The scriptures that you have gladly quoted were not even written at that time for the Indians, Chinese and Africans to refer to them and enlighten themselves. Very interesting how you are expecting a bunch of Indians back in the day, like within the pre-Christ era in their utter ignorance of Jehovah/Christ they somehow figure out automatically that they are from CAIN? How ? Can you please enlighten me? Did they have history libraries back then, like how we have it today?
Hell. It is in the Bible isnt it?
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No you didn't answer my question. While God was walking with the Israelites and with the prophets in O.T at that time, was the same thing being done in India, China and Africa and other nations all around the world? The answer is NO. You just don't want to admit to the truth.
Why dont you start a thread where this can be discussed on the whole.
I suggested this to you back on #985.
Go make your own thread!
You know organic, you keep using an expression that I have heard from NO ONE ELSE, that actually is not biblical. That expression is pre-Christ era, and there IS NO SUCH THING:
John 8:58 (NKJV)
[SUP]58 [/SUP] Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
Colossians 1:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
John 17:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with that glory I had with Youbefore the world existed.
Isaiah 43:10 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
Isaiah 43:11 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.
Luke 2:11 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Today a Savior, who is Messiah the Lord, was born for you in the city of David.
John 14:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, “Have I been among you all this time without your knowing Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
1. NOW, GIVE US A STRAIGHT ANSWER, "Do you believe Jesus is Yahweh?
How about we let the Cat out of the bag, and shoot straight with each other.
2. WHAT DENOMINATION DO YOU CALL HOME?
3. CAN YOU PLEASE POST A DOCTRINAL STATEMENT OF FAITH THAT YOU AGREE WITH?
4. WHO ARE THE BIBLE TEACHERS THAT HAD THE MOST INFLUENCE ON WHAT YOU BELIEVE TODAY?
><>t<><
HERE ARE MY ANSWERS TO MY ANSWERS TO THOSE SAME QUESTIONS:
1. Yes I absolutely BELIEVE that THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT are the ONE AND ONLY GOD WHO EXISTS, WHO IS KNOWN AS YAHWEH.
2. Since I was born again the last week of December 1977, most of the Churches that I have attended (we moved a lot) have been non-denomination Community Bible Churches. If I was to classify myself, I would have to say I am a very conservative Evangelical type of Christian.
3. The teaching radio program that I first started listening to after I was born again was "Grace to You", by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. He is also Senior Pastor at Grace Community Church and President of the Master's College and Seminary in L.A. Here is a link to the Doctrinal Statement of Faith from "Grace To You", which I agree with mostly, except they failed to pick up on the fact that the word Church, was actually the ASSEMBLY in the Greek Language, and therefore began with Adam, and continues to be built by our Messiah to the last person Martyred in the Great Tribulation:
http://www.gty.org/connect/doctrine
I also have a great deal in common with this Messianic Congregation's Statement of Faith:
Statement of Faith - Messianic Jewish Online
4. These are the Theologians who have had the most influence on my spiritual growth:
Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. - Grace to You sermons dating back to the early 70s - free to listen to.
Dr. Adrian Rogers - Listen to Adrian Rogers - Love Worth Finding Radio Online
Dr. Charles Stanley - http://www.intouch.org/
Dr. Richard Lee - First Redeemer Church | Duluth | Cumming | Alpharetta
Dr. Zola Levitt - ZLM Video: “Passover/Unleavened Bread” - some free - videos
Dr. Ed Young - http://www.winningwalk.org/t-bio.aspx
Dr. Gil Rugh - http://www.ihcc.org/ - free sermons dating back to the late 70s - free
Dr. Chuck Swindoll - Listen to Chuck Swindoll - Insight for Living Radio Online
Dr. Walter Martin - https://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/martin_walter/
Dr. Ben Haden - Why
Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost - Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost (1915–2014) -
Dr. Dave Hunt - https://www.thebereancall.org/
Eliezer Urbach, associated with Jews for Jesus - http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/realtime/october-2009/09
As well as the Pastors of Churches that I attended; Pastor Neil Berry and Pastor Gordan Broadbent especially.
John 8:58 (NKJV)
[SUP]58 [/SUP] Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
Colossians 1:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
John 17:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with that glory I had with Youbefore the world existed.
Isaiah 43:10 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
Isaiah 43:11 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.
Luke 2:11 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Today a Savior, who is Messiah the Lord, was born for you in the city of David.
John 14:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, “Have I been among you all this time without your knowing Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
1. NOW, GIVE US A STRAIGHT ANSWER, "Do you believe Jesus is Yahweh?
How about we let the Cat out of the bag, and shoot straight with each other.
2. WHAT DENOMINATION DO YOU CALL HOME?
3. CAN YOU PLEASE POST A DOCTRINAL STATEMENT OF FAITH THAT YOU AGREE WITH?
4. WHO ARE THE BIBLE TEACHERS THAT HAD THE MOST INFLUENCE ON WHAT YOU BELIEVE TODAY?
><>t<><
HERE ARE MY ANSWERS TO MY ANSWERS TO THOSE SAME QUESTIONS:
1. Yes I absolutely BELIEVE that THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT are the ONE AND ONLY GOD WHO EXISTS, WHO IS KNOWN AS YAHWEH.
2. Since I was born again the last week of December 1977, most of the Churches that I have attended (we moved a lot) have been non-denomination Community Bible Churches. If I was to classify myself, I would have to say I am a very conservative Evangelical type of Christian.
3. The teaching radio program that I first started listening to after I was born again was "Grace to You", by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. He is also Senior Pastor at Grace Community Church and President of the Master's College and Seminary in L.A. Here is a link to the Doctrinal Statement of Faith from "Grace To You", which I agree with mostly, except they failed to pick up on the fact that the word Church, was actually the ASSEMBLY in the Greek Language, and therefore began with Adam, and continues to be built by our Messiah to the last person Martyred in the Great Tribulation:
http://www.gty.org/connect/doctrine
I also have a great deal in common with this Messianic Congregation's Statement of Faith:
Statement of Faith - Messianic Jewish Online
4. These are the Theologians who have had the most influence on my spiritual growth:
Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. - Grace to You sermons dating back to the early 70s - free to listen to.
Dr. Adrian Rogers - Listen to Adrian Rogers - Love Worth Finding Radio Online
Dr. Charles Stanley - http://www.intouch.org/
Dr. Richard Lee - First Redeemer Church | Duluth | Cumming | Alpharetta
Dr. Zola Levitt - ZLM Video: “Passover/Unleavened Bread” - some free - videos
Dr. Ed Young - http://www.winningwalk.org/t-bio.aspx
Dr. Gil Rugh - http://www.ihcc.org/ - free sermons dating back to the late 70s - free
Dr. Chuck Swindoll - Listen to Chuck Swindoll - Insight for Living Radio Online
Dr. Walter Martin - https://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/martin_walter/
Dr. Ben Haden - Why
Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost - Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost (1915–2014) -
Dr. Dave Hunt - https://www.thebereancall.org/
Eliezer Urbach, associated with Jews for Jesus - http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/realtime/october-2009/09
As well as the Pastors of Churches that I attended; Pastor Neil Berry and Pastor Gordan Broadbent especially.
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Somebody already has been doing that:
THERE ARE - 29 million baptized Christians in China, counting their unbaptized children, 35 million.
THERE ARE - 27.8 million followers, and Christianity is India's third-largest religion according to the census of 2011.
THERE ARE - 380 million Christians in Africa. In 1900, there were 9 million Christians in Africa. But by 2000, there were 380 million Christians.
As of the early 21st century, Christianity has approximately 2.4 billion adherents, out of about 7.2 billion people.
My favorite Christian GOSPEL Singer is Emmy Kosgei from Kenya, Africa.
[video=youtube;4L7WCRx1TRI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L7WCRx1TRI[/video]
THERE ARE - 29 million baptized Christians in China, counting their unbaptized children, 35 million.
THERE ARE - 27.8 million followers, and Christianity is India's third-largest religion according to the census of 2011.
THERE ARE - 380 million Christians in Africa. In 1900, there were 9 million Christians in Africa. But by 2000, there were 380 million Christians.
As of the early 21st century, Christianity has approximately 2.4 billion adherents, out of about 7.2 billion people.
My favorite Christian GOSPEL Singer is Emmy Kosgei from Kenya, Africa.
[video=youtube;4L7WCRx1TRI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L7WCRx1TRI[/video]
I agree, can't understand a word, but the words are on the screen in English, and her singing blesses my soul. As far as I am concerned, that Lady can lead the singing all the way to Heaven, when our Bridegroom sends the Archangel ahead to CALL OUT OF EARTH the Sum Total of the Bride, including Adam. We will be in our resurrected Glorified bodies like HIS, the 144,000 Jews will be sealed from harm in their mortal bodies to repopulate Israel in the Kingdom, and THE REST..............Well, let's say it is not going to be pretty.
Revelation 14:9-11 (GW)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Another angel, a third one, followed them, and said in a loud voice, “Whoever worships the beast or its statue, whoever is branded on his forehead or his hand,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] will drink the wine of God's fury, which has been poured unmixed into the cup of God's anger. Then he will be tortured by fiery sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the lamb.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] The smoke from their torture will go up forever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast or its statue, or for anyone branded with its name.”
Revelation 19:11-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then I saw heaven opened, and there was a white horse. Its rider is called Faithful and True, and He judges and makes war in righteousness.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] His eyes were like a fiery flame, and many crowns were on His head. He had a name written that no one knows except Himself.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] He wore a robe stained with blood, and His name is the Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The armies that were in heaven followed Him on white horses, wearing pure white linen.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] A sharp sword came from His mouth, so that He might strike the nations with it. He will shepherd them with an iron scepter. He will also trample the winepress of the fierce anger of God, the Almighty.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh: KING OF KINGSAND LORD OF LORDS.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel standing on the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice, saying to all the birds flying high overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] so that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of their riders, and the flesh of everyone, both free and slave, small and great.”
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Then I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and against His army.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But the beast was taken prisoner, and along with him the false prophet, who had performed the signs in his presence. He deceived those who accepted the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image with these signs. Both of them were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]The rest were killed with the sword that came from the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Revelation 20:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 21:8 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But the (unrepentant) cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
Revelation 20:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Romans 1:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
Revelation 14:9-11 (GW)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Another angel, a third one, followed them, and said in a loud voice, “Whoever worships the beast or its statue, whoever is branded on his forehead or his hand,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] will drink the wine of God's fury, which has been poured unmixed into the cup of God's anger. Then he will be tortured by fiery sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the lamb.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] The smoke from their torture will go up forever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast or its statue, or for anyone branded with its name.”
Revelation 19:11-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then I saw heaven opened, and there was a white horse. Its rider is called Faithful and True, and He judges and makes war in righteousness.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] His eyes were like a fiery flame, and many crowns were on His head. He had a name written that no one knows except Himself.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] He wore a robe stained with blood, and His name is the Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The armies that were in heaven followed Him on white horses, wearing pure white linen.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] A sharp sword came from His mouth, so that He might strike the nations with it. He will shepherd them with an iron scepter. He will also trample the winepress of the fierce anger of God, the Almighty.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh: KING OF KINGSAND LORD OF LORDS.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel standing on the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice, saying to all the birds flying high overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] so that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of their riders, and the flesh of everyone, both free and slave, small and great.”
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Then I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and against His army.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But the beast was taken prisoner, and along with him the false prophet, who had performed the signs in his presence. He deceived those who accepted the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image with these signs. Both of them were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]The rest were killed with the sword that came from the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Revelation 20:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 21:8 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But the (unrepentant) cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
Revelation 20:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Romans 1:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
The Earth was populated by Adam and Eve and their Children who walked with God. After the flood the Earth was populated by Noah and his children who walked with God.
What you are teaching is not from God but is from Satan. Its Satan who said to you that people in other countries did not know about God. Its Satan who is using you to fight against God. And it is Satan who right now is controlling what you believe.
You talk about a pre-Christ era. Jesus is the Son of God. The "I AM" in the O.T. is the son of God.
Its the Son of God who created everything and its the Son of God who has revealed Himself to everybody who was born since the beginning.
I see no Indwelling of the Holy Spirit in you. This is because i see no Love in you for the Son of God who is Jesus. All i see is your hatred for God. Its you hate that has blinded your eyes to seeing the Truth about God.
God HAS revealed Himself to every single person ever who has been born. But because of their sins most reject God and i do believe you have rejected God. How can one be filled with the Holy Spirit and teach the lies you teach? They cannot!
Repent organicbeastand accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior so you too can enter into Heaven with the rest of us True Christians!
What you are teaching is not from God but is from Satan. Its Satan who said to you that people in other countries did not know about God. Its Satan who is using you to fight against God. And it is Satan who right now is controlling what you believe.
You talk about a pre-Christ era. Jesus is the Son of God. The "I AM" in the O.T. is the son of God.
Its the Son of God who created everything and its the Son of God who has revealed Himself to everybody who was born since the beginning.
I see no Indwelling of the Holy Spirit in you. This is because i see no Love in you for the Son of God who is Jesus. All i see is your hatred for God. Its you hate that has blinded your eyes to seeing the Truth about God.
God HAS revealed Himself to every single person ever who has been born. But because of their sins most reject God and i do believe you have rejected God. How can one be filled with the Holy Spirit and teach the lies you teach? They cannot!
Repent organicbeastand accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior so you too can enter into Heaven with the rest of us True Christians!
Yes, I too noticed all the Stained Glass, but even when I was just a kid, the little white country Church we went to, had GORGEOUS stained glass BIBLE STORY PICTURES in every window, all 9 of them counting the little round one above the cross. It would seat about a hundred people shoulder to shoulder in the pews, I mean it was a little Church. Emmy married the Pastor of Revival Cathedral Assembly at Ogba, Nigeria (pop. 280,000), on August 31, 2013. I can only assume that is the Church.
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It does not matter orangicbeast if people 5000 years ago did not know about God. In fact it does not matter if anybody today does not know about God.
God created everything. God is real. The Son of God, Jesus, is real and all those who accept Him by Faith that He is God will have Eternal life with Jesus.
All those today who reject that Jesus is God will spend all Eternity in the Lake of Fire.
Now that you have read this you are without excuse. Its all about you organicbeast. Have you accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior? If you have then you will spend Eternity with God, If you have rejected Him then its the Lake of Fire for you.
You have no excuse for not accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. God judges you for what you have done. God does not look at others to see if they knew God or not. He looks into your Heart only. Therefore you cannot use the excuse of others not knowing Him to excuse your not accepting Jesus!
You will be held accountable organicbeast.
God created everything. God is real. The Son of God, Jesus, is real and all those who accept Him by Faith that He is God will have Eternal life with Jesus.
All those today who reject that Jesus is God will spend all Eternity in the Lake of Fire.
Now that you have read this you are without excuse. Its all about you organicbeast. Have you accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior? If you have then you will spend Eternity with God, If you have rejected Him then its the Lake of Fire for you.
You have no excuse for not accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. God judges you for what you have done. God does not look at others to see if they knew God or not. He looks into your Heart only. Therefore you cannot use the excuse of others not knowing Him to excuse your not accepting Jesus!
You will be held accountable organicbeast.
That is just incredible news Ken! I didn't know God was revealing himself to India, China, Africa and every single nation in the corners of the Earth like how He did with Israel. Wow! Thanks for those glad tidings, with no evidence.
Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
I am just exceedingly glad that you have successfully overcome your entire natural/carnal mind and you certainly seem worthy of that hidden manna that Christ promised to those who overcome! [Rev 2:17] Kudos to you!
Glad tidings again but with no evidence
Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
I am just exceedingly glad that you have successfully overcome your entire natural/carnal mind and you certainly seem worthy of that hidden manna that Christ promised to those who overcome! [Rev 2:17] Kudos to you!
Glad tidings again but with no evidence
Hey Paul,
Did you know besides getting burned in the Lake of Fire, you can also be susceptible to being raped for all eternity? Like I mean seriously for all eternity!!!
There is this woman that went to Hell and was raped by demons there. So, its some realllll scary spooky stuff. Getting tortured and also raped for all eternity in Hell!!! Scarrrrry!!
Here is the video: Peniel Ngonde – Raped in hell by Demons | Believe it or not
Check it out and let me know what you think.. Interesting stuff!
Did you know besides getting burned in the Lake of Fire, you can also be susceptible to being raped for all eternity? Like I mean seriously for all eternity!!!
There is this woman that went to Hell and was raped by demons there. So, its some realllll scary spooky stuff. Getting tortured and also raped for all eternity in Hell!!! Scarrrrry!!
Here is the video: Peniel Ngonde – Raped in hell by Demons | Believe it or not
Check it out and let me know what you think.. Interesting stuff!
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I agree, however I would have worded the question:
Organicbeast, have you accepted Jesus as LORD (which means MASTER), so that HE becomes your Savior?
The reason I always word it that way, is that the majority of people want a SAVIOR,
but VERY FEW want a LORD (which means MASTER), who will RULE over their lives.
Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are manywho go through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
Matthew 7:22-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that daymanywill say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you!
(That inner personal LOVE relationship that comes when the Holy Spirit enters the heart,
enabling one to lovingly submit to and receive Jesus as Lord. Ref: Rom. 5:5.)
Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
Luke 13:23-24 (NRSV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Someone asked him, "Lord, will only a few be saved?" He said to them,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able.
I am absolutely convinced that the MANY going thru the Broad Gate, want HIM to SAVE them, but they want to REMAIN lord and master of their own lives. HENCE willing submission to HIS LORDSHIP, is their stumbling block. Some will scream "THAT'S WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS", but I say NO, that is a work of the HOLY SPIRIT, and without HIM, you cannot receive and submit to Jesus Christ as LORD (meaning MASTER), OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM.
I am equally convinced that basic Salvation Verses support this position:
John 1:12 (NRSV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God,
RECEIVED HIM AS WHAT ? ? ?
Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,
Romans 10:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess (NOT JUST PROFESS IT, you have to actually have received Him as LORD in your heart before you can say it as a CONFESSION) with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
(NOTICE, that verse says He doesn't becomes your SAVIOR until AFTER you have willingly out of LOVE for HIM, submitted to and RECEIVED HIM as LORD, (which means MASTER), and then verbally confessed HIM to be your LORD; THEN HE BECOMES YOUR SAVIOR. I repeat, NO ONE CAN DO THAT WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT ALREADY BEING IN YOUR HEART. It is a WORK of the Holy Spirit, not something we do out of our own abilities to get ourselves saved.)
NOW look at verse 10 and Eph. 2:8 to validate that interpretation:
Romans 10:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not from works, so that no one can boast.
That is why I always refrain from saying "Receive JESUS as your Savior", because He becomes your Savior ONLY after you have RECEIVED HIM AS LORD. I think all the people on the Broad Road to the DESTRUCTION of HELL, think they already have received JESUS AS SAVIOR; when in reality they NEVER came thru the Narrow Gate of RECEIVING JESUS AS LORD. I do not think pagans and unbelievers are even mentioned in the Parable of Gates. ALL THE MANY, REALLY THINK THEY ARE CHRISTIANS. THIS is what they missed:
Romans 5:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
That happens the very MOMENT the Holy Spirit enters one's heart, that LOVE OF GOD, enables us to BELIEVE, Submit to, and Receive Jesus as LORD, thereby becoming SAVED.
Organicbeast, have you accepted Jesus as LORD (which means MASTER), so that HE becomes your Savior?
The reason I always word it that way, is that the majority of people want a SAVIOR,
but VERY FEW want a LORD (which means MASTER), who will RULE over their lives.
Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are manywho go through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
Matthew 7:22-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that daymanywill say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you!
(That inner personal LOVE relationship that comes when the Holy Spirit enters the heart,
enabling one to lovingly submit to and receive Jesus as Lord. Ref: Rom. 5:5.)
Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
Luke 13:23-24 (NRSV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Someone asked him, "Lord, will only a few be saved?" He said to them,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able.
I am absolutely convinced that the MANY going thru the Broad Gate, want HIM to SAVE them, but they want to REMAIN lord and master of their own lives. HENCE willing submission to HIS LORDSHIP, is their stumbling block. Some will scream "THAT'S WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS", but I say NO, that is a work of the HOLY SPIRIT, and without HIM, you cannot receive and submit to Jesus Christ as LORD (meaning MASTER), OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM.
I am equally convinced that basic Salvation Verses support this position:
John 1:12 (NRSV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God,
RECEIVED HIM AS WHAT ? ? ?
Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,
Romans 10:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess (NOT JUST PROFESS IT, you have to actually have received Him as LORD in your heart before you can say it as a CONFESSION) with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
(NOTICE, that verse says He doesn't becomes your SAVIOR until AFTER you have willingly out of LOVE for HIM, submitted to and RECEIVED HIM as LORD, (which means MASTER), and then verbally confessed HIM to be your LORD; THEN HE BECOMES YOUR SAVIOR. I repeat, NO ONE CAN DO THAT WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT ALREADY BEING IN YOUR HEART. It is a WORK of the Holy Spirit, not something we do out of our own abilities to get ourselves saved.)
NOW look at verse 10 and Eph. 2:8 to validate that interpretation:
Romans 10:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not from works, so that no one can boast.
That is why I always refrain from saying "Receive JESUS as your Savior", because He becomes your Savior ONLY after you have RECEIVED HIM AS LORD. I think all the people on the Broad Road to the DESTRUCTION of HELL, think they already have received JESUS AS SAVIOR; when in reality they NEVER came thru the Narrow Gate of RECEIVING JESUS AS LORD. I do not think pagans and unbelievers are even mentioned in the Parable of Gates. ALL THE MANY, REALLY THINK THEY ARE CHRISTIANS. THIS is what they missed:
Romans 5:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
That happens the very MOMENT the Holy Spirit enters one's heart, that LOVE OF GOD, enables us to BELIEVE, Submit to, and Receive Jesus as LORD, thereby becoming SAVED.
Good point
Very nice, but not so nice if the human soul says: "Lord, what if don't accept you as my Lord and savior?" The consequences of that are quite drastic. Worse than any fascist leader on this Earth. Torture and Rape for all eternity in Hell. But, If I agree and accept the Lord Jesus Christ I will not face punishment. And again if I don't - torture and rape will resume for eternity again. You understand my point VCO? The problem with your theology and doctrine?
What would be the fate of Gandhi? According to VCO: It would be torture and rape in Hell for eternity!
Very nice, but not so nice if the human soul says: "Lord, what if don't accept you as my Lord and savior?" The consequences of that are quite drastic. Worse than any fascist leader on this Earth. Torture and Rape for all eternity in Hell. But, If I agree and accept the Lord Jesus Christ I will not face punishment. And again if I don't - torture and rape will resume for eternity again. You understand my point VCO? The problem with your theology and doctrine?
What would be the fate of Gandhi? According to VCO: It would be torture and rape in Hell for eternity!
