Is Eternal Security Conditional or Unconditional?

[Grace777x70]

Well actually, Grace777x70 believes that you can live after the flesh and still be saved. He has said so openly, but I suspect that anyone who follows Free Grace/Hyper Grace doctrine closely believes the same because that is what it teaches. Gr8grace is another who has said that he believes that a person can apostatize and still be saved.

So if you do not believe these things, then you are not in agreement with them.

None of us is telling people to go and sin all you want just because we are in grace. We have said this at least over 100x times that if we teach grace then the people can have dominion over sin in their lives. Grace teaches us how to live godly in this life.

Answer the question below so that we understand what "living after the flesh" looks like in real life:

Let's look at this sin business for a bit. Slander is just as much a sin as fornication. ( Gal. 5 )

So, let's say someone has been slandering other people for years. All of a sudden they die...does this one that was slandering people now not go to heaven?...in your thinking they would go to hell because they have been "living after the flesh"?

Or what about gluttony which is a sin - what if someone has a battle with overeating all the time and they die - do they go to hell because they were not able to overcome this as this is "living after the flesh" too?

These 2 scenarios above would be people "living in the flesh" and as you call being a servant to sin ( even though they are free in Christ but don't know it yet and haven't gown up in the Lord enough spiritually to overcome them ).

These 2 groups of people in your theology would not be children of God and thus go to hell..is that right?

 

[Grace777x70]

However Paul preached sin and what it was and is and we need that now more than ever.

Sorry brother - I have to disagree. Paul preached Christ to those that had sin. He told them what sin looked like but he preached Christ as only He is the answer for sin. I don't believe that God is an evangelical in that He is obsessed with sin - He is obsessed with His Son who took away sin.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Sorry brother - I have to disagree. Paul preached Christ to those that had sin. He told them what sin looked like but he preached Christ as only He is the answer for sin. I don't believe that God is an evangelical in that He is obsessed with sin - He is obsessed with His Son who took away sin.

Hmm, but what held Him Captive?

 

[B1Davanda]

Well, PilgrimsPaster spent a whole lot of time in post #491 proving nothing but that she is a very vindictive and bitter woman, and I see the sadness there in a way I didn't before.
I don't expect she'll ever give a clear direct answer until she settles some deep-seated issues that have nothing to do with this website.

That's my conclusion based on many posts, but clearly evidenced in #491.
I will pray again for her, and ask for others to do so as well.

But many others have ALSO chosen to ignore my questions.....AGAIN,
as I'm finding they often do when challenged to defend their message of gloom and doom.

I'll try again, but if I continue to get ignored, it only goes to show their true colors ... shall we say, lemonish?

Again, those like Grace7s, mailmandan, JGIG, ladylynn, always seem to give a message of hope and joy when discussing salvation, eternal security, etc.,
that Jesus paid it all and we can rejoice in Him because our eternity is secure in Him, and they seem motivated to share that good news with others.

But HRFD and company always seem to have a negative message that leaves the reader with uncertainty, feeling like we haven't done enough or obeyed enough or followed the proceedure as they outline it, and therefore have no right to claim salvation, and call ourselves and each other Sons and Daughters, Brothers and Sisters in Christ, and rejoice in so great a salvation, and I would like to know from them what they're motivated by, to present such a message of uncertainty, and why they are so opposed to others who want to rejoice together because they are saved.

 

[Grace777x70]

However Paul preached sin and what it was and is and we need that now more than ever.

My time was up as I was adding to my post. I do agree that those that are openly defying good moral principals need to be dealt with by those in authority to give them a chance to repent - like those gay people saying they are pastors that you mentioned.

 

[RobbyEarl]

I would not have known sin unless the commandment had said "you shall not covet". I would have not known not to covet.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

None of us is telling people to go and sin all you want just because we are in grace. We have said this at least over 100x times that if we teach grace then the people can have dominion over sin in their lives. Grace teaches us how to live godly in this life.

No one that I know of is saying that you tell people to go and sin.

 

[Grace777x70]

No one that I know of is saying that you tell people to go and sin.

Thank you for your honesty. It shows good character being manifested in you.


Could you answer the question below so that we understand what "living after the flesh" looks like in real life:

Let's look at this sin business for a bit. Slander is just as much a sin as fornication. ( Gal. 5 )

So, let's say someone has been slandering other people for years. All of a sudden they die...does this one that was slandering people now not go to heaven?...in your thinking they would go to hell because they have been "living after the flesh"?

Or what about gluttony which is a sin - what if someone has a battle with overeating all the time and they die - do they go to hell because they were not able to overcome this as this is "living after the flesh" too?

These 2 scenarios above would be people "living after the flesh" and as some call being a servant to sin ( even though they are free in Christ but don't know it yet and haven't gown up in the Lord enough spiritually to overcome them ).

These 2 groups of people in your theology would not be children of God and thus go to hell..is that right?

 

[RobbyEarl]

Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

 

[RobbyEarl]

1 Corinthians 6

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[Grace777x70]

Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Great scriptures....is that in Galatians?..opps..I just saw you post 1 Cor. 6.,,maybe it will let me add this..

They were talked about earlier in the thread here..

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...conditional-unconditional-18.html#post2632671

 

[RobbyEarl]

I would not have known to put the clothes back on the rack that I knocked off unless Mama slapped me or the Holy Spirit told me.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Thank you for your honesty. It shows good character being manifested in you.

It's the same character I've always had. I've never said that you tell people to go sin.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Okay i is done for tonight, got to put my boots on in the A.M.. Love all of yall in Christ even so come Lord come.

 

[Grace777x70]

I would not have known to put the clothes back on the rack that I knocked off unless Mama slapped me or the Holy Spirit told me.

LOL...Here is what my mama should have told me...

 

[Grace777x70]

It's the same character I've always had. I've never said that you tell people to go sin.

Could you answer the question below so that we understand what "living after the flesh" looks like in real life:

Let's look at this sin business for a bit. Slander is just as much a sin as fornication. ( Gal. 5 )

So, let's say someone has been slandering other people for years. All of a sudden they die...does this one that was slandering people now not go to heaven?...in your thinking they would go to hell because they have been "living after the flesh"?

Or what about gluttony which is a sin - what if someone has a battle with overeating all the time and they die - do they go to hell because they were not able to overcome this as this is "living after the flesh" too?

These 2 scenarios above would be people "living after the flesh" and as some call being a servant to sin ( even though they are free in Christ but don't know it yet and haven't gown up in the Lord enough spiritually to overcome them ).

These 2 groups of people in your theology would not be children of God and thus go to hell..is that right?

 

[Grace777x70]

Okay i is done for tonight, got to put my boots on in the A.M.. Love all of yall in Christ even so come Lord come.

Have a good rest brother....and remember....no singing to the Lord in the dark while you are in bed.....LOL..love ya' man!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Could you answer the question below so that we understand what "living after the flesh" looks like in real life:

Let's look at this sin business for a bit. Slander is just as much a sin as fornication. ( Gal. 5 )

So, let's say someone has been slandering other people for years. All of a sudden they die...does this one that was slandering people now not go to heaven?...in your thinking they would go to hell because they have been "living after the flesh"?

Or what about gluttony which is a sin - what if someone has a battle with overeating all the time and they die - do they go to hell because they were not able to overcome this as this is "living after the flesh" too?

These 2 scenarios above would be people "living after the flesh" and as some call being a servant to sin ( even though they are free in Christ but don't know it yet and haven't gown up in the Lord enough spiritually to overcome them ).

These 2 groups of people in your theology would not be children of God and thus go to hell..is that right?

No, I'm not going to answer your question. If you don't know what living after the flesh is, you've got a real problem, and I can't help you. Also, this idiotic fixation that have on slander is just annoying. IMO you think anyone who disagrees with you and doesn't validate your beliefs is slandering you. That IMO is just passive aggressive slander on your part.

 

[jasonj]

No one that I know of is saying that you tell people to go and sin.

its the chicken and the egg. which came first?....The Truth is .....God created them both, one, through the other.

there is a difference, in saying " you tell people to go sin all they want because of Grace"

and ommiting the vast amounts of obedience scripture, to support a doctrine as the truth.

If a doctrine, ANY doctrine tries to say Jesus ways, words, teachings is not correct, or will not SAVE anyone. the doctrine is false.

there is a huge difference. if I say " Gods Grace has saved me, all I need to do is believe I'm saved, rest, don't DO anything"

and saying," I'm saved By Grace, and Grace teaches us to obey the Lord and He commands obedience and in fact warns of Hell for the disobedient"

One doctrine is complete and true, the other omits the truth, and will never lead to obedience. if I preach Grace alone, which has truth, BUT do not teach what Grace is in full, the hearer of this, will be lead AWAY from obedience."

A person doesn't have to say " don't obey"....to be saying " don't obey"

sorry to butt in on yall.....Just thought it may add a thought.

 

[tooldtocare]

"Eternal Security" is a myth
It doesn't really exist in the real world
Don't you agree-?

Check your box below
{ } Yes
{ } No

Or do nothing. The choice is yours alone to make.
Please check the appropriate box

Thanks in advance -