gnostics who believed in total inability/depravity.

Free will, after the fall, has power to do good only in a passive capacity, but it can always do evil in an active capacity.​

 

[gb9]

That's exactly it right there. You have well categorized the issue. AS long as someone believes correctly (knowing the right way to believe), one can never be lost. But if one doesn't believe the right way, he was never saved. This is called "faith alone in Christ", which really means believing that people are not able to do any good work, and Christ does his works through them. As long as people believe this way, they are saved.

This is a non-scriptural invention of what the faith of Christ is, that is based on Martin Luther's thesis 14 in his Heidelberg Disputation. He admits therein that he got this idea from Augustine, who, of course, was a former follower of the gnostics who believed in total inability/depravity.

Free will, after the fall, has power to do good only in a passive capacity, but it can always do evil in an active capacity.​

believing people aren't able to any good work???? what ????? what??? where in the world do you get this from??? no one can be saved and not do good works, strive to not sin, etc...

dude, for real, un-mix yourself. your obsession with gnostics is blinding you to simple Biblical truths.

 

[ggs7]

Hi GGS7,

Regarding not being able to lose your salvation, what do you think about the following scripture:

"My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

Also, why would we have so many warnings throughout scripture about the consequences of living according to the sinful nature? Our salvation is dependent on continuing from faith to faith. If a believer stops having faith and goes goes back to living according to the sinful nature, see the scripture above.

"Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. "


I admit I don't have all the answers, that is why I joined Christian Chat...to learn from other believers and to hear others opinions.
Some interesting verses to add to your reply are
Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel
Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.(Free will/choice?)
Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering

All I know is GOD wants none to perish (Timothy/Peter) and is extremely forgiving and merciful , thats from personal experience and from the Bible.

For instance in Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

I honestly think that salvation has a lot to do with whether we repent of our sin, then we can call Jesus Lord.

1John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

But like I said I'm still learning.
I'm actually waiting for these verses to come to pass...

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

 

[notuptome]

Does God ever stop loving us?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, Paul said even he can be disqualified for the prize (heaven) if he doesn't run in such a way to win the race.

Heaven is a gift, Not a reward.

Not one person who ever lived can earn the right to walk in heaven, Except for Christ himself

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Titus 3:10

titus 3: 5

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This person is on ignore. I guess he equates damnation with salvation. I am not sure what to say the words and their definitions and the context is quite clear.

2 John 1:10-11 KJV If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

I shared the truth time for some rest.

wow, and your new here?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Our salvation is not based on works. Its about believe and unbelief. Belief = salvation, unbelief = damnation. Quite simple really. Sin leads to spiritual death. God decides and we have His word to follow. You judged based on bible verses I posted which is what God said. I followed God's instructions according to Titus 3:10 and 2 John 1:10-11 What is interesting is you not knowing the whole truth, you spoke. I believe thats in the bible too. You should read Psalms and Proverbs.

Speaking of Psalms. Here is an interesting Psalm.

Psalms 51:1 KJV To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba. ( committed adultery ) Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.


Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Apparently David knew he could lose the Holy Spirit for his sin. Interesting how there are so many verses that share this truth. I could share many many more but only a few are needed. God's word.

Rom_3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

so what your saying Someone can trust, and be fully persuaded (the defenition of true faith) in Christ for salvation, and be saved.

then, lose that faith completely (remember, faith of a mustard seed) to the point he lost salvation.

more importanlty. God, (who is omniscient and knows all things that has been, is and will be for all eternity, saved that person knowing his faith would (if it could) fade away and he would have to take his "gift" back?

sorry,I am not buying it.

oh, and ps.. The seal of the HS was not given in the OT, it was not given until Christ fulfilled the law So the HS could enter and leave people in the old Unlike the new

So david was not saying do not take your salvation from me, He had a special bond wiht God, and unlike MANY had the hs, The risk of the HS leaving anyone in the OT was great, if they even had it.

 

[JohnOne]

so what your saying Someone can trust, and be fully persuaded (the defenition of true faith) in Christ for salvation, and be saved.

then, lose that faith completely (remember, faith of a mustard seed) to the point he lost salvation.

more importanlty. God, (who is omniscient and knows all things that has been, is and will be for all eternity, saved that person knowing his faith would (if it could) fade away and he would have to take his "gift" back?

sorry,I am not buying it.

oh, and ps.. The seal of the HS was not given in the OT, it was not given until Christ fulfilled the law So the HS could enter and leave people in the old Unlike the new

So david was not saying do not take your salvation from me, He had a special bond wiht God, and unlike MANY had the hs, The risk of the HS leaving anyone in the OT was great, if they even had it.

I love how people make this stuff up as they go or does anybody consult a bible at all.

I didn't say it God ( THE HOLY SPIRIT ) DID
1 Timothy 4:1 KJV Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Malachi 3:6 KJV For I am the LORD, I change not...................

Ezekiel 18:20 KJV The soul that sinneth, it shall die................

Malachi 3:6 KJV For I am the LORD, I change not...................

Romans 8:13 KJV For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Malachi 3:6 KJV For I am the LORD, I change not...................

Romans 6:23 KJV For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Malachi 3:6 KJV For I am the LORD, I change not...................

Ephesians 5:5-6 KJV For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

 

[Grace777x70]

Ephesians 5:5:

On the surface, this verse may look contrary to the grace that Paul taught in other places, but that’s not so. For one thing, there is a difference between a person who commits an act of whoredom and a whoremonger.

The children of disobedience are unbelievers in the faith of Christ for salvation. Verse 6

The word “whoremonger” (the same with “unclean” and “covetous”) is describing the character or nature of a person. The American Heritage Dictionary defines “character” as “the combination of qualities or features that distinguishes one person, group, or thing from another...moral or ethical strength.” Paul was saying that those who are by nature whoremongers, unclean, and covetous do not have any inheritance in the kingdom of God.

Christians can and sometimes do commit sexual sins and operate in covetousness, but it’s not their nature. In a parallel passage of Scripture from 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul listed the same sins but went on to say, “And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”

He expressed this same thought in Ephesians 5:8 by saying, “For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord.” Christians do not lose their righteous position in Christ and become whoremongers even though they may have sexual relations with whores. Sin doesn’t make Christians sinners any more than good acts make sinners saints (see note 1 at Romans 6:20).

That is not to say that it is therefore unimportant to live holy. That is the false teaching Paul was countering here (see note 9 at Ephesians 5:4).

It is important to be holy but not so that we can be accepted with God. God accepts us based on our faith in Christ. However, a lack of holiness is a bad witness and a direct inroad of Satan into our lives (see note 7 at Romans 6:15 and note 8 at Romans 6:16). Satan will make sure that we do not prosper if we yield to him.

So, Paul was stating the characteristics of unbelievers here and admonishing the Christians not to act like them. The very fact that Paul instructed the believers not to partake of these sins shows that Christians can partake (see note 13 at Ephesians 5:7).

Andrew Wommack's Living Commentary.

 

[JohnOne]

For those who say James 5:19-20 is speaking of physical death and not spiritual. Jesus words.

John 11:25-26 KJV Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Jesus is speaking to people who are physically alive.

To those who liveth and believeth shall never die, ( obviously spiritual death as Jesus made it clear). Of course if you been hanging around hollywood watching vampire and zombie movies your eisegsis ( inputting ones own ideas into the text ) would align with what your saying and not what God says.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I love how people make this stuff up as they go or does anybody consult a bible at all.

I didn't say it God ( THE HOLY SPIRIT ) DID
1 Timothy 4:1 KJV Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Malachi 3:6 KJV For I am the LORD, I change not...................

Ezekiel 18:20 KJV The soul that sinneth, it shall die................

Malachi 3:6 KJV For I am the LORD, I change not...................

Romans 8:13 KJV For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Malachi 3:6 KJV For I am the LORD, I change not...................

Romans 6:23 KJV For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Malachi 3:6 KJV For I am the LORD, I change not...................

Ephesians 5:5-6 KJV For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Non of those passages say anyone can lose salvation.


And you did not answer my question, Would you like to try again?

And please. Leave your sarcastic attitude at the door.. Yoour not soundling very christlike. In fact, you make me wonder if you have been here before.. what was your nic if you were?

 

[JohnOne]

Non of those passages say anyone can lose salvation.


And you did not answer my question, Would you like to try again?

And please. Leave your sarcastic attitude at the door.. Yoour not soundling very christlike. In fact, you make me wonder if you have been here before.. what was your nic if you were?

God is not taking his gift back , they are departing from it and casting it off.

You can't leave a building you were never in, you can't depart from a bus you were never on.


1 Timothy 4:1 KJV Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

by grace are ye saved THROUGH FAITH, without faith there is no grace.


1 Timothy 5:11-12 KJV But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; 12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

They cast off their first faith and as a result have damnation ( the opposite of which is salvation )

They cast off their first FAITH. They had faith and cast it off.